Printable View
Hi everybody I know I am really young and don't know much but I just sold my Javelin AMX. and want to build a rat rod. I am not doing this to be aprat of some fad. I just like the raw mean and agressive look of the rat rod and its got balls. But I would like to do things right and I want to do it like it was originally done back in the day. So if anybody has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate for I am not sure where to start.
Well, first of all, we are mad at you for being young, and we aren't.:D :D :D
Welcome to the forum. I'm exactly like you (except you are young :mad: :mad: ) I like some of the "back to basics, raw, plain" elements of the rat rod cars. I have seen some that really stop me in my tracks and make me want to take a good look at them. The creativitiy some display is refreshing.
You are being very smart in your approach in wanting the car to be built well. The ill feelings many of us on here share about some rat rods is that the owners have built a piece of unsafe crap and don't give a darned about that fact. We simply can't condone building a car that represents all of us rodders that might hurt or kill someone, especially some innocent bystander.
Now to get back to your original question, how to go about it. That is a very tough question, especially when you enter into the mix that you are young. The reason for that is because building a car takes some experience, but also a fair amount of money and equipment. You may possess these, but most young people have not accumulated either of these elements yet. Another thing that complicates it is that the term rat rod has been attached to everything from fenderless model T's to 5 year old Buicks that are primered. I may be thinking fenderless hot rod, and you are thinking '56 Oldsmobile.
What is your ideal rat rod? That is something we have to know first. A great way to get started is to buy someone elses almost finished car and make some changes to it to make it your own. You stand a better chance of getting one on the road if you start with more than chalk marks on the garage floor.
Finally, there is no way this first rod will be your IDEAL car. It never is. All of us are already planning our next car, or the next 2 or 3 cars. What I am saying is compromise a little on this first one and use the experience to go on from there.
Good luck,
Don
PS: I just noticed the portion of your question about how it was done "back in the day." That seems to be what rat rodders feel they are capturing with their cars today. Some of the things they do are correct, and some never existed. I don't remember one car that had license plates for floorboards, although one car I bought, a '33 roadster, had rear radius rods made from water pipe. Not a good thing. Bottom line is that some of the stuff we did in the early days was good and some was pretty shoddy. Even when I look back at some of the articles in magazines back then, the workmanship they did in those articles was pretty crude. The best rat rod would be a blend of a car that looks like it just rolled in from the 1956 salt flats, yet used modern components to make it safe and dependable.
I really like it when youngsters come into this hobby. I especially like it that you seem to have your head screwed on straight as to how you want to do it the right way. That's terrific.
Start in the spring............a rat rod (sic) and Wisconsin winters don't jive...................
thanx guys sorry about the being young part I was just born in the wrong era:D .
My ideal rat rod is like a for coupe or four door that as been chopped and lowered(but not always) and between the years of like 23-40. Fat tires in the back and thinner ones in the front. A V-8 with manual trans. I dont want something thats all cromed up and tricked out because I intend on driveing it everyday during the summer atleast during the winters I am away at college like I am now. But I figured I should start pulling some ideas together cause you never know where or when u might find something that is perfect. And money I don't have I work myt ass like everybody else. Tools I can use the local highschools and my paretns have a couple of friends who own repair shops and garages. As far as experience little but I am learning and am loving doing it.
Sounds more like your looking for a street rod than rat rod. But either one could be called the other.:confused: :confused: :confused:
Like Don's said Young isn't bad we'er just jelous
what is the difference? not trying to be a smartass.
Well I wish I could tell you because street rods are of just about every year up to 49 I think. Most are finished off custom interior chrome dripping off them skinnies in frount and wides out back. I think it is more what in beholder wants to call it. How many car shows have you been to.
A lot thats what my summers consist of.
Probably your best bet would be to just look around somemore till you see what you realy like I wouldn't get hung up on what (type)its called. When your ready theres more guys AND girls here to lend a helping hand. I thinkl Don said what ever you build it won't likely be your last. I couldn't tell you how many cars and trucks I've had. BUT THEN I'M NOT YOUNG ANYMORE:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
I know it won't be my last and that it won't be perfect. And if it was it owuld take all the fun out of it cuz then u can change things arround and experiment with different designs and ideas. Thank you very much guys.
You asked about the rat rod name vs the hot rod name. In the last couple of years this has become a very volatile subject. Most hot rodders resent their cars being called rat rods and see it as sort of an insult. What has caused this are the rat rods that are built badly and the attitudes of some rat rodders. Some of them like sticking our noses in it and generally having an "I don't give a d*** attitude."
That being said, rat rods do have their own style, and it is easy to tell one from a hot rod. I can't tell you the difference, but I know it when I see it.
If you are talking about a car that was built like they were done in the old days, you are more than likely talking about a traditional hot rod. It is just that now a days everything on wheels is being called a rat rod. Usually, the inexperienced are the ones doing this, and you just have to educate them when they make that mistake.
Don
I don't think anyone will disagree with this simple definition of a likely "rat rod":
If it's got shiney paint, it probably is not a rat.
If it has a flat, or faded finish it might be a rat.
If it is built with '50s influence, such as vintage parts, and pinstriping, it is very probable, that it's a rat.
If the owner has tattoos, or piercings, it is a 99% chance it's a rat.
The last 1% depends on the owner's description of "said vehicle". :-)~
shiney paint and chrome mean nothing to me. its all about whether or not the car will go. i want that kinda essence that it will eat a lil forgien 4 cylinder like its nothing. I like the power that a motor puts it just give me that indescribeable feeling.
I think Budget is the first place to start. How many coins you would like to spend on this project or the initial cost of body may answer many "what kind of car to build" questions. But keep in mind, one of Hot Rods top 10 cars of the year is a Rat Rod with less than 6K invested this year.
yes i did ask what a rat rod was i am only 18 and cars are what i love i just wanted to know if there was an actual difference or if it was a difference in opinion but i see that you guys are very intense about such things cars are cars guys and they are meant to be driven i don't care what kinda they or what motor they have or how rare they are. these things were built to be driven and beat up by the american buyer and i just want people to go back to that and i want cares to have style and big motors again. wanna be able to distinguish between companies with out a doubt once again but I know that day may never come or atleast not in my life time.
really one of the top ten was built with less than 6k where would i find a pic or article about this car?
Check out this months Hot Rod Magazene. A Rat ,2 gassers, and a plain jane (on the out side) Sleeper among the top ten. What comes around goes around.
alright thank you very much. because I can't really afford to spend a ton and like to drive my cars and it will be a dailly driver in the summer time.
I think some of the fenderless VW rats are going to be the cheapest to build and maintain as a driver. The choped top gives it a real old car look. May not be everyones cup of tea, but then again none of these things are ;)
dont forget to tell them how some of the hot rodders treat the rat rodder , reading through these threads should be evident . listen theres bad attitude on both sides . one thing i do agree with you on is back in the day they should never go there totally different thing .Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
Hot rodders treat rat rodders decent as long as the rat rodder dosn't have the I don't give a crap attitude, and build cars with inadaquate brakes/ other safty standards. If it's all good and safe ( front and rear brakes in working order, good solid floor, no craftsmen wrench pitman arms ect... ), I don't see a problem with them.
The car is going to end up a dailly driver in the summer months of wisocnsin (if we get them:-)) so its going to be safe. And my back in the day part was that I want it to be hard and mean looking I don't want a shinny show peice or a shinny car at all for that matter. Also is it cheaper to find parts out of a junkyard or ebay?
Well, as bad as Ebay can be in some respects, in another respect we could not build the old timey rods we do without it. Until Ebay came along, we knew someone somewhere had some obsolete part we were looking for, but how do you find that person? When Ebay came along all of a sudden garages and attics started giving up tons of hard-to-find parts that you might only find at a swap meet, if you were lucky.
Since I only build '50's style cars, I was in heaven when I started seeing parts like Oldsmobile starter switchover housings, 6 carb intakes, Buick finned brake drums, etc. suddenly become available. Before that I had to hit lots of swap meets and dig around under piles of parts to find that one special item.
Where the junkyard will come in for you is for more contemporary parts like transmissions, rear ends, etc. that you might find on Ebay, but that the shipping costs would kill you on. Also, chances of you finding old time parts in a junkyard are really slim if not impossible. So you will use Ebay for some stuff and junkyards for other parts.
Tip on Ebay. Do not be in any hurry to buy the first one you see. Wait, and another one will show up maybe with a different heading that makes it less seen, and the price will be much better. I rarely buy something on Ebay unless it is a real deal, and I look under obscure headings.
Consider also buying someone's unwanted project. The seller never gets out of it what he has invested in it, or what it would cost you to duplicate it. You just have to be sure that what you are buying is basically sound and has good construction that you can build off of.
Don
If you want a metal rod your choice may be limited by what you can find. If you choose fiberglass because you want a specific model then the work will be different. The "easy" formula from 20 years ago was to buy a fenderless roadster body out of fiberglass like a '27 or '29 Ford roadster replica and just focus on building up the drive line using a boxed stock frame or a pair of side rails with an aftermarket X-frame. That may still be the cheapest way to go unless you do happen to find some old metal car. However, as fiberglass bodies got more detailed it seems that everyone wants a '32 roadster or some other 'glass body which has more features than just a roadster. Back to the metal car approach, you can probably still find some older junk yards with early non-Ford metal bodies but the chances of finding a metal early Ford are very low since they have been bought up by rodders and restorers long ago. You can still find such cars for sale in Hemmings Motor News but the prices will be high even for rusted hulks. Overall for a cheap approach I kind of like the Speedway '27 or a fenderless '29 from one of the several 'glass mfgrs. Then again if you have cold winters a coupe is a lot more attractive and you will have to look for a more expensive 'glass coupe. Another approach is to find an early VW sedan and add a Socal front end and then look around for a Corvair flat six to put in the rear of the VW. I have purchased quite a few parts from Speedway and maybe you should take a look at their '27 roadster kit, but having said that I would warn you that the Speedway stuff "can" work but requires some careful thought and/or experience to make good use of the parts. A case in point is that I bought the Speedway stainless brake line kit and it is all good stuff, but that did not make me good at bending stainless tubing! (Maybe if I did it three more times I would get good at it.) There are many approaches to starting a low buck rod project but in the long run it will get expensive unless you are very lucky finding bargains. Another approach is to get something that runs but can be worked on over a long time period (years!). You might be surprised by people who have owned a typical '40 Ford coupe for over 50 years or more! With that kind of long term perspective you can make gradual changes and space out the cost.
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
thanx guys. I over the last couple of years with my Javelin have realized that a project is never complete until you die because you always have new ideas that you wanna put in it. And thanx for the tips about the obscure headings on ebay and I will have to dig deep in the junk yards back home and out here in colorado for parts and bodys. I recently had an idea for a gas tank but im not sure if it would work or not or if it would be safe. I want to take a keg that at one point had beer in it and make it into a gas tank. what do you guys think?
theres a thread on here somewhere about the keg idea, i plan on that to, im gonna set it in the trunk so it looks like i have beer there
yeah thats exactly what i was thinkin haha
how young we talking here, i'm 19 and half way through my fiberglass T and FYI i've dropped about $10,000 on it soo far and i still have stuff like interior to sort out aswell purchase a stronger welder.
i would suggest something like a fiberglass T, as the frames are straightforward, and the bodies can be found decently priced. case in point i picked up a frame and body for $100 a couple weeks ago.
and bout the rat rod thing, i started out building one, however that has totally changed once i realized that i want to build it to the best of my ability. believe me, it may not be perfect however everyone will respect you when you built it, and with the budget you had.