Attempt to explain part 2

Here`s my take on a issue that came up in a post ,some are wondering why the rat rodders seem so angry and defensive?well as i tried to explain before in my thread titled (attempt to explain) which is mysteriously not in the rat rod forum????:) the thought process behind our ways, 30 to 40 crowd . Well the way i see it ,the kids who are a little younger than us 15 to 25,who are now getting in the scene ,misunderstand our views on things,when they were little and influenced by us they saw when we were still angry little punk rockers causing trouble, so now they think that thats the way it still is, my little sister proves my point all the time,she`s 23 and angry as hell ,when me or my older sister try to stear her in a better direction in life she comes back at us with ,you guys used to do it, so i think that has alot to do with it. Denny has stated a couple of times that rat rods got labeled in the 80s ,which i think is a little early ,the articals ive read say the guy who claims the name started building muscle cars in the 80s, but did not get into hot rods until the 90s it was around 95 that rats started making a presence which is about the time i remember ,which puts the 15 to 25 guys at a very impressional age ,like denny has stated with us,we were misunderstanding the way you guys were

im in the 30-40 crowd. and even I am mixed up about what a ratrod should be, I remember Boyd coddington had explained what he thinks should be called a rat rod but if you look in magazines they may call just about anything a ratrod, whitch I thing tends to confusse people, and that maybe how the name calling get started. and some get offended by it,

from what I have drawn together a rat rod can be a little on the trashy side if your Poor, and different if your rich.

if I got things wrong then Im going to accept what others may say, but that wont help clear things up .

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Originally posted by hotroddaddy
well as i tried to explain before in my thread titled (attempt to explain) which is mysteriously not in the rat rod forum????:)

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Mod note

If the thread was not up on the radar, and nobody tells me it's about "Rat Rods", I do not know to move it to the new subforum.


it's here now :3dSMILE: :whacked: :3dSMILE:

Bill S.

Thanks bill ,i hope you did not think i was angry about it , Fordsfairlane dont feel bad this rat thing seems to confuse alot of people, i think its in the eye of the beholder,but we all agree anything built by boyd ,troy ,or foose is not a rat, i tried to start a thread on what peoples definition of a rat was but nobody replied

No harm, no foul, believe it or not, I can read between the lines.

daddy, if all the visiting self proclaimed rat rodders were as thoughtful and open minded as you I suspect there'd be less tension on threads of that subject. If you look at the "legacy" threads usually the first nasty salvo is fired by some ratter who's taken offense to any statement that doesn't proclaim rat rods as the only true symbolism of rodding. Honest opinion, perhaps disagreement, doesn't fly with them. Your comment about "anger" nails it pretty well. I made a similar comment in the "Death of Ratrods" thread in the first post, without your deeper insight and personal reference. As you've seen there are certain ratters that totally missed the point of it being a trend analysis piece, not a put down. It even references, in a very favorable light, a member who builds cars that generally fit the definition. The latest two new ratters even admitted in their hate posts that they read very little of what was posted, but that didn't keep them from blasting both barrels from their pea shooters.

As for nobody taking on your request to define the term rat rodder, most of the older hands here don't see the point anymore. Look at Hotrodpaint's recent post on "Street rod,......." definitions. There's too much anarchy to get complete agreement on the names, so it's easier to just let folks self define. Saying that, I'll go with what fairlane said, and it's consistent with the member reference I made in "Death.....", if it's trashy looking it's a rat rod, if it appears some attention to detail was lavished on the assembly, it's just a rod, traditional or otherwise. To me it has much less to do with primer, steel wheels, body style, etc. it all comes down to pride in workmanship, whatever level the builder has grown to.

Foose will be rolling out his P32 roadster at the Detroit Autorama the first week of March. He has stated it's intended to be a "tribute" car, something that might have been built by a returned WWII fighter pilot just after the war (thus the P designation, meaning Pursuit which is what that era fighter planes used). The paint will most likely be satin, maybe even camo, it'll probably have "bomber" seats, aircraft style gauges and so on. But it will be done to the highest level of craftsmanship that Foose has become known for. It'll be called a rat rod from here to Sunday..............but there's absolutely nothing about it that'll be ratty I'd bet.

Bob thanks for the nice words ,im glad to see ive reached a level of respect in your eyes ,ive also grown to respect your opinions your insight is well spoken and well thought out

the problem is that when people put there thoughts down you get attacked not just about a persons ratrod but personally attcked not just mildly. i can take s**t but when it starts attacking who you are thats bad. this is just a forum i could leave which im sure i will be told to by other members but im staying. i took everybodys s**t when i first got here theres a few i could give a s**t less about but thats fine to. A RATROD IS WHAT EVER YOU WANT IT TO BE . IT DOESNT TAKE A THREE PAGE THREAD TO EXPLAIN IT IF IT DOES THEN YOU BETTER FIND A DIFFERENT HOBBY

I think Gasser t makes a good point about some of the attacks that take place. Some people accuse rat rodders of thinking their cars are the only true hot rods, and yet take the position themselves that a rat can't be a hot rod at all.

How about this? What if we consider the fact the ALL of us are rebels to some degree, otherwise we would be all be driving stock SUV's. The reason we build these rolling pieces of art is so that we are different from every other guy sitting at the red light next to us. We are ALSO all artists, using steel as our canvas. Just as no 2 pieces are art are the same, no two cars are exactly the same. But that doesn't make one guy less of an artist than the other guy.

I like rats because they make me smile (different from laughing at the guys work) some of them are pretty clever and original. Also, they are refreshing, because rather than seeing the same old same old, you actually get to see some oddball engine or body not normally used. My currently under construction '39 Dodge with an Olds 394 is an example, For years I thought all hotrods had to be either a roadster or coupe. But I've chopped, channelled, and generally turned this Dodge into one that I won't ever see coming at me on the street. It makes me smile when I look at the pure badness of it. And it is well built and safe.

So that is my take on why we should all be a little more tolerant of the other guys who love this 4 wheel hobby as much as we do.

2nd subject: How do you guys post those pictures of your cars here? I am computer stupid, but I do have a digital camera, and am able to post pictures to ads on my ebay auctions. I just can't figure out how to get the pix out of my computer and onto this forum.

If you use the "Post Reply" radio button at the bottom right below the last post you'll be given a box to type in your response. Below that is another box for attachments. Hit the browse button to get to your hard drive files, double click the picture you want to post. There is a size limit so it would be best to make sure your pictures are somewhere around 650x500 give or take and they won't blast the page.

Thanks Bob. By the way, I enjoy your replys. You are obviously well educated and knowlegeable about many things car-wise.

Thank you for your kind words Don, but it's mostly a lot of years (or would that be miles?:D ) of curiosity and trying things.

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Originally posted by fordsfairlane
from what I have drawn together a rat rod can be a little on the trashy side if your Poor, and different if your rich.

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That's it in a nutshell! :toocool:

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Originally posted by califgrrrl
That's it in a nutshell! :toocool:

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that applies to everything.

hot rod.........rat rod
penthouse.........out house
pork "n" beans.............steake
working at hardees..........working for GM
riding a scooter...........driving a hog

well you get the pic. it's been times i was poor(i'm not rich now, but i'm not poor either)but when I didnt have the money to do what I wanted to do, i worked twice as hard to make it look good. being poor don't mean you have to have a junkie looking car. if you gonna drive a junkie looking car, then you're gonna have to put up with a certain amount of crap. to me if its well built it want look junkie. if the tail pipe is draging the road thats not art either. thats junkie.

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Originally posted by gasser t
the problem is that when people put there thoughts down you get attacked not just about a persons ratrod but personally attcked not just mildly. i can take s**t but when it starts attacking who you are thats bad. this is just a forum i could leave which im sure i will be told to by other members but im staying. i took everybodys s**t when i first got here theres a few i could give a s**t less about but thats fine to. A RATROD IS WHAT EVER YOU WANT IT TO BE . IT DOESNT TAKE A THREE PAGE THREAD TO EXPLAIN IT IF IT DOES THEN YOU BETTER FIND A DIFFERENT HOBBY

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Bob,

Your point was just made. :LOL:

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Originally posted by Henry Rifle
Bob,

Your point was just made. :LOL:

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thats not true

Question:

I am involved in both the bike and car hobbies. I heard the term "rat bike" first. Could this have been the possible source for the "rat rod" concept?

Is there a "United States Office Of American Slang" that keeps the official record of these things? :-)~ Maybe we should have one!

I just did a quick look on Google and there's about a bazillion options for "Dictionary of American Slang", both hard copy and online. One caution you may already know, online "collaborative" dictionaries rely on input from everyday sources so may be more error prone.

".....thats not true....."

Actually, gasser t you make the point for Bob and anyone else that is not particularly fond of rat rodders in almost every post you make.

There is confusion on what constitutes a rat rod, some people have actually written what they see as a Rat Rod. When you were asked you spouted some drivel".....high dollar defines its self. rat rod, work of art , self expression , integurity (dealing with people)....." as a definition. My definition of what a rat rod is listed in other posts, such as death to Rat Rods.

When someone doesn't agree with your point of view you resort to name calling (" biskit and gravy") and profanity, of course then your profess that someone else started it.

I will admit that your are one of the few of the rat rodders that posted a couple of pics of your car in your gallery, course the one that actually showed the car looks like it was taken 50 feet away. I also notice I do not see any pictures of the "..70 super bee(had since high school im 37) i got a 69 roadrunner, just sold my 72 cuda...." you say you have.

Besides yourself as a self professed rat rodder, there are others on this site who have cars/projects that are built on a Rat Rod theme (of course in a lot of cases I would not necessarily classify their cars as rat rods, but I use a lot stricter definition of the term). These gentleman and women actually articulate a point of view and respond to tech questions.

I won't attempt to speak for anyone else here, but personally, I enjoy a good tech discussion, bench racing, a debate on terms etc, and IMO this is one of the best automotive oriented sites on the net to do that. I even enjoy some of the rat rod post AS LONG AS THEY SOMETHING OF SUBSTANCE TO SAY.

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Originally posted by Mike P
".....thats not true....."

Actually, gasser t you make the point for Bob and anyone else that is not particularly fond of rat rodders in almost every post you make.

There is confusion on what constitutes a rat rod, some people have actually written what they see as a Rat Rod. When you were asked you spouted some drivel".....high dollar defines its self. rat rod, work of art , self expression , integurity (dealing with people)....." as a definition. My definition of what a rat rod is listed in other posts, such as death to Rat Rods.

When someone doesn't agree with your point of view you resort to name calling (" biskit and gravy") and profanity, of course then your profess that someone else started it.

I will admit that your are one of the few of the rat rodders that posted a couple of pics of your car in your gallery, course the one that actually showed the car looks like it was taken 50 feet away. I also notice I do not see any pictures of the "..70 super bee(had since high school im 37) i got a 69 roadrunner, just sold my 72 cuda...." you say you have.

Besides yourself as a self professed rat rodder, there are others on this site who have cars/projects that are built on a Rat Rod theme (of course in a lot of cases I would not necessarily classify their cars as rat rods, but I use a lot stricter definition of the term). These gentleman and women actually articulate a point of view and respond to tech questions.

I won't attempt to speak for anyone else here, but personally, I enjoy a good tech discussion, bench racing, a debate on terms etc, and IMO this is one of the best automotive oriented sites on the net to do that. I even enjoy some of the rat rod post AS LONG AS THEY SOMETHING OF SUBSTANCE TO SAY.

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there is that close enough, i suppose i could drive it better stop there . i dont make bobs point i make my point its a two way street . lets see in what you just wrote you called me a liar. i will post my other cars in do time. i m not confused on who i am or what a ratrod is. let see i was called a drug addict so in response i called him breakfast meal far cry from profanity he took it better then you. mikep i would say your confused on what a ratrod is and thats fine for me. my attitude on here was created here, from the time i got here people like you have tryed to turn it on me that i started it give me a brake if you have read through these forums as i have you wood see it the way i do.

Nope, just re-read my post, don't see the word liar anywhere in there :rolleyes:

As far as "my" definition I'm not confused at all, however I'm still waiting a "real" definition from you.

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Originally posted by Mike P
Nope, just re-read my post, don't see the word liar anywhere in there :rolleyes:

As far as "my" definition I'm not confused at all, however I'm still waiting a "real" definition from you.

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so what does YOU SAY YOU HAVE mean. You dont have to say the word to get the meaning

"......so what does YOU SAY YOU HAVE mean....."

Just part of a statement. Actually I do believe that you have the cars, I'm just curious as to wether their nice cars or just yard art rotting away.

Boys and girls, this is the second thread I've had to interject in today. If you can't fight nicely, then take it offline and do not drag the rest of the forum down with you.

Once again, enough said.

Bill S.

Jesus this is getting out hand ,im totaly a rat rodder ,but you rat guys are not helping our cause at all, if you just stop and really see what these guys are saying there not really bashing our scene , theyve made it clear that that the only concern they have is safety other than that they dont seem to mind us ,ive been working really hard here to explain in a intelligent fashion so these guys can understand and when people post stupid remarks it puts our cause ten steps back,and before i get accused of kissing ass i was an active skinhead for years and a member of the klan ,so i know a little something about stirring the pot in life ,ive ALSO LEARNED to think before you act if you ever expect someone to listen to what you have to say

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Originally posted by gasser t
there is that close enough, i suppose i could drive it better stop there . i dont make bobs point i make my point its a two way street . lets see in what you just wrote you called me a liar. i will post my other cars in do time. i m not confused on who i am or what a ratrod is. let see i was called a drug addict so in response i called him breakfast meal far cry from profanity he took it better then you. mikep i would say your confused on what a ratrod is and thats fine for me. my attitude on here was created here, from the time i got here people like you have tryed to turn it on me that i started it give me a brake if you have read through these forums as i have you wood see it the way i do.

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I have seen a car that looks close to a car in hotrod magazine?
in hotrod march 2005, on page 59 has a pic of a 27 T called the FBomb. cool car

in the mag the picture was much smaller. but know I am wondering if that car was actually completed to drive?

:o
when i was a lot younger i drove what i had, taking pride in my abilities to keep that old truck running,saftey first.. always wanting to be different than the next cookie cutter comig down the highway! as time went on ,more money became parts, creating a ride that i wanted! sure the cars in the mags were cool i'd be lying if i said i would'nt want one of those;)
this sport is a lot like life kind makes us ,well some of us, a little different than apes!
i'm throwing no cheap shots there is nothing to read between the lines...:cool:
lets just get on with driving and building and yes talking about the many fine machines that grace these pages!!:toocool:

okay, ya on the same page!
then put you're "machine" on the map

http://www.frappr.com/donnie

the picture looks fine Dennyw,thanks couldnt get it to do that myself thanks,the dent was there i just left it. Did you read the white lettering on the tires they say gaint d**k, they were made by D**k Cepek they call them Quiet giants so we just white lettered the giant and d**k the fronts are just a general purpose bais tire that i ordered from my tire guy. I have bars that run down to the frame from the raditor but have thinking about doing what you suggested

Wow! Are those actuallly Olive Branches I see being passed around? Nice job, guys.

they smoke wacky weed and get:whacked: :HMMM: :LOL:

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Originally posted by fordsfairlane
in the mag the picture was much smaller. but know I am wondering if that car was actually completed to drive?

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this isnt the car , i finished building it in aug. 2005

i blame society for making me a rat rodder!
my mama weaned me too early!
it ain't my fault!

actually i am too darn old to be inventing crap about rebelling against societies mores by building a car.
or getting a funny hairdoo
or getting tattoos all over my face ,neck and hands

i am just poor
so i did the best i could with 9000 bucks....;)

Wow this is an old thread being brought back to life. I think the trouble with the world is shown in this simple thread. We as humans want to define and classify everything in life. Our brains just naturally like order. The problem starts when our definition of something doesn't match someone else's definiton. Then wars start! Look at the congressional committee that threw in the towel recently. 2 parties that agree we need to fix the economy, but can't compromise on the how, because by nature as humans it's got to be my way or the highway. Compromise in the end gets so diluted that nothing is ever resolved. Definitions will be the same. By time we got 90% of the people on this site to agree to what a rat rod is, the definiton would make no sense to any of the individual reading it. It's just human nature.