Why do they do it????

[hambiskit]

Why do the paint companies out there sell professional grade products to any idiot out there?
I had a guy bring me a set of fenders to restore for him that he had started to fix but got lost. He had been listening to every counterpersons advice on how to treat rust, and had applied a multitude of products to them, without sanding, no wire brush, nada, nothing. Then , because the rust came back thru ( go figgure ) he pours POR15 on it. I need a jackhammer......two days of sandblasting later I get MOST of it off & he shows up while I'm putting them in Rust-mort, and gets his nose outta joint because " I already did that". ARE YOU KIDDING ME? He almost had a '49 front fender collar.
I think that there should be an I.Q. requirement on professional grade products before they are sold so that if you can't walk & chew gum at the same time then you can't have it.
Anyone else have this problem out there?? Just wondering.

[hambiskit]

Gee thanks Streets,
I think they already have my number..lol

[Mike P]

"am so glad that I r-e-t-i-r-e-d from the "Stupid people helpin' business" this year.. "

I started saying that about 1 1/2 years ago.

Make's you wonder sometimes how come people don't have the time, patience or money to do it right, but always come up with enough to do it over.

[hambiskit]

Then they call you a crook because you have to charge them time to clean up their mess....

[Bob Parmenter]

Man you guys sound like a bunch of crabby ol' men!!

Jim,
You bring up a difficult question to answer in a way. Where do we draw the line?

A few years ago, about 10 or so, when I still had my shop, there was an attempt to figure out how big a "problem" this was/is. As a repair shop that used paint materials on a daily basis we fell under the pervue of the various environmental agencies. We were required to maintain records about every drop of hazardous, dangerous, etc. materials we purchased. How much did we buy, what did we do with it, how did we control what was on hand, and how did we properly dispose of it and where? It was a very complex process to maintain records that were as thorough as required. Not complying meant the potential for enormous fines, and possible jail time. By the interpretation of some bureaucrats I may still be responsible for that stuff that happened on my watch. Yes, I still have the records, and will til I die!

It was of interest to our association of shops to find out if we were in fact the primary users of this type of material, and if the enforcement of these environmental concerns was properly directed. The results were interesting. The jobbers that sell the materials were understandably reluctant to be fully forthcoming about what their customer bases were. To be fair, they weren't going to do much to track the stuff since they weren't required to. With a lot of digging and some use of windage and elevation we learned that somewhere between 35-45% of their total sales were to "non-registered" entities. In other words, folks without a "legitimate" business that had an EPA code (central control number for all the useage/disposal records). That's a pretty big percentage! And since most of us "official" shops bought at "wholesale", the margins they made on those other sales were very likely better (read, more profitable). Now some of those non-registered users were capable users who had sufficient experience, and common sense, to use the products correctly. Probably many of them were our painters doing work on the side at home, or whereever. But I gotta believe a lot of them were the schmucks like your example. And can we believe they handled the products correctly? Especially with regards to proper disposal? It was interesting to watch the politicians go into fade when we asked the questions about the significance of the environmental "police" not pursuing the 35-45% that weren't "registered", but that it was critical to hold those of us with legitimate businesses to an exceptionally high standard of handling. Typical bureaucratic BS.

So back to my original comment. Where to draw the line? Do we shut off anyone that doesn't have a fully functional shop, with all the proper containment, fire equipment, logged MSDS's, quarterly training, etc. etc. etc? Or do we cut some slack to the farmer, as an example, who paints his own stuff and has demonstrated a resonable history or responsible handling? How do we measure the skills of an advanced back yarder who knows how to read the instructions, takes the time and effort to learn how to use the proper materials in the correct manner, and is capable of "doing it right"? I don't know the answer. As often happens, we've ended up with a lot of regulations that can't be enforced anyway because there aren't enough "police", and certainly not enough budget. (not necessarily a bad thing). In many ways we're back to the market system doing it's thing.

I had to laugh during the above process of trying to identify the jobber's market spread. There were some allegations that our association was really just trying to eliminate competition. That our "real" objective was to keep the "little guy" from doing his own work and cutting into our ability to "over charge" people. Well, the reality of it is very similar to the experiences noted in the other posts. Most of those do-it-yourselfers weren't people we wanted to do business with anyway. We were set up to be efficient, follow a system of repair. The kind of work these folks want done would fall outside of that system, and they wouldn't be willing to pay for a professional's skills, and the attendant operational costs of overhead imposed on "real" businesses by a miriad of government entities.

[hambiskit]

uhh- yeah....wow Bob that was right on the nose.

[pro70z28]

Originally posted by hambiskit
uhh- yeah....wow Bob that was right on the nose.

Ya' Know I have the Johnson "nose". He HE HE

In the past I've gotten letters from the EPA for my sign business. When I read the letter I found it humorous they asked me how many 55 gal. drums of hazardous material I produced. I was going to write up a inventory of everything I had. 20 1/2 pint cans of one shot - a half gal. of mineral spirits1 aerosol can of oven cleaner, almost empty bottle of Homer Fornbys furniture restorer, etc. He He He
Then I talked to somebody who talked me out of that approach - saying they MAY NOT think that was veryfunny. So, I called em' instead and explained I didn't have any large amounts of hazardous material on the property. Over the years I've gotten that letter 2 or 3 times. I think they finally got it figured out.
These days with pressure sensitive vinyl and laminated substrates I have even less than back then.

BTW: I DO have 'design challenged' customers from time to time tho.

[SprayTech]

Dont be sniffin' the glue backing now
or they will find a way to make your business a
nightmare .

Its odd as I can throw an used empty paint can in the trash and it can go to the dump , but a rag that might have a drip of paint on it has to go into a special sealed barrel that gets taken away by the same poeple that take our hazedous waste..........Figure that one out ....LOL
Common since at its finest

SprayTech

[pro70z28]

Originally posted by SprayTech
Dont be sniffin' the glue backing now
or they will find a way to make your business a
nightmare .

SprayTech

He HE . Hafta' ask John the UPS driver if adhesive remover iz' hazardous. He He
He had a gallon of the stuff burst inside the "Brown Truck". By the time he got to my place, he wasn't too pleased. That stuff will give ya' a buzz. I told him he was a whimp.

[SprayTech]

I cant be by an open flame , I could blow up from all the stuff I've been subject to

I have breathed some toxic stuff but when my wife cleans her finger nails with what ever she uses (rocket fuel or something) gives me an instant headache, no other chemicals I am around at work has that effect..........

Spray

[CarFreak]

What I wanna know is what makes all of those paints and what have you any more hazardous than a bottle of Windex which contains Ammonia?! I mean for crying out loud, you could sneak into your neighbor's house and pour some Brasso in there kid's jug of Koolaid which is just as dangerous if not more so than paint!

Also, what do they do with all of that elegid "HAZARDOUS MATERIAL"? I mean it's not like they have some super duper laser that vaporizes the stuff! Which means no matter what they do to the material all they are actually doing is moving it to a place more suitable for them so they can take money from you and tell you they "Handled the hazardous stuff, and the world will continue to safely rotate on its axis for atleast another 24 hours."

[CarFreak]

I think if I ever own a business and I the government asks me what I do with my hazardous material, I'll just tell them something like this:

"Oh me and my colleage climb to the top of the local water tower and pour the contents in there that way it's nobody's problem anymore."

or

"Well I usually catch the stray dogs in town lapping it up off of the ground at night. By the way would transmission fluid cause a dog's eyes to glow red at night?"


CarFreak
AKA The Charginator

[SprayTech]

From My understanding it goes to a special Incinerator factory.
They have a means of burning it off with out it supposedly hurting the atmosphere.

Something is also done with the barrels that has the waste material in .

Spray

[Bob Parmenter]

Originally posted by SprayTech
Something is also done with the barrels that has the waste material in .

Spray

Up our way it's a big hole in the ground called Oregon..............I mean IN Oregon!

[shawnlee28]

They do make por 15 stripper spray it on wipe the por off.hehehehe I am sure u wanna hear that now!especially after u was fightin with it so much.As for fools u cant make em go away they just mutate kinda like a virus.Besides that it keeps it interresting.kinda like Head with his oxegen fueler!!!