What brand of paint is "the best"

[The Al Show]

My first rant.
I've been rebuilding a 66 Chevy convertible since September and it's almost ready for paint. The owner, Charlie, showed up over the weekend and says he wants me to use Dupont paint. I've been using Martin Senour paint for the last 20 years on close to 1000 cars and have never had a problem that I could blame on the paint. I asked him why and he said that a coworker told him Dupont is the best paint to use and that he should insist on having it. Is Dupont really "the best"? I think there probably are better brands than M/S but Dupont isn't one of them
I told him if he really has to have Dupont I'll use it but after sleeping on it I've changed my mind.
I have no idea who this guy is who likes dupont or if he ever painted a car. I don't like changing my procedures based on the whims of an idiot.
If the Charlie thinks his friend knows more about painting than I do then I think the Dupont guy should do the paint job.

I replaced the doors, fenders, hood, trunklid, tail light panel and quarter panels on this car as well as the floorboards and trunk floor. All that's left of the original body is a 4 inch strip around the trunk. Charlie has never been happy with anything Ive done up to this point and is slow in paying his bill. If he doesn't like it now he won't like it painted either.

It seems like a no win situation to me. I'm going to tell him to pay his bill and take his car elsewhere to be painted.
Am I wrong? Should I use M/S and listen to him bitch some more? Should I use Dupont and listen to him bitch anyway? Or quit now and let him bitch to his wife and friends? I have a couple of good repeat customers on the waiting list. The more I talk to Charlie the more I want out of this project.

Thanks for letting me rant and blow off steam. I feel better now.

[screamer63_1979]

Tell him "I am a pro and have used M/S paint for over 20 years. I am used to working with it and can guarantee teh results. I'll be happy to use any paint you'd like, BUT i cannot guarantee the results. Each paint and company uses slightly different formulas, and different techniques get teh best results. As I am not familiar with DuPont paints, I cannot guarantee the results - so if it sucks, you're paying anyway. BTW, I need to charge more for the DuPont paint as my local supplier does not carry it so i get no discount to pass on to you, i need to get the specific hardeners/thinners/etc for that paint, and need to clean my equipment before and after use to make sure nothing gets cross contaminated and causes problems.

SOOO, charlie, if you are willing to pay more and forgo a guarantee, then sure, I'll use DuPont or Krylon or sears best Latex - your dime."

See what that does.

[pro70z28]

Back when I painted conversion vans @ Winnebago we used Dupont. When I owned my own body shop I used PPG / Ditzler. Never had any "product quality" problems with either. I've been told by several body shop guys to use House of Color when I get the "Z" ready.
Any of these, Martin Senour included, are quality products, it's more a question personal preference than quality differences. Using compatible products from start to finish would be more critical than brand name I would say.
But then that's like saying Chevy Ford and Chrysler are all quality products. There's always gonna' be diehards out there that will swear by one brand or another.

[Bob Parmenter]

Blonde, brunett, or redhead?? Bush or Kerry?? Which paint is best?? You're an idiot if you use......................................(fill in blank)!! Ford, Chevy, or Mopar (unfair, everyone loves a Mopar)?


What would have been a real laugh is if he insisted on Sherwin-Williams.............since MS is made by them!!

With consolidation in that industry it's gotten down to very few companies making the product anymore. PPG, Dupont, BASF, Valspar, and a couple others. Yet because of customer preference a lot of the "old" names are still around.

When I had my shop we used BASF, both Glasurit and Diamont (RM). At home I use PPG, only because it seems more tolerant of the less than ideal conditions. The guy I use now to do my complete paints likes Sikkens, although we had a problem with it when I had the shop. (to be fair, I think the rep oversold his product in a non-heated booth environment we had at the time, he tried to use an chemical accelerant to force cross link ---it failed).

I was always skeptical of hiring a painter (for the business) who would only consider using one brand of paint, especially if he had a tale of woe about every other brand of paint out there. Those stories didn't usually sync with the experience we had with whatever the belittled product was. And I wasn't about to reconfigure my business to suit him. The message I drew from that was that the painter was more of a problem than the product. That being said, in your situation, there's absolutely no reason to deviate from what you're comfortable with. You know what to expect, and have your learning curve out of the way. It's your "business". Being picky, bitchy, AND slow pay is NOT a good combination. Sometimes it's necessary to fire a customer. Sounds like Charlie is a real hemorhoid and is giving you the perfect out. Collect your dough and push him out the door.

The last time I fired a customer it took him by surprise. I guess he thought I would be desperate for his business. Like you described, he didn't realize I'd developed a client base that was way more appreciative than he. "Get out of the way buddy, there's another one coming in behind you". The upshot of it was, he realized he'd pooped in his mess kit and nearly begged to get on the schedule. We didn't need his grief. I looked him in the eye and said " Gordon, I just don't want the opportunity to disappoint you again". He had no reply but to leave. Stand your ground.

Kinda reminds me of the "my buddy says..................oil is best" discussion.

Spraytech oughtta get a good laugh about this!

[Hot Rod Angel]

Al - Sounds like Uncle Bob might have a good point...although I don't build street rods for a living, I do have my own sign business, and I know that there are some customers that just have to have it done a certain way, even if it's not the right way to do it.

If you do it any other way, it will never be right, even if the results are better than anything that could have been acheived with their method.

I have never thought of "firing" a customer Bob, but what a great idea...I'll have to keep that in mind for the next one I get that's being a pill...I do have a P.I.T.A. (pain in the a$$) charge that I tack on sometimes for those "special" patrons...

[treekiller]

"P.I.T.A. (pain in the a$$) charge"
there ya go AL ..... then just smile the whole time .

[pro70z28]

Originally posted by Hot Rod Angel
Al - I do have my own sign business, and I know that there are some customers that just have to have it done a certain way, even if it's not the right way to do it.
.

You got 'em too huh ...??
My daughter did my business cards on her puter' . Can you letter my truck just like it?
Can you do my sign real cheap, cuz' I'm not gonna' use it very long?

[Hot Rod Angel]

Originally posted by pro70z28
You got 'em too huh ...??
My daughter did my business cards on her puter' . Can you letter my truck just like it?
Can you do my sign real cheap, cuz' I'm not gonna' use it very long?

How 'bout : "I want a really elegant 4' x 8' sandblasted redwood, hand-painted sign with real gold leaf lettering...You want HOW MUCH!?!? But my budget is only $150.00...can't you do any better than that? IT'S JUST A SIGN !

It seems like everybody wants a Ferrari for a Yugo price...

[pro70z28]

Originally posted by Hot Rod Angel
How 'bout : IT'S JUST A SIGN !

It seems like everybody wants a Ferrari for a Yugo price...

If you cut me a deal I'll tell everybody where I got it.

They must be everywhere.

[Weeg]

I gotta go with Uncle Bob on this one too Al. Cut your grief and loses on this guy.

Over more years than I like to think back on, I have had many similar customers that want it for the other guys cheap price, but also want it done their way. In the end they will always find a way to hold payment or try to get it reduced for any possible reason they can think of at the time. I have learned to pick these people out before I ever agree to do a job for them, and just tell them to have the cheap guy do it their way.

[Hot Rod Angel]

Originally posted by pro70z28
If you cut me a deal I'll tell everybody where I got it.

They must be everywhere.

And here all along I thought that they just liked me...sounds like you're a pretty popular fella yourself, Pro :

I almost forgot : "What do ya mean it'll take 2 - 3 weeks?!?! I can go to "Quickie-Signs" & get it today..."

I'm thinkin' to myself, "Don't let the door hit ya in the butt on the way out..."

[pro70z28]

Originally posted by Hot Rod Angel
And here all along I thought that they just liked me...sounds like you're a pretty popular fella yourself, Pro :

I almost forgot : "What do ya mean it'll take 2 - 3 weeks?!?! I can go to "Quickie-Signs" & get it today..."

I'm thinkin' to myself, "Don't let the door hit ya in the butt on the way out..."

The vast majority of customers are easy to please. It's problee' the same people that go from the body shop to the sign shop to the grocery store, etc. just makin' a livin' out of complaining.

[The Al Show]

Thanks for the support and advice guys and Angel.
Ok.Charlie's fired. I don't think I'll tell him untill I get paid and cash the check.
He "forgot" his checkbook when he was here Sunday and was going to pay me today for April's bill. He didn't show up. He called and left a message that he'd come by tomorrow. If he pays me I'll give him the bill for May and the game starts again. This time while he tries to avoid paying the bill his car's going to sit outside under a tarp so there won't be a June bill. Well maybe storage and the P.I.T.A. tax.
He's expecting it to be done in a couple of weeks so maybe he'll pay quicker this time. When he asks why it's not done I'll tell him I had a compatibility problem with the Dupont and need to talk to his Dupont lovin' friend for some advice. If the guy shows up and knows his stuff he'll inherit the job. If he doesn't know squat I'll tell him to keep his know-it-all nose out of my bussiness and throw them both out.

[Hot Rod Angel]

You tell 'em Al !

[Don Shillady]

Well since I am the new "old" guy I will try to be brief. Obviously you will do the best job relative to your experience and the customer should realize that. However, what happened to "the customer is always right"? For my part I had a MG midget painted in the original burnt orange (with black stripe) paint which was matched with DUPONT ACRYLIC and IT LOOKED WET FOR FOUR YEARS! For my money the Dupont acrylic is the best for gloss! I may be predjudiced because I went to school with the chemist Dupont assigned to keep Gordon's No. 24 Rainbow Car freshly painted for each race and including just about every color on the car! I am still envious of that job assignment! One other "old" comment is that if you go back to Hot Rod Magazine and Rod & Custom of the 1950s, the "thing to do" was to spray your '40 Ford coupe with 30 or more coats of lacquer (nitrocellulose lacquer may not be available anymore) BECAUSE you could spray the car OUTSIDE on a home driveway and then buff out the bugs and dust with a sheepskin disk and cornstarch. After about 20 times this coat got pretty shiny and even black could be applied this way, assuming the sheet metal was straight. Sooo, if it is my car I will request DuPont Acrylic every time and maybe you should experiment with it OR if you can find some nitrocellulose lacquer you can send the guy home with a Sears sprayer and a box of cornstarch. By the way, I mean no disparagement of your skill as a painter, it is just that I like the DuPont Acrylic (it looks WET forever!).

Best wishes,
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder