Airbrushing

Does anyone here do airbrushing on car's, helmets, bike tanks, etc? If so then can you give me some tips on it? I am buying a airbrush whenever I find a good deal and all because I don't wan't to go out and just buy any brush and all without info and best price. So far it's www.dixieart.com They have the cheapest prices so far and I am looking at getting a Iwata Eclipse with gravity feed. Does anyone know if that one is a good one or not because I wan't to paint anything from small stuff to bigger stuff to good detail, etc. Any info on that or tips on how to do detailed stuff and all would be greatly appreciated. I am not sure on the paints either with base coats and all because I am going to go ahead and use "Auto Air Colors" which is a water... solluble (sp) I guess that's the word. But yeah anyways thanks in advance. Also if anyone out there has MSN or AIM/AOL and can help me out through chatroom then that would be great!


Shawn

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Originally posted by FMXhellraiser
Does anyone here do airbrushing on car's, helmets, bike tanks, etc? If so then can you give me some tips on it? I am buying a airbrush whenever I find a good deal and all because I don't wan't to go out and just buy any brush and all without info and best price. So far it's www.dixieart.com They have the cheapest prices so far and I am looking at getting a Iwata Eclipse with gravity feed. Does anyone know if that one is a good one or not because I wan't to paint anything from small stuff to bigger stuff to good detail, etc. Any info on that or tips on how to do detailed stuff and all would be greatly appreciated. I am not sure on the paints either with base coats and all because I am going to go ahead and use "Auto Air Colors" which is a water... solluble (sp) I guess that's the word. But yeah anyways thanks in advance. Also if anyone out there has MSN or AIM/AOL and can help me out through chatroom then that would be great!


Shawn

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I'm partial to the Paasche "VL". Don't skimp on an air brush. They aren't all that expensive anyway even for a good one. I don't use mine a lot anymore, got burned out in the old dayz. Or maybe it was the fumes that got to me. He He Usta' paint murals for Winnebago Conversion Vans.
I'm dating myself here but I always used lacquer. Did some fine detail in acrylic. Clear coated with urethane clear like Delclear. Using an airbrush is just a matter of practice, practice, practice. Keep an extra bottle of just thinner handy to clear out the airbrush from time to time so you can get fine detail.

Well I am not skimping out on the airbrush, it's the best one there.... The Iwata's are one of the best I hear, that VL is a bit cheap I hear but is good for helmets. I am going with the Iwata Eclipes I think which is more of an upgrade to the VL. I just want to wait and get more idea's and help from people before I just jump right into getting something so I know I won't have to end up spending more later because I messed up and bought the wrong brush or paint's or something of that sort.

Dunno.... I've had my Paasche for over 30 years and it still works fine. Can't tell you how many murals I've done with it, somwhere in the 1,000's.
There are many good airbrushes out there, some bad ones too, so you have to be carefull not to buy junk.

I've got 2 Iwata Eclipse gravity feed brushes don't remember the model number off hand (they are both the same) had the needle and tip changed in one to apply more paint for larger items. I tried Auto Air paint but didn't care for it so I went to House of Color paint ..... Paasche is also a nice brush paints very well

just my 2 cents

MM64 :cool:

Ay MrMopar, what didn't you like about the Auto Air paint? Also how do you like the gun? In those House Of Colors do you have to use a reducer? Thanks.

Also what kind of clear and degreaser should I use?

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Originally posted by FMXhellraiser
Ay MrMopar, what didn't you like about the Auto Air paint? Also how do you like the gun? In those House Of Colors do you have to use a reducer? Thanks.

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I didn't care for the way it went on didn't seem to flow out nice....... I know there are alot of people using it and it may just take some getting used to but I've always used lacquer(sp) and House of Color acts just like lacquer although they claim it's not.... ( can't buy lacquer here in So Cal)
I use there urethane(sp) clear as a top coat

MM64 :cool:

I am a formally trained Airbrush artist... I took several illustration classes in college including a technical illustration class and airbrush illustration... I later helped to teach that same class...

A friend and I have reciently started up a company called Dangerous Designworx... We do custom airbrush graphics mostly on Motorcycles due to work area (space) limitations...

As far as equipment goes there is much to consider, not only the quality of the equipment but what is comfortable for you... I am a Paasche guy, I mainly use a VL and H... The H is a single action brush and is great for large coverage areas the VL is Double action and is a great general use brush, I use it mainly for fine detail work using a fine needle... As much depends on how comfortable you are with the brush as the brand of the brush... I have used Iwata Brushes and they are very nice, but I am more comfortable with Paasche... I also like the Paasche because I have a few local shops that carry replacement parts and I don't have to order parts off the net when I need them in a hurry, that is not the case around here for Iwata brusches... Badger also makes some good brushes if you stay away from the lower end (Hobby) products they offer at mass retail stores...

You will also have to have some type of air supply, if you are using a compressor you will need to invest in a high quality moisture trap and a good pressure regulator... You can also use CO2 if you like, but beware CO2 is a liquid that turns to a gas as it is used, unlike compressed air the expansion of the gas will cause the CO2 to get cold and then it tends to condensate... You will need still need a good moisture trap and reg if you decide to use C02...

With paint there is much trial and error in deciding which paint is the best to use in which application... I use automotive urethanes that are compatable with the clear that is going to be used... Base/Clears are nice because you don't have to use a hardner in the color and the colors go down flat... You will need to research which paints you use as some base coats have to be cleared after a certain time or they can't be cleared at all... I know this is the case with HOK striping paints, seem like they have to be cleared over within a few hours...

Hope this gets you started in the right direction...

Dave Brisco

Ok thanks a lot guy's, you were a big help. Do you know of anyone that might be able to help me out because I still don't know about those moisture traps that you were talking about and all, because see I got a big compresser that I got from Lowes or Home Depot and this place said I can use them and don't need no adapters or nothing but they seemed kind of rude like they didn't wan't to help me so I just didn't ask them too much and now I don't know what to get to fit it and all. So any help with that would be great. Also I don't know about what paint to get like what all do I need because I dont wan't to just go buy paint and forget to buy something like I need base coat, the paint, and what else? Do you guy's know of EVERYTHING I will need? I am sorry for all the questions but I just don't know a damn thing and wan't to learn but there isn't anyone I know of around here that is into this stuff or any schools. I am going to try and order my stuff this week but all I know to get right now is the Eclipse airbrush and that's it..... what else should I get? I had a list of paint to get but I don't even think I did it right because people keep telling me to use reducers then they say no don't use that and some people tell me to use PPG with reducers and others tell me not to use reducers and all.... I am just so confused now from all these different (probably wrong) answers.
Thanks a ton again!

Alright well I have been looking around and asking people questions and I am so damn confused. I don't even know where to start with this airbrushing stuff now. People keep telling me to get this gun and not that and this paint not that, this that this that. I really need help... Can someone please tell me EVERYTHING I will need, like what kind of air compressor should I get, what paint stuff do I need, cleaners, etc.
See I hear Auto Air now is not good for automotive and I don't know nothing about paint like what all to get because I can't JUST get the colors I wan't, I need stuff like base coats but I know that that's not all I need so what is everything I need there. The reason why I am asking is because I dont want to order something over the net, then forget to order something and end up spending way too much on shipping and all. Thanks again.

Check out this site www.coastairbrush.com this is the guy that answered all my ? when I got started Someone at one of my jobs recommend him to me ( of course he's also local to me)
but you can call him on the phone ask for Dave he's the owners son and run's the place they carry EVERYTHING you will need to get started. Their number is on the web site

Check him out

MM64
:cool:

I think you should get whatever brush appeals to you... If you have never used an airbrush before it will make no difference which brand you use... I would recommend starting with a single action, as I think you will have more control over the spray pattern if you are not used to using an airbrush... A double action is a good choice also, but takes a little more coordination and it could cause to get more fustrated if you don't get the hang of it right away... I would suggest that whichever brush you get you buy it in a kit which will come with several different sided Needles and nozzles as well as a few other parts you will need (depending on the brand of brush) to make the tool as versatile as possible...

As far as paint, you can use whatever you want, it really all depends on the application... I would suggest that you purchase some inexpensive paints first and practice on some scrap material, paper, wood ect... Testors has a great selection of colors and are easily available at your local hobby shop... I would not recommend using Testors for work on sheetmetal, but is great for practice! You will need to learn how to mix paints and how to reduce them to the correct consistency for your airbrush style... Createx is another choice, it thins and cleans with water which is also nice...

You might want to read a couple of books about airbrush techniques before starting, or you can just jump in and learn by trial and error...

Either way you start to learn there is not right or wrong way to painting with an airbrush there is only what works best for you... Like any time of art, airbrush is all about technique and style... If you like to draw and paint with a brush then you will understand what I am talking about, if you don't draw or paint, then working with an airbrush might be a bit of a struggle for you...

Asking us to tell you everything you need to know about this subject is probably not the best way to start out as there are way too much to cover in one post... Much of what people are going to tell you about paint and equipment is that person's oppinion based on their past experience... As far as I know you have no past experience so there is really no way for you to know which brand of paint you prefer... There is alot of information on the internet for you to look at and to help you start to form your own oppinions...

Learning to Paint is not like getting a new board game where you get a set of rules and once you have read them and played the game you know the game. It is more like an adventure, there are not hard and fast rules, every project is a learning experience... Every project will bring a better knowledge and will stretch your abilities...

Here is a website that has several forums that are full of ideas and information...

http://www.airbrush.com

As far as equipment here is a web site that should have everything you would ever need, even moisture traps...

http://www.airbrush-depot.com

I would also suggest that you go to your nearest news stand and look for a magaxine called Airbrush Action... It is a great mag and is loaded with information...

I hope this info gives you a bit more insight... I am happy to help with any other specific questions you may have...

Dave Brisco
Dangerous Toys

Thanks a lot you guy's. I will definetely look at those sites you all gave me. I have looked at every single one of those before but not for long because I was busy. I have a couple of hours so I will do that in a bit. Thanks for helping me out though, and I get what you mean about there's no right or wrong way to do it and it's all my own oppinion, I figured that that was how it went. I might just go with the auto air paints for now and do it one step at a time. I am just one of those type of people though that wan't to do it the right way, not mess up and learn EVERYTHING I possibly can about stuff I like to do, for example, dirtbiking or working on them, I wan't to know everything about them and how to do certain stuff. I think you get the point though. Sorry for the book I wrote, lol but just wanted to get that out of my system.
Thanks again, and if anyone else has any oppinions or tips on good books to help out then that would be great!

I know what you mean by wanting to know all you can before getting into a project. I took 3 semisters of autobody shop at the local Vo-Tech before I ever even considered laying down any paint on a Car or Mototcycle... There is as much to know about prep work as there is about laying down paint... If you don't prep the surface correctly all of your work will end up comming off the first time it gets washed...

Dave Brisco

Back in the dayz' painting at Winnebago, we did 10 vans a day. there were 4 of us painting murals. Well, usually 3 doing murals and 1 clear coating in the booth. If you do the math (8 hour day) ea. van got a mural on both sides and sometimes the front and back too. We didn't get to spend too much time on detail. The vans came down the line with a subject written on the work order like "Western scene" or "Sailing Ships" or "Train" like this one and then we usually had the freedom to paint anything with that general theme. It was fun for a while, but like anything they pushed us faster and faster. So, the murals ended up being purdy' basic.

Best way to learn how to use an airbrush is to just do it. Practice, practice, practice. The 4 of us each had our own style. You could go through the holding lot and pretty much pick out who did which mural.

Nice art there man. Ay dave what should I do to prep my golf cart if I wan't to paint it? I am doing some bondo work right now and then going to sand everything down all smooth. What do I do after that so I don't mess the paint up? Any ideas?

3 good coats of primer. apply 1st coat, sand with 320-400 grit, apply 2nd coat, repeat sanding, apply 3rd coat, don't sand that coat just paint over it unless, it's rough then, apply 1 more coat. Always wipe off sanding dust between coats of primer. This is what I would do on a golf cart. Block sanding is best.

Oh and, you being a beginner airbrusher, just get a testors airbrush from walmart and get the part that lets you connect it to a compressor. They cost around 35.00 so they won't break the bank. I have 1 and it's good enough to learn on then, get a better 1 when your quality of the airbrush work you can do is affected by the quality that your airbrush can produce.

Thanks there Matt. I am going to go ahead and get an Iwata man. I got a compressure but just need a moisture trap and regulator, I think I might run two regulators with the moisture trap up near the gun (one on each end of the air hose).
With the sanding like you said, should that be wet sanding?

Wet sanding is the best way.

Matt is dead on... I don't know what color you plan on painting the cart, but you might want to use a regular paint gun to shoot the entire area first... Depending on the color you are painting the cart and the subject matter of your airbrush painting you might want to spray a white base coat on the area you are airbrushing, this is not always necessary but it might be especially if you are painting light colors over dark...

Hope this helps...

Dave Brisco

Thanks Dave, and yeah I got the tape to make the flames with and I am going to outline that and make them and tape the flames up where they will be and the middle will be taped so I don't get paint on it and then on the rest of the cart I am going to use a dark base coat and lay down a pearl black and the flames will have a white base coat with metallic or pearl blue flames. Should I paint the entire cart pearl black first and then do the flames over the pearl black or do how I said with the taping?

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Originally posted by FMXhellraiser
Thanks Dave, and yeah I got the tape to make the flames with and I am going to outline that and make them and tape the flames up where they will be and the middle will be taped so I don't get paint on it and then on the rest of the cart I am going to use a dark base coat and lay down a pearl black and the flames will have a white base coat with metallic or pearl blue flames. Should I paint the entire cart pearl black first and then do the flames over the pearl black or do how I said with the taping?

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Be sure to put enough clear over the pearl so you wet sand the clear and Don't get into the pearl. Pearl is a translucent paint..... hard to fix if you sand through it.

Ok thanks Pro, how many coats do you think because I know that you have to spary those Auto Air paints really thin so do you thing about 3 to 4 coats of clear?

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Originally posted by FMXhellraiser
Ok thanks Pro, how many coats do you think because I know that you have to spary those Auto Air paints really thin so do you thing about 3 to 4 coats of clear?

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Hard to say. It depends how thick you lay down each coat. I would do a test panel, spray 3 or 4 coats on it, then sand it down to see how far you can go before you hit the pearl coat.

Alright sure thing boss. hah, yeah I will probably spray these Auto Airs pretty thin because I hear that Auto Air should be put on in thicker coats.