When is STRAIGHT, straight ENOUGH for final paint?

Well, I have been working on getting my '32 high boy roadster ready for paint for the past several weeks. The body has been off the frame, all the body parts have been media blasted, and every square inch of metal was powdercoated in primer. The body was then remounted on the frame, doors adjusted and everything block sanded with 60 grit before my actual bodywork started.

I have been slowly working my way around the car doing the bodywork, fitting the body panel gaps, and making every panel straight and flat. Another couple of days and it will be ready for the first coat of high build primer/filler and more block sanding.

I went to the saturday morning car show this past weekend (The Donut Shop) and saw a beautiful black 29 full fendered roadster with carmel/tan spoke wheels. It was so straight, it looked like someone spray painted over glass mirror. The fit and finish was Grand National car show quality. This got me thinking about my body prep work. When do you know if "you have it straight enough" for the final paint?

My car will be "a driver" (I have already driven it 9000 miles in bare steel) and it will be done in a dark opaque color, close to '40 Ford Maroon. The "fit and finish deal" is important to me. It drives me crazy to walk through a car show and see $10K paint jobs on roadsters that the body/hood lines do not match up.

Here is my process. On dark colored jobs, I repair any body problems that I can find, trusting my hands to find them....not just my eyes. They will "lie"!

I go through the prime-guidecoat-block process twice.

The first prime, I use a long board with 150 on flat areas, and glaze in any problem areas until I can run the palms of my hands over it without feeling humps or flats.

I them reprime & guidecoat, and block with smaller stiff pads using 360....glaze any problems....touch up anything I can find, then run my hands over it again.

If it feels good, I seal and paint, watching for problems that won't be covered during the final blocking & buffing on the finish.

If you do miss a spot, do what you have to do to fix it, so you will be happy with the finished job.

When is it straight enough..

when you can't stand straight from stooping

when you can't lay your hand out straight from sanding

when you can't find your way straight home without stopping for supplies

when your wife asks you to get help to go 'straight'

when your finances are in dire 'straights' from your project

then.. and only then..

you need to go straight to work.. cause you got two more hours of sanding to do!

Observer asking car owner: "What did you use to get this thing so straight?"

Car Owner: "100 dollar bills...."

Ya want perfect ? Do as HotRodPaint said -Then shoot 1 coat of black or any other dark color on it.
Let it set for 2 - 3 days, then block it 1 more time with 500 -600- and shoot the final color and clear.
Then sand sum more and Buff.
And sum of them paint jobs your lookin @ that you think are 10K
Guess again-----20K +++++
:CRY::CRY::CRY:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stu Cool

Observer asking car owner: "What did you use to get this thing so straight?"

Car Owner: "100 dollar bills...."

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That's a good one.....I'll be using that! :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DA34GUY

Ya want perfect ? Do as HotRodPaint said -Then shoot 1 coat of black or any other dark color on it.
Let it set for 2 - 3 days, then block it 1 more time with 500 -600- and shoot the final color and clear.
Then sand sum more and Buff.
And sum of them paint jobs your lookin @ that you think are 10K
Guess again-----20K +++++
:CRY::CRY::CRY:

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I remember about 20 years ago I read about it being possible for a paint job to go to $50K. I thought that was ridiculous, since I was getting about $2500 for a good job. Now I'm in the $5-$10K range, for the same work. As the cost of materials goes up...the value of the dollar goes down....and my "cost to survive" goes up....I think I have changed my mind. Still, if it's not affordable to enough people, enthusiasts will look for "cheap" alternatives. Hey!... That's already happening! :-)

Man ---Ya hit th nail on the head there HotRodPaint.
I've been @ this game since the late 60's and the $$$$ of materials has gone WACKO.
Used to B able to do a nice quality paint job for a grand in materials(1980's)
The last 32 Pics attached) I did (dec last year) I had right @ 2200 in material, and ya get guys who want their car painted for 5 G's.
They don't have a clue.
I just tell them to go to the local grocery store and buy $1.99 woth of Prime Rib and see how much ya get.
That's 1 of the reasons I sold my Body Shop 7 years ago. Everybody want's sumthin for nuttin.
Now I just speculate and build.
Doin pretty good also. Have built and sold 23 32-33 ford in the last 4 1/2 years

Good lookin' car!....and a nice change from "flat black with red wheels", too!

Summit Racing has come out with there own brand of Summit® Acrylic Urethane Paints... price is very reasonable as compared to PPG or HOK... anyone tried it?

I don't experiment any more with switching brands. Almost always, less money means less quality, and reputation is too important, if you do this full time.

...but if you are a do it yourselfer, and don't intend to keep it long term...

Most of us on this site are old enough o remember Earl Sheib’s, “any color of the rainbow for $29.95." I remember my folks getting one of his “special” paint jobs – just before selling the car.

In the 60’s, I had a Corvette painted for $750 and it was flawless.

I recently had my son’s truck painted and it was $1,700 from a friend who got supplies for me at cost and used a booth for no charge while practically giving away his labor – certainly not a show quality job but nice for my son’s pickup and within the realm of affordability.

I am reminded often that the paint itself is only one component and the real expense will always be with the labor required to bring the body as close as possible to perfection and “additional” features that will classify the job as a custom.

There’s another thread going as we speak discussing air supply in preparation for painting in one’s own shop. We’ve discussed several times the need for good, filtered air at a minimum of 10cfm (more is better) and the need to have an absolutely clean environment. Let’s not forget the drying enhancement of a heated booth and by all means – the personal safety aspect of this process.

When painting a car “myself” I need to ask, “What will I be happy with as an end product?” If I’m a perfectionist and want the very best – I have HOTRODPAINT do the job as this is what he does and how he make his living. I cannot get a $10K paint job for $1,000 – even if I do all the work myself – because I am not a professional painter. Paint, like most profession, takes years of practice. We need to remember that a “workman is worthy of his wages”. To expect a person to work for 2 weeks (80 hours) to prep a car and then paint it for less than $6-7K in labor is just wrong. I know people who pay that much to have their Harley's painted and that's a tank and two fenders!

If you do decide to do it yourself, paint is available from places like http://www.paintforcars.com
For $71.00 plus shipping, you get the following:

“This kit includes one gallon of Starfire acrylic enamel paint, one Pint of our Premium quality Wet look hardener and one quart of compatible medium speed acrylic reducer. Mixing ratios on this kit is 8 parts paint, 2 parts reducer and 1 part hardener. Kit also includes disposable dust mask, three mixing sticks and three high quality mixing strainers.”

They have 20 colors and lots of other supplies – but remember, this is not as easy as it looks and not to be undertaken lightly.

Please know - HOTRODPAINT (and others who paint professionally) that I have an enormous respect for what you do and certainly expect to pay for a professional paint job.

Regards All,
Glenn

Just so you don't insist on perfection! :-) I've chased it for 44 years, but never achieved it. I now tell people that it's that last 5% that gets really expensive.... and I can only do about 3% of that! I'll add that I've never seen a perfect job either. There are flaws in all of them I've seen, including those Boyd Coddington rods, famous show cars, and Ferraris, that we all worship.

I think a lot of it depends on what you want the car to be and also your personal definition of "good enough." Me, I don't want my cars to be so nice you are afraid to drive them or leave them unattended at a show or grocery store parking lot. I just found a spot on the underside of my body where the car evidently came down on a speed bump and my reaction was "oh well!" It didn't bother me at all, as I fully expect those kinds of things to happen if you actually use the car.

My Nephew has an original '67 Shelby that is a very high point car, one of the best in the country. So, he keeps it in a climate controlled garage, trailers it in an enclosed trailer to a show, wins his trophy, and then tucks it back in the garage, where it does nothing but sit till the next show. If that is your idea of a fun car, great. Not me...............cars were made to drive, get wet in the rain, get hit by the occasional rock, and generally used as they were intended.

So I guess the answer to your question is, "the car is straight enough when you decide you can accept it's flaws (and there WILL be flaws) and you just want to get it on the road before you die." :D:D

Don

they start getting close to paint black when your fingers tips start to bleed from lack of skin i done dead flat black paint jobs lots of block sanding and alot of prep work i would get it ready for paint after many guide coats when close i wet the panel down and look down it till i found something i did not like and work on it more :whacked: my black 66 gto i stop counting when i past 7 times i block that body out

Hey wait a minute! Are you guys telling me that.........all of the Hot Rod TV shows that roll the bare body down the alley one night, and it comes back in the morning perfectly done, striped, and buffed is not REAL LIFE? LOL

Seriously, I have great respect for what you guys do and the results you get. Jay, The "last 5%" comment was great. Don, I'm going to drive the hell out of it, hopefully to Bonneville this year, or next. I just finished fabing a reciever tow hitch so I can tow a small tear drop trailer, or my sons race car at the drag strip. I selected my paint color so it will be easy to blend in on touch-up's.

I still remember seeing John Buttera's polished aluminum bodied track roadster parked at the Del Mar Good Guys show a couple of years ago filthy dirty, full of empty soda cans and candy wrapers about the same time as it appeared on the cover of Street Rodder! None of us are getting any younger, we are not taking them with us, so lets enjoy them with family and friends for as long as we can.

Now........BACK TO SANDING!

for the life of me i will never understand trying to save a few bucks on paint. hell your saving all the labor cost and want to use walmart paint ?????? there's a pick up here done with ebay paint. he's the kind that thinks 1500 for a paint job is a rip off. guy was all cocky for about 6months. now he's looking at completely redoing it. i tried to tell him to use better products but he was going to show me . he hates me because i bring it up every time i see it. you buy maco you deserve maco. beer budget and champagne appetite :3dSMILE:

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Originally Posted by shine

for the life of me i will never understand trying to save a few bucks on paint. hell your saving all the labor cost and want to use walmart paint ?????? there's a pick up here done with ebay paint. he's the kind that thinks 1500 for a paint job is a rip off. guy was all cocky for about 6months. now he's looking at completely redoing it. i tried to tell him to use better products but he was going to show me . he hates me because i bring it up every time i see it. you buy maco you deserve maco. beer budget and champagne appetite :3dSMILE:

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One of the things that may cause this attitude is the "need to compete". If a guy can't afford to put that kind of money into paint... because he has a young family, does not make an income that allows extra expense, he should just say so.

Too often they want to belittle the guy who is fortunate enough to have the "means", as a "goldchainer"... even though the guy may have busted his butt to earn it.

Sometimes he may blame it on the painter, for being a thief! Sure it sounds like a lot of money, but they don't seem to understand that you have to deduct materials cost, then sometimes divide the balance by hundreds of hours.

Knowing about the time it takes to do this, I usually try to point out that it's easy to say, I'll just repaint it, if that cheap paint doesn't last.....but how much will it really cost??? I would hardly call it wise to save 1000 dollars on paint, then lose $2000 or more, in time and materials, each time you redo it!

When it's straight!

It either is or it isn't!

I was taught this mantra by an old bodyman:

"Shape - Straight - Smooth"

Shape: Do your metal repairs then hammer & dolly to the correct shape.

Straight: Cross hatch with a body file and more hammer & dolly to straighten the panel. Shoot your primer, then crosshatch with a longboard to get the panel perfectly straight. You may have to shoot several coats of primer as needed. alternate light/dark as mentiond above.

NOTE: "Coarser is straighter" use 24 grit He said: "The scratches don't lie!"

Smooth: Once the panel is straight, then work your way up to a finer grit until you're smooth enough to paint.

The biggest mistake that amateurs make is they start the final step of smoothing BEFORE the panel is straight resulting in "happy sailors" ie nice smooth waves!

Shape - Straight - Smooth

Guide coat helps a lot. Do not sand in only one direction either.