Sandpaper rant

Yesterday I ran out of P220 wet and dry (I use it dry) that I have been using to finish off some filler and 'Icing' and had to buy 3M Imperial from my local auto body supplier. This is P220, which supposedly is the same weight paper and grit micron size as the Norton P220 Black Ice paper.

What crap!!:CRY:

The 3M loads almost instantly and cannot be cleaned by a bench brush - I need a stiff bristle brush. The Norton can be cleaned with a couple of strokes with my bench brush. The 3M gets dull very quickly. The Norton lasts at least 3X longer before I discard it. I have no idea where I got the Norton paper. I can buy the 3M at NAPA, Lowes, KMart or Wally World. The 3M is 94 cents a sheet, the Norton - who knows, but if it lasts 3X longer sure is well worth any price, but my guess is that it is cheaper. I was able to buy some 60, 80 and 100 grit conventional Norton at Home Despot when I stripped the car - and that also lasted much longer then the 3M. Unfortunately, my local HD doesn't carry P220/240 wet and dry.

Since I've been ranting, do others have the same opinion of 3M or do I stand alone (again:( ) ? I guess my rant is against almost everything 3M as they seem to have generally an OK variety of products, but nothing spectacular but are a big enough marketing factor that they overwhem the marketplace.

Just this week when I bought my paint, I needed to buy some of those little grinding discs that you screw onto a mandrel. She had Norton and 3M, and I bought the Norton because that is what Dan has always had. They were cheaper than the 3M by about $ 4 a box, and we have never had problems with them, other than the mandrel wears out after a while and the disc goes across the floor like a frisbie.

Don

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Originally Posted by DennyW

Norton is top of the line for any grinding type materials. 3M is for glue only. :LOL: :LOL:

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And tape

:D I just found 2 more sheets of Norton 220:D

Someone here in the NY Capital district must have Norton - one of their factories used to be just outside of Troy, NY (<10 miles from me)

Amen Dave....... AND TAPE. What happened to 3M? I'm so dissappointed, it was what we all used for years. Now I have to take a crucifix into the store and excercise the demons before I get stuck? So sad.

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Originally Posted by nitrowarrior

Amen Dave....... AND TAPE. What happened to 3M? I'm so dissappointed, it was what we all used for years. Now I have to take a crucifix into the store and excercise the demons before I get stuck? So sad.

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Must be the same gremlins that invaded Fram, just living on reputation and it's going down hill fast.

Glad you posted this.

I bought some Norton 320 & 400 wet/dry from Home Despair a while back.
Seems ok, but I'm only involved in very short term projects utilizing wet/dry right now so no real info to offer on how long it lasts.

I couldn't find any P designation on the wet/dry, but I did find a P designation on the Norton 3X 150 and 100 grit dry paper I have in stock.
It's used for woodwork and is lasting quite well in my little Makita finish sander and also when used by hand on hardwood. (Also purchased at Home Despair.)

Since you're sanding dry I wonder if the woodwork oriented Norton 3X would work for you?
Pretty sure it comes in finer grits.

I'm with Nitrowarrior, where the heck did 3M masking tape go?
Doesn't seem to be found most places and auto paint stores here seem to come & go and far as I know the last one faded away a few months back.

Well, the green 2" 3M tape is now about $7.00 a roll. Don't near where it went, but I could sure tell them where to put it!!!! I guess some fool in marketing seems to believe in the old marketing axiom of "Load the cart till the mule goes blind". Ain't no roll of masking tape worth $7.00 to me!!!!

Home Depot is doing some goofy stuff. Every time I go into the store (it's two blocks from my shop so I go there a LOT) they are tearing down some section of the tool department and adding or removing some product line.

They finally got some Norton stuff like the rice cake discs we have been discussing on here, and when I went in to get more yesterday, some associate was tearing that section out and putting something else in there. When I asked where the Norton discs were, he said over on that clearance section. He didn't know if the line was gone or not.

To be honest, I like Lowes better, particularly for stuff like grade 8 bolts and assorted steel pieces. They have a pretty good inventory of 3/16 plate, etc. You pay more for it than if you go to a steel house, but on a weekend it has saved me more than once. Lowes is a little further away from my shop, and traffic makes it hard to get out of it, but I find I am going there more and more.

But Home Depot can't seem to make up their mind on what lines to carry.

Don

Im also in with ya on norton ,stuff is great, but i do have a 3m story. i had a job once cleaning out houses that had been forclosed on, well during one of these jobs i found an old pack of sand paper, the pack cover had minnesota, mining and mineral company on it, it took a couple of days before i realized that was 3m, i dont know how old it was , but im guessing pretty old, well that stuff lasted for years, by far the best sandpaper i had ever used, i wish i could find a case of that old stuff.

The body shop supply store I use for materials started carrying the Norton paper about a year ago. Haven't bought any 3M overpriced overrated stuff since!!!!! Just did some wet sanding on a couple different projects today, the Norton black ice wet sand paper is the best I've ever used.

can't help on the sandpaper but i can say i wont go in the local homedepot ever again. Every time i go i leave angry, last time i went, i waited an hour to speak with the store manager who told me there wasn't anything he could really do to fix the level of service because he dosn't have enough employees. Bull.....it's not that hard to train people or make them care about their job. Anyways, I go to Lowes and OSH for everything now.

Nobody mentioned it but,in the process of redoing my old 54 Ford I have needed misc bolts,wiring,brass fittings,etc and have found that Ace Hardware is the place to go .The prices were better than Lowes and Depot and the people there know the product! usually can get in and out quickly too :D

I went to Home Depot and bought 6 mini blinds all one color for my house, and by mistake I picked up 1 the wrong color, when I went to return it for the right one, they gave me crap saying this one is not on the sales slip, I said thats because I grabbed one the wrong color, and I wanted to switch it for the right one (It's unopen). She said again it's not on here I can't return it!!! :mad: it took about 20 min and 3 people to return it :confused: !

Pat

Wow, did I open a Pandora's Box on emotions about Norton, 3M and Home Despot.

Yeah - the 3M tape is expensive, but I haven't found anything else that wont allow paint creep under it - any suggestions? Tuck (or Duck or Harbor Freight and similar) is OK for line definition when cutting steel, putting a form together to 'glass, or to rattle can paint your outside furniture, but not to paint a car.

I'm seeing some improvement at the local HD since they booted out my old GE boss, Bob Nardelli and his $210KK 'golden parachute'. I even got asked if I needed help twice and was greeted at the door - and during the same visit. But they still didn't have what I wanted so went across the road to Lowe's.
Most of Lowe's bolting says Rockwell on the package but are much too expensive so I often end up at Tractor Supply a half mile down the road. Their Gr8 are $3 something a POUND. Though they are most likely Chinese, at least I feel that they are OK where a Gr5 would work - and I only use them in an unstressed situation. High strength bolts come from Fastenal or McMaster-Carr. Ace Hardware has its major NE distribution center about 15 miles from me but the only local store was sold since it could not compete with the big box stores and became a Kia dealership - whoopee!!:eek:

OK - gotta go wear out some more 3M paper and hope that the next good spell of weather I can paint:whacked: :3dSMILE:

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Originally Posted by C9x

Glad you posted this.

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Since you're sanding dry I wonder if the woodwork oriented Norton 3X would work for you?
Pretty sure it comes in finer grits.

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Jay,
I used the 60 and 80 Norton 3X for paint removal. The finest my local HD had was 120. It did a great job compared to the 3M as it didn't load up on the crap primer Brookville uses. Got some left that I'm using on a couple of wood projects.

My local HD also have 320 and higher Norton wet and dry, but I already have lots of fine up to 2000 in both Norton and 3M - some new and some ....

If you've noticed, Lowes has crap paper, I believe from Brazil and India along with some 3M

I believe Mirka is rated about the best automotive paper but no one here has even heard of it - and I have never tried it.

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Wow, did I open a Pandora's Box on emotions about Norton, 3M and Home Despot.

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Cool - always wondered about which paper was better.

[QUOTE=SBC]

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Wow, did I open a Pandora's Box on emotions about Norton, 3M and Home Despot. {/QUOTE]

Cool - always wondered about which paper was better.

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Ya gotta be careful - these are opinions, and in my case, a rank amateur in body work tho Dave Severson is doing this professionally

As someone who worked in retail for almost the last 20 years, I can say the Manager at Home Depot who said he is understaffed is tell the truth. All of these chains have discovered "downsizing." and love to run their stores with as few Associates as possible, and hire people who don't make very much.

Every week the home office would tell us how many hours we had to spread around to staff the store that week, based on what we did the week before in sales, and what we did one year ago during that week. The Manager then had to take those hours and divide them up among all the employees, trying to keep everybody happy, and also have enough people to run the store.

Customers would say to me all the time (seeing customers backed up and a few employees running their butts off) "Boy, you guys should hire more people." We would agree, but the home office bean counters had it down to a science and wouldn't budge off of their numbers.

The days of going into a store and finding good, knowledgable help, and someone to actually help you are gone. We have done it to ourselves by wanting the cheap prices that the Superstores provide, and the mom and pop stores who provided that kind of service are being driven out of business.

Don

Our local Home Despair is doing pretty good in the customer relations dept.
I am missing the ex-lineman who was in the electrical dept.
He really knew what he was doing.

We have a Lowes in Bullhead City, down the hill toward Laughlin - 30 miles from the house.
They have a terrific tool dept. although the local Home Despair is fairly well equipped.
Makes for a cool day, lunch at one of Lauglin's great casino restaurants and shopping at Lowes - which Sweetie likes as well.

I utilize the local True Value and Ace hardware stores for bolts etc.
They have a way better bolt assortment than does Home Despair.
In fact, I quit going to HD for bolts, most times it's a wasted trip.
Good part is, Ace is building a killer huge building and should be moved into that in a couple of months with even more stock.

Like Joehalford01 says, OSH is great for bolts & nuts.
Wish we had one of those out here.

Joe, have you found the chrome plated acorn nuts there in the Visalia store?
They used to be - and probably still are - just to the right of the stainless bolt section near the end cap.

High quality stuff, American made.
Prices are quite good compared to the Harley shop, about 20% the cost last time I bought some.

Trouble is, I think the Harley guys discovered them.
You need to go in there on Tuesday when the bolt supply is delivered.
Most times the popular sizes are gone by the weekend.

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

The days of going into a store and finding good, knowledgable help, and someone to actually help you are gone. We have done it to ourselves by wanting the cheap prices that the Superstores provide, and the mom and pop stores who provided that kind of service are being driven out of business.

Don

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Don,
I spoke to one of the local HD asst mgrs a couple of months ago about the lack of help. He related to me that since unemployment is so low in our area that all he gets are the dregs, a few between jobs people and a some retirees that want to work special hours. His most interesting comment was that they had what looked like six promising young guy applicants that they brought in for interview and physicals - all failed the illicit substance test. Currently they have a notice up that they are hiring - and it looks like for about every level from managers to stock clerks. They have to compete with the ACE, Wal Mart and Target NE distribution centers that start people at $14 - $16 an hour vs the HD $10. They also have to compete with other big boxes that have proliferated locally that pay about the same that may be closer to their homes. Unfortunately, this is a fairly wealthy area (wotinhel am I doing here then?) in which 90 plus percent of the local kids go on to higher education and only has about 3.5% unemployed:HMMM: .

Not sure how well Ft Myers is doing now - haven't been there in about 18 months (sold my property there in Dec'05) , but my recollection is that you have about the same problem with the lack of employable service/mercantile business folks plus, to make it interesting, a large transient population.

Service industry employables = a national problem but local impact. Sometimes:eek: I think the UK has the right idea. You take a set of tests, I believe, after your 8th year. Good grades and test scores, you go on to a university prep curriculum. Not so good, you go on to service industry and a trade curriculum. It seems to balance out - everybody seems to have a job. I can get into the negatives of that, but since my typing skills are not the greates, wont for now except to say that in the US - wont happen !!

One of my other hobbies is woodcarving, mostly wildlife, waterfowl and birds of prey.
Needless to say I go through a lot of sandpaper,
I've found that I can double, sometimes triple all my sandpapers service duty by using this.
I know it's intended use is for belts, but let me tell you it works on ALL your sanding tools. Belts, drums, discs, cones, and even sheets.http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=271
I cut mine in half and gave half to my buddy.
That was at least 7 years ago and I suspect I have another 10 years to go before I need a new one.
Here is a source for your Norton Wet/Dry
Try here-http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5416

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Originally Posted by Supa Roosta

One of my other hobbies is woodcarving, mostly wildlife, waterfowl and birds of prey................
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Here is a source for your Norton Wet/Dry
Try here-http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5416

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Thanks - now I know where my Norton came from but unfortunately our local store closed a couple of months ago. The owner just plain got tired of 24/7 work and gave it up!!

I can at least order paper now - along with a cleaner bar that I had looked at many times, but had always thought it was too good to be true.