Anyone who thinks glass rods are easier to build than steel, come on over to my house and help me block my '34 Coupe.
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Anyone who thinks glass rods are easier to build than steel, come on over to my house and help me block my '34 Coupe.
This thing has more curves than the chorus line at the Lido. And, if you have an uneven area, there's no hammering it out. I'm glad Gibbon used a good gelcoat/primer, otherwise, this would be a nightmare.
By the way, the gelcoat/primer is one of the FEW good things about this body.
It'll be fine when it's done, but that's due to MY hard work, not THEIRS.
I've done a lot of 'glass car paint over the years. I've worked on really nice 'glass, and really bad 'glass. There are a few things I've decided are the minimum requirement. A body that has enough thickness to maintain a decent surface, any extra panels have to fit within reason, and no more than a few dozen pinholes. Anything else is useable.
I haven't seen any bodies that are paint ready when they come out of the molds. There is always some shinkage, especially where inner panels are bonded. Other issues involve the condition of the original "mold plug" body, curing speed, which can cause warping, or parts that aren't completely cured, and the condition of the molds.
If I had to choose the most important thing, it is thickness of 1/8th inch or more. You can't overcome that, if it isn't there.
On the other hand, I prefer 'glass over rusty steel, if I were building a "keeper". Once it's done, I wouldn't worry about old problems resurfacing later.
One thing I don't have to worry about is thin glass. It's heavy duty - too heavy in some spots.
Gibbon didn't use a single mold. For some reason, they mold the parts in about as many pieces as Henry Ford did, then they bond them together. That makes for a lot of extra work at the joints. Fortunately, they did most of that at the shop. They did a fair job at fitting the trunk lid and the doors also. There weren't many pin holes either. The hood and grille shell . . . well, that's another story.
hi there, i just finished a dearborn duece and it wasn't all that great. i was surprised at how much time and effort was needed to get the thing ready for paint.
For the guys who like metal bodywork, I've seen a couple metal rod bodies, from different manufacturers, and I reached the same conclusion....nobody's product is perfect. If it's a consolation, that is a minor concern in the scheme of things. Just plan on some "finish work" before paint, as part of the building process.Quote:
Originally posted by painter77
hi there, i just finished a dearborn duece and it wasn't all that great. i was surprised at how much time and effort was needed to get the thing ready for paint.
I do a lot of bikes, and as a general rule, I don't care who made it....I don't care how much it cost....that new sheetmetal's gonna need some work! Some need a little, and some need a lot. Many guys assume that it's straight, but from my experience, they should assume it's NOT.
Even in the world of original cars, this is also true. Things only need to be out-of-straight a few thousandths to show up under a high gloss finish. I did a '57 Chevy delivery a while back. Before he brought it to me, he paid a dealership bodyman to strip it, rough out the body, and get it into primer. I guidecoated it, blocksanded, and started glazing in the imperfections. He called to see if I'd started painting color yet. I told him that 40 to 50 years results in a lot of minor damage. He asked me how many spots, so I counted them. He was shocked there were 186 touchups, after the initial "roughout" of the bodywork. He even had to run over to the shop to see for himself. The experienced painters out there know this is not that unique!
:-)~ ......and some people thing all we have to do is shake the can really good, and spray on that glassy look! LOL!
Amen brother on the work required to finish a glass body.
My Lonestar body combined with my skill level are definitely trying my patience. However I still like glass bodies and floors. You can really make nifty repairs and mods.
On the plus side my vinylester-glass body is extremely light. My son and I toss(ed) it around with ease.
And it doesn't dent or rust and willl require centuries to rot away :p
Regards Kitz
Fiberglass is a lot of tedious prep work I agree, but try to do a resto on a model A - without any plastic fillers. Now your living tough. Same principal as fiberglass, only harder to move and add to.
Henry wasn't real precise either, only now it's rusted so it's re-skin, or lead.
You have to admit though- the harder the work, the more pride you can take in a job well done.
My hat is off to guys who do the final body prep for painting. It is the part of building a car I hate the most. Hours and hours of blocking, filling, etc. aren't my idea of how to spend an exciting evening.
A good friend of mine is a top notch body man. A few years ago I built my Jeep truck and just wanted it to look presentable. So I stripped the body, primed it, filled the bad spots, primed some more, blocked, and generally spent the better part of a month getting it ready to shoot. My friend stopped by when I thought it was ready for paint, and said " you really aren't going to paint that yet, are you?" He pointed out a bzilliion flaws, and said if I painted it now it would look horrible.
So we wheeled it into his shop and spent another week of evenings DA-ing, filling, and priming some more, and I was amazed at the low and high spots he found. When it finally got shot I have to admit, it was now pretty straight.
Body work is one of those tasks best left to guys, like some on this forum, who have the eye and hands to do this stuff. I just don't have the patience and abilty to see those little flaws that it takes to do this kind of work.
Don
I absolutely agree with you.
I did my first ever body work and painting on the bottom of my 32. Enlarged the trans tunnel in-situ, fixed some flaws, etc.. It was a great measuring stick for what is to come with the topside for me.
And yeah I basically shot it after becoming weary of messing with it rather than having it perfect. But I figure it would cost more than $10k easy to have a shop do all this work and I don't have the resources for it as all my money is in the mechanical areas.
When I finish the top side I already know it ain't gonna be perfect. But I will have put plenty off effort into it, it will look really good, and I'll be proud of it. And no one will believe I did it myself :)
Kitz
Just got done with my '32 I have a total of 304 hours total in the body and paint.....but it is now flawless
Not really that unusual to put hundreds of hours into a street rod finish. If it's an original car, you have 75 years of wear and tear. If it's a 'glass car, you have the flaws that were in the original it was cast from, plus some manufacturing flaws due to shrinkage in the glass and such. If it's a steel car, you have the flaws that will be in the stamping dies. These companies can't spead that cost over a few million bodies, so they have to spend a lot less on the dies than a new car manufacturer would, so it is going to be a compromise.Quote:
Originally Posted by iceburgh
Compounding the problem is the high level of professionalism that the hobby has risen to. Todays older, more astute builder expects a much higher level of workmanship, than the high school kids who built these in the '50s. What is now a "street and show paint finish", was the "full-blown showcar finish" of the past. Rods have truely become rolling art, except, of course rat rods, which are more like a comfortable old sweatshirt, complete with holes and stains. :-)~
I agree.... I have been to shows that teh cars just blow you away and you try and look as good as they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by HOTRODPAINT
Here is what mine looks liek now and should have the front end on in the next day or 2
Very nice!
iceburgh... what brand of body and chassis did you use
I like it! Those open headers are going to get you in trouble though...just kidding
www.nnfiberglass.com
I am very happy with what I got from them.
Henry Rifle & All
I'm checking into a Gibbon 32 Ford 3 window that a gentlemen bought new about 10-15 years ago. He bought a p&j chassis to go with it and almost all the parts to assemble it. Poor guy got divorced and lost all interest in the car. I have not seen the car yet as it is out of state. The reason I'm writing you guys... I've read where some had problems with the Gibbon body. The one I'm going to check into apparently is one of his Dad's creations. The fellow that I spoke with said the Gibbon factory had moved to SC since he had bought the body. Can you give me some insight about this old of a body. Nothing has been done to the car. It is just setting in his garage. It has a rootlieb hood.
thanks and look forward to talking with you guys on the build up.
I had the same Gibbon body that was made in dad's shop around 1990 (though Kyle was "production manager" then). Most of what Jack has had to deal with I had too. Specifically the deck lid fit to the quarter panels was total crap. I ended up having to build up the deck lid to match, and revised the line of the upper quarters. The upper drip rail section for the deck lid opening had to be sectioned to improve fit. The method of hanging the hinges was semi-mickey mouse (with huge apologies to Mickey).
While the outer door gaps were pretty okay, just needed some fine tuning (not really untypical for any body if you're picky about fit), the inside gaps around the door openings to the inner door shells was big enough to throw a herd of cats through. Doing a normal upholstery trim out and windlace wouldn't have covered it. I ended up building out the door opening some, and the door shell, to tighten it up. I reinforced the floor with some coremat after glassing in the trans tunnel (they were separate back then) because it was too flexible without it. The mating seam around the firewall to the cowl was really hacked and needed a lot of filler to smooth out. As with Jack's body, when they bonded the floor in they just wadded a bunch of glass mat in the corners which looked both crappy and marginal. Some grinding and re-bonding took care of that. I built my own steel structure inside the firewall to add strength to the cowl area, as well as giving a structure to hang the dash and steering column from (Gibbon didn't do that), and I added some more steel structure behind the seat when I took out the wood package shelf Gibbon put in to gain more room to move the seat back for leg room, and then added a plywood bulkhead there, again for strength as well as to aid upholstery. The garnish moldings were a complete joke (though nothing to laugh about). They needed to be completely reworked to begin to come close to fitting. After all that it was just the normal stuff of filling low spots, and knocking down high spots, adjusting fit from panel to panel, and so on. Unless you're an experienced body man, you might not see these problems when it's in shiny gell coat. If you've got "the eye" and a good hand you'll be able to see/feel lots of areas that need work.
The world in 1990 wasn't as vast as today. Sadly, with all it's faults, the Gibbon was probably the best '32 3 window on the market at the time if you wanted correct body reveal detail, and a not too radical top chop. Since then several other companies have brought out better examples. If I were to do glass again today I'd step up and get the Wescott body. The savings in repair/modify/impove labor would be well worth it. If I were to really dream, I'd go for the Brookville steel repop. They're absolutely gorgeous!!! Otherwise, if the guy is going to give you the body, and you have plenty of time to kill and the skill, go for it.
......looks Fantastic!!! ;) .... by the way, how much is the top chopped??? Thanks, bill
Thanks for the input Bob. I don't know if I have the skill or that much time to kill! i'm sort of new to this and was not wanting to get into a major reconstruction job. I wanted something to assemble and call it my own. The fella is not giving it away, even though he is taking a loss on the whole package. My brother-in-law lives down the street from him and has known him his whole life. He told me the fella doesn't by junk and has built rods his entire life. I didn't realize there was that much work to do to a body bought from a factory. I did expect some minor body work, but i don't want to get into a major project and dump loads of money on body work.
The man also has a 37 plymouth that is a driver that i have not seen. I may go that direction. don't see many of those around at the meets. Its a two door sedan that BIL says is pretty sharp. I would like to hear more about the Gibbon Fiberglass body (33 Ford 3 window). Talked with BIL last night and he said he knows it is at least 15 years old. I thought just maybe the older ones were better than the ones his son built. Any opinions out there?
It looks great, Iceburgh! Color combination is great, and that spreader bar with the lights is really first class!!! Nothing in the world prettier then a Deuce frame done right! Congrats on a really outstanding job!!! This is where all the extra hours really start showing in the fit, finish, and detail. Very well done!!!
Bob your old Gibbon body sounds a lot like my Lone Star body! I am going to have to fill out the deck lid greatly to get it looking right and the door gaps leave a lot to be desired. I'm sure my give a damn is going to wear out before I get it looking perfect though. And I don't think I will mind a couple of cats jammed in the door openings :LOL:
Regards, Kitz
Here's my take. I wouldn't touch another Gibbon body - old or new - without a complete, detailed inspection for quality of fit. Unfortunately, that type of inspection is difficult to do, because there are so many details to evaluate that some of them just don't occur to you until the construction and fitting is underway. I should have been more picky on the Gibbon body I have, but I wasn't. Luckily, I have the ability to make it work.
There is a second reason for not buying an older Gibbon body, and that's the resistance to heat (sunshine) of the resin that they use. The technical name is the Heat Distortion Factor (HDT) it tells you whether or not your body is going to be stable when it sits in the hot sun. Low temp resins (general purpose) will deform under heat, and the glass cloth pattern can print through the paint. That's why some body manufacturers recommend that you "sun cure" your car, and/or you not paint it black. I have no confidence that Gibbon EVER used a high-temp resin - even back when Dwight was making the bodies. I strongly suspect that they used a general purpose resin, what I call a "camper shell" quality. Cheap, but not the best for a car - especially a dark one. Bottom line, if the correct resin is used, the car is "cured" when you get it, and you can paint it any color you like. Wescott and Redneck are two companies that I know use high-temp resin, much like that use in the aircraft industry.
Another reason is that Gibbon Bodies have been fabricated with a chopper gun rather than hand-laid fiberglass. Gibbon always claimed that was the best way to do it. But as far as I know, they were the only widely distributed firm that did it that way. With a chopper gun, it is difficult to get the resin to catalyst mixture correct, and that mixture is critical in the proper curing of the glass. I would NEVER touch a chopper gun car again.
The final reason is that Gibbon makes their bodies in many pieces and bonds them together with bondo. That gives rise to several problems. I found a couple of places where the bondo didn't cure properly. They obviously didn't mix it well. With a bunch of parts bonded together, you have a lot of seams to work out. It also makes for a very sloppy interior. Redneck and other quality manufacturers make their bodies in a true plug mold. They pull the whole body (not including fenders, of course) from one mold. All you have to do on those, assuming a good layup, is smothing out the parting lines and blocking the body.
On the other hand, Pete and Jakes chassis are pretty darn good. I wouldn't hesitate to use one again. Also, the Slovers are excellent to work with.
Read about resins and construction on Redneck's site. This is not just their hype. I have other references that say the same thing.
http://www.redneckstreetrods.com/advantage.html
I guess my only exception would be if I inspected a Gibbon body, found it to be generally ok . . . and then could buy it for half price or less, I'd think about it . . . but probably still wouldn't touch it.
Hey Jack,
You got that Gibbon blocked and primed yet?
What about you iceburgh? that 32 appeared just about done a couple of weeks ago.
So you bought it?
I got it done ( well for the most part) still need to do a few things in the interior but they should be done soon. Hoping to be able to get it complete and head to Ocean City in 2 weeks and then York.
......here is a pic
Iceburgh
That is one awesome duece!!! One of the best that I've seen.
Jack,
I haven't bought anything yet. the picture album to the 32 project is supposed to arrive today. Some of the local rodders with families (i have 2 kids 11-13) have advised me not to do the coupe thing... go sedan. I love the coupes though and I believe the 32 that you know about is a good buy if everything about it is true.
Hey Iceburgh
Good job man the car looks cool.:toocool: My 32 coupe is also a n&n but I bought it from Rich at H.B. Classics, over all the body on the car wasn't all that bad for all the horror stories that I heard about glass cars. Hopefully I'll be posting pics of it very soon.
Rocky
Iceburgh,
Do you have pictures on the build of your 32?
Thanks Joe.... It is what I had hoped for and this was my 1st build.
Her eis a link with TONS of pictures
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...0street%20rod/
Rocky I did the same thing. I talked with N&N and they told me about Rich plus he is fairly close and a great guy
Iceburgh - thats a great looking car! I keep an look out for it at York. Would like to get a closer look. Enjoy OC, I going to Hershey this year. Hope to see you at the Nats East.
Bob
Bob,
I will be at the Meguiars truck with the car. There will be a few of us working there just ask for Jim
Anyone have any experience with, and opinions on RODLINE INTERNATIONAL in the U.K. (32 3-window w/stock roof height, and CUSTOM MOTORS, INC., Jerseyville, IL (33/34 Ford 3-window w/stock roof height)? Also, if neither of these vendors works, I may go with a 32 3-window w/least chop available. Ideas? I've read good things about N&N Fiberglass in Arkansas.
Thanks everyone
RL, don't know anything about Rodline or Custom Motors but N&N Fiberglass are nice cars. I bought mine from Rich at H.B. Classics in Stewartstown Pa. he's a really good guy to do business with. (hbclassics.com)
Rocky
Quote:
Originally Posted by rltaylor46
if you buy a N&N body you WILL be pleased . these guys are great to deal with and make a super body . duane is a stand up guy if he tells you something count on it !
. . . and if Kenny says it, you can believe it.
I agree with the N&N car.... Rich from HB is a dealer for them and is a great guy or buy direct from Duane....both will do what ever they need to , to make you happy and help you out