Rust control, Primer/Prep.

Hey Guy's ,

I need some advise on Rust control, Primer/Prep. so I have a Question, I've been away from Painting for quite awhile, I'm envious of Ya'll out in the Southwest, here in Sunny Florida ( Sometimes ) the Humidity is beyond words, on certain days you can sand or sandblast a part and actually see the part start to rust. A paint rep told me some years back they ran tests and it took 4 Seconds for the rust to start. Question ; I'm getting close to putting my frame in primer ,I've been putting it off while I fabricate and weld on the numerous small brackets and mounting points for all of the little stuff that needs to be added. Just having a heck of a time contending with all of the Rust. I plan on using PPG Color ( Pearl Orange ) and would like to stay with their products throughout the project, I want the frame to Look as good as the body, ( 32 3 Window Highboy ) What Primer is recommended and do I use a Hi Build ? Epoxy ? or What ? Sand ,or Blast,Metal Prep/Rinse/Degrease/Dry& Prime ? If anyones seen the HotRods and Horse Power Deuce High-Boy Give Away Car for Good Guys .That is the color I'm looking for I was told it is an "03" Lamborgini " Orange Glow " would anyone know the Paint Code ? Thanks in advance for any replys
Thanks Tim

I've never had to deal with rusting at that level. I would talk to the local paint stores to see how other local painters deal with it.

One of the things that bothers me is that if guys can't see rust, they thing it hasn't started. I've been told that it can start on a microscopic level, before it is visible.

As far as I know, all of the common cures involve phosphoric acid. It is in metal prep, and in self-etching primer. It changes rust from iron oxide, (which is an ongoing process) to iron phosphate (which just lays there)!

I can understand living with hurricanes, in Florida, but if the rust is that bad.........! :-)

man do i know where your coming from tim,i live in jacksonville,it`s not as bad as deland but close.I lived in debary and orange city for a couple of years so i know, i`m having the same problems,i don`t have a shop so i`m doing my work in the driveway,i`m chopping my roof ,so i work in small area`s then spray paint that spot to cut down an rust until i`m ready sand the whole car,lots of extra work , but if i did`nt do it rust would eat the whole roof. If any body can help please give me a better solution

My problem is when I rinse the metal prep off, the car starts to dry and rust forms immediately.

I',ve taken to not using the metal prep, I just sand to bare metal, dust off, put a little Ospho on trouble spots and Epoxy Prime. If I don't use any water, I don't have any rust.

Don't know if this is the right way, but I haven't found another solution.

Scott

Maybe I can shed a little light on the situation. I, too, live in Florida (Titusville) and have been in and around bodywork for over 40 years...

Metal Prep is an acid. Its purpose is to dissolve microscopic rust and etch the surface of NEW metal so that primer & paint will stick to it. If you have ground or sanded the metal it is already etched. You won't need to use Metal Prep unless visible rust has formed. (This would be a golden cast to the bare metal. If the rust is actually red-brown and you can feel it, you will have to sand it off again.) While your work area is still in bare metal, wipe it with Conversion Coating. This is a liquid that is rich in Zinc. The Zinc will attach itself to the steel surface and protect against rust. It is only one molecule thick, however, and will not pretect the metal indefinitely. It must be followed immediately with primer. If you are working outside you need a waterproof epoxy primer.

If you are using Metal Prep, it goes on first and is dried off with clean rags or paper towel. Next comes the Conversion Coating. Excess is wiped off again and follow as soon as possible with primer or primer-sealer.

Hope this helps...

Tim,
You might take a look here :
http://www.ppg.com/cr-refinish/phase1/frmHome.asp

And click on the Product Information -Pant lines - Deltron , then on the left side , you will see " View by Category" click the drop down window till you see " other " then look to the bottom for the DX metal conditioners/ product sheet . it will pop up a PDF file and you can read up on what you need .
Same goes for the paint you want to use , I recommend using DBU or DBC base coat clear coat system ( which is the Deltron Line ) .

Take a look around that site and read on the DPLF epoxy sealers for using after you have the metal conditioned , then I recommend using K-36 or NCP 271 Corrosion resistant primer over the DPLF .

I can get you the PPG color number for the Lamborgini later today.

Hope this helps

SprayTech

Mcneilms, What you may be seeing, after metalprepping is not necessarily rust. The acid (phosphoric acid) converts rust, or iron oxide, into iron phoshate. The difference is that iron phosphate is inactive, and just lays there. You can paint over it and it won't deteriorate. Some times it appears gray, or has an irridescent look.

I don't know what is available to you there, but I use an R-M product (801 metal prep) that contains alcohol, and you don't rinse it. You just towel it dry. It leaves a lot less of the iron phosphate behind.

Tim ,
The Lamborghini color is : 0058
And the PPG # is : 62494/62495 & it is a Tri - Stage .

Spray

check out POR products. That stuff is supposed to be TOP NOTCH.

Has anyone used the Eastwood products they sound easy to use and the clear with tint sure sounds interesting .I'll be useing them on the inside of the car and under the fenders if i get good feed back thanks Bud