First paint project

Hi all, this is my first post here, and I realize that this seems to be a classic hotrod forum, but who better to pick the brain of than the rodders that appreciate classic muscle like myself? lol.

My only hotrod currently is an offering from the early '80s, an '83 Ford Mustang GT. I've owned this car for about 9 years, and it's been a mostly garaged project so far.
I rebuilt the original 302HO 0.30 over, bought and tweaked some factory casting heads w/1.90/1.60 valves, installed rumpity cam, RPM intake & 650 dbl. pmpr. Holley, long headers w/ Flowmaster mufflers, T-5, 3.45 geared Tracloc.
It runs out good, but, I never finished the appearance end of the project.:( :D

Last year, I started fixing any small dings that were present, after using wax/grease remover & rough sanding the faded original black paint, the car was basically straight & rust-free, replaced the front fascia to an '84 GT (found at a scrap yard for $50, and a better looking part than the '83 GT's... lower air dam w/foglight openings), moved the non-functional hilarious hood scoop forward towards the cowl 3" and molded it to the hood for a smooth look, & primed it w/ a cheap lacquer based red oxide primer/surfacer bought from a local Car Quest store which is also a PPG supplier.
I put a good coat on, then proceeded to block sand and fix any more imperfections along the way. The car is straight, except for minor fill-ins still needed, which I noticed after I wet-sanded the whole car. So, in essence, it's not quite ready, but will be without much more effort.
After doing more research on paint products, I suppose I should've used an epoxy primer over the bodywork, then a high-build surfacer for final wet-sanding?
This being my first paint project, I didn't want to invest alot of $$$ in paint products if my ability doesn't exceed my expectations or confidence.
So, I've been tossing back and forth on the issue of what type of paint to use, bc/cc or ss?
I've pretty much concluded that a metallic acrylic enamel is out of the question unless I'd be happy with orange peel and no color sanding, so I would definitely go with a solid color on the enamel.
Bc/cc is more expensive when using the best products available, but will be easier to fix defects in the clear coat.

So, my question is, will a high quality solid colored acrylic enamel be my best bet for a practice run on my elcheapo project?
Can I color sand and buff a high quality acrylic enamel finish effectively?
As in "high quality" I mean name brands....PPG, Dupont, Sherwin-Williams etc...?

My color choice will be based on how good my prep work has been so far, but I won't go back to the original black.
My choices will most likely be a bright Ford Chrome Yellow, or Hugger orange or?
Both of those colors seem to work for the fox-bodied Mustangs, but I want to do it right... jambs, trim removal, misc. parts removal, etc...

Any advice on products or application will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
:)

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Hey PT , You can get a nice job from a acrylic system but you wont be able to color sand it unless you add hardner to it. Urethane would be a better choice. As far as painting over the old stuff I would talk to the local paint supplier . I believe a good sealer would be recommended . Also, a lot of guys are using omni bc/cc , a cheaper line of ppg .
Darin

Appreciate that bit of info Darin.:)

The only thing about when buying the products at the paint supplier is, the counterman was recommending the Omni line instead of the PPG stating that a novice painter doesn't need to spend big $$$ for a first time project.
But if the finish is going to be substandard with the cheaper paint, what's the point?
I keep reading that "you get what you pay for", which is true in most cases.
Just like the cheap, non-catalized primer/surfacer he recommended for my foundation, like it wasn't that big of a deal, it'll work with single stage enamel....but how long?
I'm not sure whether or not that guy knew for sure what he was talking about. It was an auto parts store that was also a PPG dealer.

Anyhow, I thought single stage acrylic enamel requires a hardener additive regardless?
I've just read in other articles that some brands don't colorsand very well. I guess the tech sheet would tell me that? Not sure.

I will definitely be doing this myself whichever product I'm leaning towards. I just want to get some more insight from people like yourself who know for sure.;)

Here some reading for you :
http://www.ppg.com/cr-refinish/phase...Info.asp?Cat=4

If you want to read about the other quality PPG products just got to the Products Information tab and click on Paint Lines, then arrow down to Deltron , and read about the Base Coat & Concept 2K Single Stage products.

The if you want to read how to apply and what products to use under these fine products go to the left side drop down window & pull down and click on the Top Coats .

I Have used the BDU/DBC products since they came out in the late 80's with Global clear over it and never have any problems.
The concept is an excellent Single stage product and it can be sanded and buffed to an excellent shine . But it has a window where it buffs nice , then after about 4 days it rubs like cement. The sand scratches can be buffed out but it will take a little longer !
Global buffs like Butter and they have an excellent Single stage too, the price difference isnt that much .

SprayTech

I agree with you about using substandard
.I reread your post and see that you are not concerned about price, only that you were comparing ss to bc/cc in price. I believe Spraytech has directed you correctly . As far as acrylic you can shoot
with or without a hardner . I would strongly recommend a hardner on anything that allows it .

i used a gallon of 22 dollar john deere green paint and it worked better than a 230 dollar gallon so its definently not the price just look for the cheap stuff

:toocool: Thanks alot Darin & Spraytech.;)

I was actually at the PPG site earlier today, but I guess my navigation was a bit off, I knew I missed something over there.:D

Professional opinions are worth the weight in gold to me on this stuff.

I had to take my Dodge Ram truck to a body shop last summer after it was hit by tornado debris. The owner of the shop turned out to be a childhood acquaintence from my neighborhood.
I was relieved that someone who knew me would do a quality job on my truck....EEEEEEEEERNT!! Wrong answer.:mad:

I tried to be calm about the whole thing, but his prep crew were idiots, and the painter dude was a runner-up for jerk of the year....arguing with paying customers.:rolleyes:

They left junk and swirl marks in the paint, and badly orange-peeled areas around the side windows weren't even colorsanded or buffed. Re-assembly was a joke. I found a bed bolt hanging loose, the rear bumper was not aligned w/a loose bolt also, and they broke the plastic mounting points on the front grille, and got very irrate when I confronted them about it. ( they used an air-ratchet to loosen the rusty grille bolts and it snapped the plastic mounting ears....I figured that out when they were installing my NEW grille using the air ratchet....WD-40 guys...WD-40. :rolleyes: )

I didn't even complain to my insurance company, and "they" were the ones who referred me there.
If I would've played my cards right, I could've had access to the paint booth and supplies for my Mustang....the guy offered!!
But I was so disgruntled about the $4000.00 shaft job on my truck, I told 'em to **** off.

Needless to say, I won't ever trust my rides to another shop, sorry guys. But that doesn't mean I won't accept knowledgeable advice from professional bodymen.

Thanks again.;)

Usen Omni single stage urethane paint from your PPG jobber. Omni paints are 5 year old PPG tecnologies that were used as the DAU and DB line. 5 years ago they were great, why are they not so now? Single stage urethanes are sprayed like enamels and allow for sanding to remove defect. Omni or Nasons are great paints to practice on and will give you good results.

Quote:

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Originally posted by SprayTech
Here some reading for you :
http://www.ppg.com/cr-refinish/phase...Info.asp?Cat=4

If you want to read about the other quality PPG products just got to the Products Information tab and click on Paint Lines, then arrow down to Deltron , and read about the Base Coat & Concept 2K Single Stage products.

The if you want to read how to apply and what products to use under these fine products go to the left side drop down window & pull down and click on the Top Coats .

I Have used the BDU/DBC products since they came out in the late 80's with Global clear over it and never have any problems.
The concept is an excellent Single stage product and it can be sanded and buffed to an excellent shine . But it has a window where it buffs nice , then after about 4 days it rubs like cement. The sand scratches can be buffed out but it will take a little longer !
Global buffs like Butter and they have an excellent Single stage too, the price difference isnt that much .

SprayTech

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Did you mean spraying a clearcoat over a single stage product?
Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally posted by m falconstien
Usen Omni single stage urethane paint from your PPG jobber. Omni paints are 5 year old PPG tecnologies that were used as the DAU and DB line. 5 years ago they were great, why are they not so now? Single stage urethanes are sprayed like enamels and allow for sanding to remove defect. Omni or Nasons are great paints to practice on and will give you good results.

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Thanks. I'll check the price differences.
I am really concerned with price, because the car is not high value, but if i give it a decent facelift and decide to sell it, somebody might want it enough to pay the asking price.:)

Quote:

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Originally posted by P Tucker
Did you mean spraying a clearcoat over a single stage product?
Thanks.

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PPG recommends adding a compatiable clear to your single stage DCC/Concept Color.
By this : Mix your color by directions, then mix your compatiable clear by instructions, then add the 2 together.
I have done this on every DCC I have done. First coat sprayed without the clear, then add clear to the next 2 coats. This makes your color go farther , and the clear has more UV protection then color does, so you get a longer lasting paint job.
I sprayed my buddies Red 88 GM truck back in 92 when we had a big hail storm , and still looks good today , but he keeps it washed and polished.
And it is garaged , but driven everyday.

Quote:

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Originally posted by SprayTech
PPG recommends adding a compatiable clear to your single stage DCC/Concept Color.
By this : Mix your color by directions, then mix your compatiable clear by instructions, then add the 2 together.
I have done this on every DCC I have done. First coat sprayed without the clear, then add clear to the next 2 coats. This makes your color go farther , and the clear has more UV protection then color does, so you get a longer lasting paint job.
I sprayed my buddies Red 88 GM truck back in 92 when we had a big hail storm , and still looks good today , but he keeps it washed and polished.
And it is garaged , but driven everyday.

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Gotcha. Sounds like a plan. :toocool:

I am trying to do a first time paint job too. But the fiber glass body which was long on cheap and short on quality control has more waves that a tsunami. I just cannot get the contoured surfaces right. I have worked on it for so long in my rare spare time. Sometimes I am up about it and other times down. Last night was one of the down times. A solution finally occurred to me. Do you think anybody would notice if I just covered it with padding and carpet instead of painting it? Ha!!

Rick

[QUOTE]Originally posted by P Tucker Hi tuck I use ta live in Indy, prbly gonna be back there this weekend. I guess its a sign of the times when a business can charge money turn out crapola work be hostile to the customer and argue about their stupid mistakes. Then stay in business. Here in the Ozarks its moe larry curly and abbot and costello every time u try to get something done. The locals treat customers like they are tourists and they brag about getting visitors money before they go home. Sooner or later it catches up with them.
[B]:toocool: Thanks alot Darin & Spraytech.;)

I was actually at the PPG site earlier today, but I guess my navigation was a bit off, I knew I missed something over there.:D

Professional opinions are worth the weight in gold to me on this stuff.

I had to take my Dodge Ram truck to a body shop last summer after it was hit by tornado debris. The owner of the shop turned out to be a childhood acquaintence from my neighborhood.
I was relieved that someone who knew me would do a quality job on my truck....EEEEEEEEERNT!! Wrong answer.:mad:

I tried to be calm about the whole thing, but his prep crew were idiots, and the painter dude was a runner-up for jerk of the year....arguing with paying customers.:rolleyes:

They left junk and swirl marks in the paint, and badly orange-peeled areas around the side windows weren't even colorsanded or buffed. Re-assembly was a joke. I found a bed bolt hanging loose, the rear bumper was not aligned w/a loose bolt also, and they broke the plastic mounting points on the front grille, and got very irrate when I confronted them about it. ( they used an air-ratchet to loosen the rusty grille bolts and it snapped the plastic mounting ears....I figured that out when they were installing my NEW grille using the air ratchet....WD-40 guys...WD-40. :rolleyes: )

I didn't even complain to my insurance company, and "they" were the ones who referred me there.
If I would've played my cards right, I could've had access to the paint booth and supplies for my Mustang....the guy offered!!
But I was so disgruntled about the $4000.00 shaft job

Hey spraytech , I have been thinking
about trying the clear and concept mix you described. Do you think the southernpoly
clear ( if you have heard of this line ) would be compatible? They claim to have an excellent clear . (3500 is the product #) Also If the southern poly
is compatible , what do toy believe the
window would be to buff ? You know I mentioned adding clear to the final coat of a ss paint job on another forum and they thought I was crazy. I believe this would be a more durable paint job than a bc/cc job Thanks Darin

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Darin
Hey spraytech , I have been thinking
about trying the clear and concept mix you described. Do you think the southernpoly
clear ( if you have heard of this line ) would be compatible? They claim to have an excellent clear . (3500 is the product #) Also If the southern poly
is compatible , what do toy believe the
window would be to buff ? You know I mentioned adding clear to the final coat of a ss paint job on another forum and they thought I was crazy. I believe this would be a more durable paint job than a bc/cc job Thanks Darin

---

Darin,
I highly do not recommend mixing different brands of paint at all. If there is a problem with spraying , or a problem down the line , PPG will not stand behind their product !!!! If you use their products bottom to top they will help you out .
This usually goes with any major brand paint company today !

SprayTech

Thanks , Spraytech. I sort of figure that
. You are right about ppg taking care of
a problem atleast my paint supplier did last year on about 400.00 bucks worth
of bc/cc . One more question , how do you compare a bc/cc using dbu base with
the best clear coat vs concept with the best clear added on the last couple coats as you described . One thing that bothers me about bc/cc is it seems I see a lot of lifting of the clear coat on non factory jobs. Seems to me ss ( concept) with clear added would eliminate that problem. As I said earlier I posted on another forum that some guys were adding clear on the last coat of ss jobs and the other guys nearly
cut my throat for even mentioning it. I have been going back and forth with the bc/cc vs ss for the last year while I get my 40 ford coupe ready to paint . Thanks Darin

If you are going to go with a solid color , DCC/ Concept with the 2002 clear added will give you a nice job.

Less times walking around the car spraying.

If its a metallic/pearl I would advise going DBU with global clear over it .

I have sprayed DBU since it came out in like 1987 and have never seen a lift problem .
DBU doesnt have a lift cycle, if it lifts something was done wrong.
DBC I have also sprayed but I use the added hardner to it to lock the base faster ( makes it like DBU as it has reactive reducer for faster dry times). DBC does have a lift cycle if you have to break the clear before it has gassed out before 2 or 3 days.
So I stay with DBU as I can push it to the extremes and not have any problems.
I also have been using Global D893 Clear over the top of it as ithas no solvent pop problems like the other PPG clears, as I have a down Draft booth with a heat makeup on it and cook all my jobs at 140 deg. for 40 minutes. Global buffs real nice and fast , I let it cool down for 30 minutes and I can buff any small dirt specks and be done in just a few minutes.

Hope this helps
SprayTech

Thanks , I have been painting since I was about 14 and just in the last few years ( after a lay off ) have had experience with bc/cc . I bet most of the jobs I have seen were just the average bodyshop(not to throw off on anybody here with a paint and body repair business there are some good ones out there )where they do insurance repair work,they probably rush everything and more than likely use a cheaper paint and could be that they use a bc without a hardner . The reason I am
interested in the ss with clear is I have used ss quite a lot over the years mostly
acrylic enamel on tractors with hardner
and a few cars that I built or dcc on some of the nicer cars that I have done and so forth. I like the fact that on ss you can shoot the car in less steps. This car will be one of the best have done since my early years . As I posted on another thread I
started out years ago with hand rubbed laquer . It was a pain as you know but it was a very good looking finish . Later I
started using ss finishes and got good results . The car Iam doing now is a 40 ford coupe, probably one of the best
(or atleast most valuable) cars I have ever done. It will be solid yellow with
perhaps a flame job . If I decide to do a flame jobI guess a bc/cc will work best although years ago all the flame jobs were done on ss or enamel jobs, the only draw back was you could feel the flames if you rubbed your finger across them ( which everybody does) . I don,t mind that so bad being that i grew up admiring the 50 to60,s hot rods That is what i am doing with this car. yellow, possible flames, rolled and pleated twotone interior ( yellow and white)
gennie wheels with orig caps and rings
( wheels painted same as car) and wide white walls . Thanks again for your input . Darin

Darin,
You do know you can spray PPG's 2002 Clear or their spot clear 2042 over your flames & yellow SS, then sand and buff, to help eliminate or smooth out that paint edge . And not add the clear to your color , use the clear you buy to lay over everything instead of adding it to your yellow .Just a litttle advice. ;)

Or you can have a pin stripe layed around the flame tape edges to help with the nasty paint edge. Plus it will give some extra POP on them flames :3dSMILE:


I strickly use the BC/CC as all cars and trucks today are BC/CC , plus I work on 45K-95K cadillacs and cant afford to have my jobs looking like crap, as SS doesnt match if your doing a spot repair !


SprayTech

Love the pinstripe . I agree it really makes a flame job stand out but I know of no one in my area that does it and not sure of the cost. Got any idea what it cost to pinstripe
a typical flame job ? ( Sounds too vague?)

That would have to be on the striper him/herself on the price.
I have a lady I have known almost 25 years do our stripes on the Cadillacs at work. Looks like factory painted stripes instead of me masking them out and spraying the color.

I think she charges around 30-50 a side to stripe. depends on if they are 1 color or 2 color stripes too .

Surely you have a Sign painter close to you ,these guys are good with a brush. Might give them a try.
Never know till you ask :)