Hello! I need advice on a possible restoration project...

Greetings,

I'm brand new to the vehicle restoration world, but a certain classic car has caught my eye and I want to know how crazy you think I am for taking it on.

I am looking to purchase a 1941 Cadillac Hearse. It's several states away and I have been talking to the seller via email. He has sent several pictures and has been very kind to answer my questions, but I'll admit, I don't know if I'm asking the right ones.

I'm handy and I learn quick. I've rebuilt a couple of motorcycles, but never a car.

I know that this will be a long-term project and I know I'll put way more into it than I could ever get out, but I love the look of the car. I'm not looking to do a perfectly authentic, all original restoration on this hearse. I'd like to add my own touches here and there on the interior. I also don't know what I want to do about the engine, so one of my first questions to the forum is, "what engine(s) will fit into a 1941 Cadillac 75 comercial?"

So, please take a look at the pics and tell me what questions I should be asking!

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...e-collage1.jpg

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...e-collage2.jpg

Welcome to CHR, the Caddy appears to be in quite good shape.

A word of caution, this car would be a serious project, especially for a first time project! It would be quite labor intensive and eat up a lot of bucks, too... My first concern would be the "burn out factor".... A project of this size and scope is going to take a lot of planning before the work even begins. A thorough inventory would be the first thing, what's there, what's good, and what needs to be replaced? Are the parts available that you will need, or will they have to be fabricated? You should decide on an overall theme for the project, then plan your work and purchases around that theme. Without a well thought out plan the project could easily become very overwhelming for anyone!!!!

Do you have the facility, tools, equipment, and ability to take the project on? The car is HUGE and will take up 3 times that much room when you began taking the car apart and still allowing room to work on it!

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just wanting to give you some points to ponder before taking the project on.

it is going to take alot longer and cost alot more than you could ever plan for. If i was you i would take stock of what my skills really are. What kind of help I will need. and finally what kind of tools and room do i have. My biggest thing when looking at a old car is what kind of shape the frame is in. I believe that after reading alot of what the guys here do they can do anything. but a solid frame is a great start. on the other hand that is a very great looking car. i love the style. as for the engine i would pull up the specs for that year and see what they came with. then go from there. but you can fit almost anything into anything else with enough money. with that red cross and the flooring it looks more like a ambulance than a hearse. finding parts for the interior and such might be a problem. but you can always work around that.

Building rods and customs is an expensive hobby. You have to plan to get much of your money back as enjoyment. If you do that AND get lucky at the time of sale... you win twice. Otherwise just enjoy the experience.

dave you and i must have been typing at the same time :)

The frame is straight and solid with minimal surface rust. The '41 came with a 346 V8. I don't know if the engine in the caddy is the original 346 or not. The seller says the engine is "not running" and I haven't heard back as to whether or not the crank pulley will turn.

Cadillac did not have an OHV V-8 in 1941. Someone has already been hacking on it.

So the engine currently in the hearse is not the original engine, but an Overhead Valve Engine. Can you identify the engine or year? If I ask the seller, is there somewhere on the block he can look to identify the make/model/year?

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...cHearse001.jpg

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...cHearse002.jpg

As to what engine will fit, in the late 60's there was a Cadillac LaSalle hearse, 39 I believe, that was running a 426 Hemi. it ran at Lions on Sundays.

the 37 flat head block and up had side mounts on the block so i would not call it a hack job the over head engine would be a bolt in at that point the rest hard to say . just about any engine would fit. but i would say away from the caddy flat heads $$$ hard engine to find not hurt or needing alot of work .i would go with a 500 caddy or just about any thing GM would fit like a bbc you have alot to move so you want a big v8 and auto trans like a 4 speed or a 400 3speed with over drive looks like its all there body is solid

Welcome to CHR!

Like others, I would also caution you to very carefully evaluate this as “first project”. There’s an old saying, “time, cost, quality – pick any two.” If you want to build this car without breaking the bank you need to be able to invest a ton (and I mean a TON) of time. If you want it done quick – be prepared to take a second mortgage on your house. I agree it’s a unique and (strangely?) appealing car, but it could easily consume $25 grand in a heartbeat and still be a long way from something that you’d enjoy driving. Dave is spot on with his advice on “burn out” and there are a whole lot of half finished projects available for a fraction of what’s been invested in them.

As to engine(s) – you can make just about anything fit into anything. Ask Barb about stuffing a Caddie motor in a Monte Carlo! – She our resident expert here and could tell you a lot of what she learned and about the little things that need not only fabrication skills but a real good understanding of physics and engineering, i.e., leverage, inclines, direction changes, alignment and a host of other opportunities when transplanting engines and drive trains. I’ve stuffed big blocks into Novas, but have stayed within the Chevy family where there’s a plethora of aftermarket parts and I still end up machining a bracket or linkage here and there. I’ve carved a lot of big aluminum bar stock into little clevises and bell cranks over the years because try as I might, the factory parts just don’t meet my expectations – be prepared to do a lot of this in a restoration of this magnitude.

In all likelihood – you’ll be miles ahead to get a full size “donor” car (big Gm, i.e., Caddie, Buick, Olds or Chevy) and plan on grafting engine and drive train. Don’t discard the possibility of using a late model Suburban - 454 with 4 speed automatic and 12 bolt rear end – ¾ ton disc brakes all around, tilt column, nice buckets, etc. would be a good base to build on realizing that there will be a lot of fabrication for fitment, but a complete vehicle will make compatibility with controls a lot less work.

You’d need a lot of commitment (and as already mentioned, a big garage!) to tackle this project. My advice is to walk away from this one look for a project that’s nearly complete and finish with your touch or even better, buy one that close to what you’re itchin’ for and drive it for a while to see if you’ve truly been bit by the hot rod bug!

If you do decide to “go for it” – make written plans to address everything you’d like to do. Buy or borrow the correct tools – don’t be afraid to ask for help and get a second set of eyes on a component if you have questions. Hot rodders are truly a bunch of guys and gals who love to help – if approached with a contrite and open attitude that shows you’re willing to listen (you’ve shown a great start by coming to this site!) Go slow and be willing to wait for a part that you really want. You’ll rue the day you settle for less on a component rather than save a bit and buy what you really know you’d like!

Let us know what you decide – there’s a lot of help here and several “long term projects”..

Regards,
Glenn

I really appreciate all the advice you've all provided so far. It's a lot of help.

I know I need to table my excitement with some practicality. As much as I want to own a classic hearse, I know it's a huge commitment in time, money, and space. I have a two car garage, but a 21 foot long hearse is not going to fit inside it. (my garage is only 19 feet long from wall to door.)

So this means I would need to keep it in an unheated out building. I have a narrow area I could park a long vehicle, but I'd need to take things into the garage to work on them (like the engine).

If there was a smaller version of a classic 1940s hearse available - even if it was some sort of fabricated kit that fit on a modern frame, I'd be interested in looking at it -- but so far, I haven't been able to find anything like that.

All of these concerns have led me to this site, where I'm hoping to get answers from people with passion, who have been involved in this hobby for years.

There are two hearses I am looking at right now. The first is the 1941 Cadillac. It needs a ton of work, but I love the lines of the '41.

I am also looking at a 1952 Cadillac that is in much better condition. I know the '52 is the better choice because it's a complete car with a working engine. I just worry I'm going to bring home the '52 and always feel like I settled.

Here's the ad:

"Here you have a 1952 Cadillac Hearse Limo, that Runs and Drives. Has original V8 with only 90,000 miles and 3 speed on the Column. This car also has the original Fender Skirts. Note: Does need TLC and Restoration."

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...lac_Hearse.jpg

It's been very difficult to find information on these older cars. I know the 1941 Cadillac hearse was build on the 75 commercial frame, so it has a body length of just over 21 ft. I can't find that information for the 1952 Cadillac Hearse/Ambulance. I'm guessing it's still built on the 75 commercial frame, but I can't find the dimensions. Any help?

I think you will find the engine in the 41 is a 49-55 331 Cadillac engine (definitely swapped in at some point the cars life time).

I fully understand the felling of settling for something that’s close but not exactly what you want. The 41 has a lot of potential but like the other have indicated I’m not sure that I would consider it a good first project.

I’ll make a couple of suggestions for what their worth:

Hold out for a 41 in better condition.

Buy the 52 and do what needs to be done to it. That will get your feet wet in the restoration process (to se if it’s something you really like), and give you some equity to trade up for what you want at some point.

Google is your friend: Barry's Professional-Car Links Page

Ditto on Mike's Engine ID, and cautionary remarks by others.

I may have mentioned, I'm also looking at a 1952 Cadillac Combo out of California.

If I can get the right price (I'm hoping $3,000 or lower) I think I may go with the '52. I've been talking to the owner over the past couple of weeks, and this caddy is in much better shape. It runs, the body is good, the brakes work, etc. It still needs a lot of TLC and restoration, but I believe the chassis and body to be solid.

I'm including some pictures he sent, as well as those he posted online via the Craigslist ad.

Any suggestions on questions I should ask, or things I should point out in an effort to work the price down?

Thanks for all your help!

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...ac_Hearse2.jpg

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...ac_Hearse3.jpg

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...w/P1000291.jpg

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...w/P1000383.jpg

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...w/P1000384.jpg

I do like the hearse idea and the latest one best.Just to clear up one thought I have is given the wheel base,had you considered how long of a trailer your going to need to get it home??. In fact what is the wheel base of one of those??.:confused:

My Uncle has been restoring Studebakers for several decades and has a long trailer that can haul a hearse. He also has a truck with a big enough engine to pull the trailer and a hearse.

I can't find the exact numbers for a 52-75 commercial chassis, but I know the overall length of the vehicle is just a hint over 21 ft.

I am a somewhat dissenting voice. Jump in with both feet...if the price is right. I took a shell of a 1937 Cadillac LaSalle and turned it in to a great car. If you understand that it will cost you ten times as much as you budgeta nd it will take you 5 times as long as you think it will, you will be just fine. the 41 is a far more beautiful car than the 52.

I agree, the '41 has the look that I really like. If I could have either one, fully restored, sitting in my driveway right now, I'd much rather have the '41.

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...de-by-side.jpg

As a friend of mine said, "the '41 definitely has the higher spook factor!".

Sounds as if you are "dying" to buy a hearse

You want the look to be "dead" on

You should "bury" the front end in the weeds

The look would be "killer"

Changing the lines would be a "grave" mistake

The "body" is old but not rotting

i like the roof line of the 41 the and the over all lines looks good .the 52 roof line looks like it has a baseball cap on the roof. the front windsheild just is not getting it for me .41 is better looking . the only thing i can say is what ever way you go make sure its what you want. its going to cost alot of money like many have said body work is going to be $$$$$. gallons of primer gallons of paint and rolls of sand paper alone you will be buying supplys enough to do 4 car s for just this caddy . the roof alone is bigger then most houses roofs i will not even get in to priming and blocking out Big Bertha this going to seprate the body men from the boys not a job for the weak you need a game plan and you hit it like a war

Hey, if I could find a kit car hearse that had the same lines as the '41, but was 16 feet long instead of 21 feet long, I'd seriously look at it. Even if it means going from classic steel to fiberglass. I've just never seen a kit like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tk421

Hey, if I could find a kit car hearse that had the same lines as the '41, but was 16 feet long instead of 21 feet long, I'd seriously look at it. Even if it means going from classic steel to fiberglass. I've just never seen a kit like that.

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hey you do know they sell welders and saws :) you can cut it to any size you want :)

did they make a cadilac nomad station wagon ?.. as pat said hot wrench and welder will fix anything .. i made a long wheelbase dodge truck into a short ...

I also like the looks of the 41 better. The other one looks deformed in some way. when it comes down to it i would work on what i love alot more than i would on what i settled on.

that 52 would be much easier and cheaper to do. i like it. i like the old 41 but its gona take major work and more cash.

I'm sure that by now you realize that you have associated yourself with a knowledgeable and very helpful gang of characters.

Welcome! Glad to have you.

I have some items that may interest you. When I get home I'll send you a private message about the stuff.

At one time I considered finding a hearse to fix up and re-configure. I saw one up in the Midwest (forgot where exactly) that a guy had turned into a super elegant big limousine. I'm pretty sure it was a Packard ..... or maybe a Lincoln ... anyway, it had a removable roof over the driver compartment and had fresh cut flowers in little vases on the walls.

He made a few bucks renting it out complete with a uniformed chauffeur (himself) for society weddings, hauling royalty or other big shots around, and for various other events.

He told me that he would never do prom night bashes again. It seems that teenagers don't use very good judgement when it comes to how much they can drink. I think I understand what he was telling me.

Keep us informed,


Jim

i look at both cars needing alot of work the 52 looks better as there is more stuff there but if its all junk or things you can or should not reuse like wiring . hoses . fuel line brake lines . brake hoses. engine needing a rebuild .trans .rear axle. front end. then there is stuff to be more friendly to the eyes paint body .glass .chrome you get the idea so going threw the 41 or 52 going to take the same mount of work as both shells need to be striped . both will need wiring . both brakes . both engines rebuilt . you can see were i going with this . when all said and done the 41 may be less as there less trim work. just the re chrome bumper s and trim on the 52 will be a shocker :eek:

As was mentioned a welder and torch will make the car anylength you want(with skill in that area. My concern is the 2 car garage that is only 19' long. You may want to concider a larger bulding to work in. Either add on to the one you have or build a bigger one. Looks to me your in trouble with room before even getting a car. Dosen't Wa have cold winters???
If it were me I'd vote for the 41 much nicer lines
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