I'm a new user from San Francisco looking for some advicee

Hello everyone!!! I was browsing the web trying to look for information on restoring my car and happened to stumble upon this site. I guess my goal with signing on to this site is to learn as much as possible about restoring my car and recieving as much advice as possible. I'll start by giving a brief history on how I got my car: When I was about 2 years old(1982), my dad was driving along some back country road in Sonoma and saw a '35 ford 5 window coupe on a farm with a for sale sign on it. From what my mom told me, my dad ended up buying the car for $500.00 !!! The car had been sitting in a barn for I don't know for how many years and was in surprisingly great shape. My dad ended up taking the car to a local mechanic to see if he could get the car running since a tow would have been a ridiculous amount of money. The mechanic did very minor repairs to the motor (the original flathead V8) and got it running. So my dad ended up driving the car back to San Francisco and drove it occasionally on weekends. When I was 5 years old, my dad passed away and the car sat in my grandma's garage untill a couple of weeks ago.
I just brought the car to my house to start restoring it and I'm kind of lost as far as where to start. The body and frame are in great shape...It's all steel and has hardly any rust... The motor looks like it's in pretty good shape as well...the interior is almost complete for the exception of some cloth that has rotted away. I turned the crank bolt to see if the motor was seized or not and it turned very easily wich was a complete shock to me considering that it has been sitting for so long. There are still fluids in the motor that are about 25 years old but i'm pretty confident that the motor will turn over. I don't really know where to go from here but I have a goal in mind: I want to keep the body as original ass possible except for a mild chop (maybee 2"-2.5"), I want to keep the original flat head in the car because I'm not trying to build a race car or do burn outs, I want to have modern brakes and suspension, and I want the car to be as low to the ground as possible without scraping. I've been considering air ride but who knows. I don't know much about domestic cars at all because I've owned and tuned all import cars. I don't know of any good shops around my area that are honest and won't try to rip me off and that do very good work. I am on a very tight budget and I'm willing wait and the restoration the right way, but I want to make sure that I build a driver and not a ridiculously expensive rod that never sees pavement because it's to nice to risk driving. Any advice would help and if anybody knows any reputable shops in my area please let me know. Thanks! :3dSMILE:

Welcome to here.
Sounds like you have already got a great plan, and you should go with it. It is your car, and you will be spending your money. If later, you decide to change the engine, stay Ford.
Since you are on the left course, and I am not, no help on a shop selectio

Jack

Welcome to CHR, sounds like a great plan for the '35.... Will sure be fun to do with all the family history on the car. You are 100% right on the patience deal. The more looking and shopping you are willing to do the better control you will have on expenses. I'm from the midwest, so can't help you much on shops in your area but I would suggest getting acquainted with some of the guys in your area that are into hot rods. A club is also a great source for finding leads on reputable shops to assist with the restoration..... The more scouting and checking you do, better off you'll be. Best way to evaluate a shop's work and pricing structure is to talk to their customers...... Good luck with your project!!!! Post some pics, and keep us updated on the progress.

welcome aboard, you came to the right place for an older project like yours. there is alot of experience dealing with these older cars on this board. of coarse im not one of them, but i am restoring an old car of my dads also, and know where you are coming from. except mine came from the rust belt of this great country and yours is a far greater condition to start from. your already on the right track by saying you know it will take a long time to do it right. in restoring an old car slow and easy wins the race, you cant rush quality. remember that and you will be fine with it and also no question is stupid if you dont know the answer, so ask anything you need to,

Welcome aboard. You've got a great opportunity to learn on a car with significant personal history to your family.

Let's deal with the shop thing first. The S.F. and surrounding areas have been a hotbed of hot rodding since the beginning. There are probably more shops in the area than any of us who don't live there, and are active in the hobby, could possibly know of. As an example, you have one of THE best shops in the country in South S.F., it's called Brizio's. Roy Brizio meets all your criteria, except the tight budget thing. He won't cheat you, but he doesn't give his talent and time away. But this is putting the cart before the horse.

It sounds like you've been giving some good thought to how you want the car to look style wise. There are "themes" in the hot rod hobby that go along with style. These aren't hard and fast rules, hot rodding is about modifying, but, just to give you an extreme example, you'd be looked at ascance if you plastered tuner decals all over a traditional looking ride. You could do it..............and as you'll hear nausiatingly often, "it's your car do whatever you want to it". Just not a good idea.

I'd suggest you do some more research before getting too deep into the car. History is filled with guys having more ambition than experience (knowledge) which results in a torn apart car languishing away, broken dreams, and unfulfilled desires. Go to a major magazine rack, there are several magazines aimed at this vintage/style of car, nearly all of them have a variation on the word rod in their title. You'll see cars built to all styles if you look at enough of them, and you'll see just how well developed the aftermarket parts suppliers are. Then start going to live events. There are probably some local cruise in locations where the rodders hang out. Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday nights are common, as well as Sunday afternoon. If you went to Brizio's, or any other shop others might recommend, the guys there can tell you where the gatherings are. Once you go to these events, you'll see first hand what folks have been doing. If the event big and diverse enough you'll see lots of right, and probably some wrong. Of course, part of what dictates that is your eye. But in this way you'll learn which styles wind your watch. A little conversation with the owner of each vehicle that appeals to you will give you some insight as to how they got there. Some of the folks you'll talk to did the work themselves, or at least part of it, others may have had a shop or friend do it for them. They can give you leads to shops that meet your criteria, and some of them will likely be honest about what it cost them. Yeah, you'll be b.s.'d some too...........they're hot rodders afterall.

Once you've learned what you likely want to do then you can start to realistically figure out how much time and money it's going to cost you. Don't know what your skill levels are for doing any or all the the work that lies ahead, but if you're normal you'll probably overestimate what you can do, and underestimate how long and how much it'll cost. We all do that, some of us for a lifetime. I say such things, not to discourage you, but to let you know, when you hit a bump in the rodding road, you ain't alone........lot's of guys can say, "been there, done that, but hey............I got this neat T shirt!".

Given your apparent level of experience I'd suggest you put the top chop at the bottom of your early list, That procedure, especially on a rounded car like that, requires considerable skill (and skill costs, one way or another), and a botched chop will ruin a good car in a heartbeat. Similarly the air bagging. These old Fords have a unique suspension (assuming yours is stock right now) in the modern context that, as designed, doesn't adapt to airbags. So while suspension changes aren't monumentally difficult, they would be moderately extensive on this particular car. The more you can afford to spend, the quicker and "easier" it is to accomplish. Part of why I'd strongly suggest you learn more first is that you may figure out that for your situation (whatever that might be)taking baby steps is the more sensible way to get there. For example, you might just lower the car in one of several tried and true ways (it might be info overload to try to tell you all of them at this point), without bags, and then work toward bagging later when you've got the highest priorities worked out, and the budget to get things done without wasting money on false starts.

Pictures work well in this internet environ. If you click the camera icon below my name it will take you to my photo gallery. There's a pic in there of my '36 5 window which is nearly identical to your '35. That's one style of car, built on a relatively low budget, flatty powered. If you took some pictures of what your car looks like, maybe some detail shots of the engine and underside, and interior, we'd have an idea of where to start with usable suggestions. Whole books have been written on how to do what you're asking, so the helpful folks here will pile on all sorts of suggestions, but you need to prioritize if you're on a really tight budget.

As a possible example. If your car is actually stock, it's got what's called mechanical brakes. That means your brakes are actuated by steel rods and cranks eminating from the pedal, rather than the hydraulic fluid type of system you're more likely familiar with. Personally, that would be one of the first changes I'd make, if necessary after cleaning out the fuel system, and doing whatever was needed to get the engine and trans in working order.

Posting pics here is pretty easy, just need some digital shots to post. Doing a search on here would be more good research for you, search function is in the link bar above. A few month's ago we had a thread on suspension mods on a '35 Ford, so that might give you an idea of what's in store there.

Right now, you've opened up a very broad area that could prompt a bunch of answers from helpful folks, but it would be better to give a little more info and get some better targeted responses.

I am in total agreement with all of Bob's statements. When I read your post, two things jumped out at me: Major modifications and very limited budget. The two simply do not go together. This car is a survivor and also has a strong family history, if you get 1/2 way into it and are over your head, the car will be ruined.

For example, just to have the top chopped is a major expense, unless you are capable of doing it yourself. Bagged suspension is another major hit. Even if you have those done, you are then looking at a lot more money to bring the rest of the components up to snuff.

Here is my suggestion. Walk before you run. Take some pictures, let us see what you have, inside and out, and underneath. Then, clean the car up, see if the engine will run, and if it does, freshen up what is there and drive it a little for a period of time. That will let you enjoy the car, and when your finances improve you can start to do the frame off items you have detailed.

I know my suggestions are kind of "wet blanket" but I tend to be realistic. I personally have ruined some very good cars over the years because my enthusiasm was bigger than my bank account or talent. I would really hate to see this great survivor ruined. You have to be realistic and ask yourself if you are capable of laying $ 20-30,000 on the table and devote it to this car, because that is probably the minimum you are looking at to do the things you have mentioned.

Doesn't mean you can't still get this car running, and people would love to see one of these that is in the condition you outlined, still around. You have a gem there, but if you aren't a diamond cutter, you risk ruining it. JMO.

Don


OH, and I forgot............WELCOME TO THE FORUM.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! I know I have some big plans for my car and that it will take a substantial amount of money. Like I said I want to take my time to make sure that everything is done properly. The first things that I want to do are change the mechanical brakes to hydrolic and change the the electrical system from 6volt to 12volt. Those are two goals that are in my price range that I want to accomplish as soon as possible. Does anyone know how I can change the electrical and brake systems??? Is it expensive??? Ass far as everything else that I want to do to the car it will all come about in due time, I'm in no rush. I guess to be more clear My main focus right now is to get the car in driving condition. That car looks great as it is, I just want it to be safe when I drive it. Also...I posted some pictures on the members onlty gallery of my car, but I don't know how to add them to my profile. Any pointers on how to post those pictuers to my profile??? I want to update my photos for all of you to see the progress on the car and to get any feedbback you guys might have.

Now you're talkin'. :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE: What you have to realize is how valuable this particular car is, not only monetarily, but history-wise. You have a really important car here. It deserves the very best. The story of it's being found by your Dad and then stored for so long is terrific.

Later Ford (circa '40-48) brakes will retrofit with a kit from Speedway. Parts are very available for '35's and most are bolt ins. I just saw a vendor at Daytona selling alternators disquised as old time generators. Change out the bulbs and use resistors on the rest to drop the voltage to 6 volts where needed, and you will be home free.

I hope someone helps you get the pictures posted. I can't wait to see this car.

Don

One thing to keep in mind is that the "rat rod", or traditional rod, or nostalgia rod craze (whichever term you like) that's going on right now has run up the price of the older hydraulic drum brake set-ups for these. And the competition is fairly heavy. Still, if you're a good hustler you might find something out there low buck...........just gonna have to work hard at it. Some look at the prices of drum and say, just go disc in front, it's near the same money. Your call.

The '39 to '48 brakes Don mentioned work better than your mechanicals, but are tough for most people to adjust where they work real well. It's an experience thing. Also they are not self energizing so require heavy pedal pressure for rapid (relatively) stops. Sets sell on ebay and places like Fordbarn and Craigslist for several hundred dollars, and then will often need some rebuilding. If you buy the drums blind they may be worn beyond safe use, and new replacements run about $150-200 each.

There is a better alternative that will give you self energizing drum brakes, but it costs. The brake of choice (drums f&r) is what's called the Lincoln brakes. If you do a Google search for "Reproduction Lincoln Brakes" you'll see several vendors. Here's just one example; http://www.est1946.com/index.asp?Pag...ROD&ProdID=822 If you use the drop down at mid page you'll see the rear set too. With shipping you're close to a grand, but it's new hardware.

You can build something like these if you can locate some good early '50's (up to '56) F2/F250 Ford truck backing plates. I can give you the part numbers for the shoes and cylinders if you choose to go this way and find some. Again, a lot of guys know about this and the demand is competitive. Bare backing plates can easily go over $100 a pair, and will likely need some repair. Add the cost of shoes and cylinders and $300 is easy to hit, per axle. Some guys are selling this type of set-up on ebay and Ford barn, and depending on the bidding/asking they go for $3-400. If you go this route and use stock early Ford drums you need 1 3/4" wide shoes, not the 2" ones the Buick drum guys use on the same backing plates.

Another alternative is the '53-56 Ford F100 front brakes (you still have to use any of the above for the rears). You'll need the backing plates, loaded, plus the hubs and drums. These are a 11" diameter drum rather than the aboves which are all 12". These have the advantage of maintaining the 5 1/2" bolt circle for your exising wheels.

Get a pedal assembly from a '39 which will bolt right in to help mount the master cylinder, and the clutch linkage lines right up. Or you can get a '40 pedal assy which will take a little mod for the clutch linkage. To this you can bolt a stock, single chamber m/c, repops are readily available, or better yet, a '67-8 Mustang dual chamber m/c for drum brakes (need an adapter for mounting bolt differences, readily available from most hot rod vendors). The plumbing is standard tubing and hoses.

As for the electrical, Don's info will work as long as your wiring is good, and not deteriorated. 6v wire is larger gauge than 12. Here's a quick article; http://www.patricksantiquecars.com/articles.htm

The Runtz resistor is good at each gauge where appropriate, those can be bought from Patrick's, or Speedway; http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/asp...qx/Product.htm

If you are in need of a good fabricator I would suggest you get in contact with "Chilcote Fabrication" in Morgan Hill (south bay area close to Gilroy), Tom the owner is an avid hot rodder and a amazing welder. No job is to small for this guy, you may need to get in line however his shop is in demand. He has helped me with both a new firewall and the relocation of my master cylinder assembly from under the dash to under the floor.

jc:toocool:

For some reason, every time I go to try to upload the pix of my car it disconnects my wireless internet :-( but here are links to my photobucket account where you can check out my car and tell me what you think! Oh I think I'm going to go with the new parts for the brake set up because I got about $2000 to spend on the brake system and 12v conversion. I really appreciate all the advice and feedback!!! Thanks to all!
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Very nice car!!!! I see you even have the black license plate for it. Well worth the planning, money, and effort you are putting into it....

Well, she's got plenty o' patina!!;)

It's a Standard rather than a Deluxe; single wiper, plain grille the most visible ques. I like that it's got trunk rather than rumble.

She's seen some modification over the years. Probably a cheapo repaint at some time. The interior was redone at one time, and that metal sheet replacing the fabric top insert was probably pretty obvious to you.
The sealed beam headlights are a mod, and the engine is not an original. It's an 8BA, '49-'53. None of that's a real negative, in fact the lights are an improvement and will make your 12v conversion even easier. The later flathead (ignoring unknown condition) is better than the original, a bit more power too.

If it were mine I'd give it a real thorough cleaning top, bottom, in and out. Get the drivetrain in good working order, and do the hydraulic brakes as we've been discussing. A nice mellow dual exhaust. Then I'd drop it so it sat like my '36 did. If the wire wheels are in good condition I'd blast them and have them powder coated in a nice creme color, pop on some stock caps, and put on some black wall bigs and littles. Put in a new headliner from Lebaron Bonney and neaten up the door, kick panels and seat cover, lay down some carpet and then drive the thing with a big grin. Then over time spruce up the engine compartment with some detail painting and a few chrome bits like acorn covers and air filter. Same clean and paint on the underside. Try to polish up the chrome on the bumpers knowing that the rust and scratches would still show.

I'd cover up the spare rack mounting holes with the rear license plate, using one of those old timey lights to set it off. When it comes time to patch that hole in the trunk floor, have a good metal man make a patch that looks like the stock floor that's replaced, not just a flat chunk of steel. In the short run, to keep exhaust fumes out, any temproary seal is fine, just don't screw up the original shape. When the time comes, I'm guessing at least the driver side lower quarter panel is rusted through (the same water that got the trunk floor had to go somewhere), patch panels are available, or a good metal man can shape one.

Despite some of the revisionist story telling you may hear, this is just the kind of car we could afford, and would drive as a daily car in the early '60's. We wouldn't do anything major that would disable the vehicle for any length of time because we'd be grounded til it ran again. So that's why little things were done as time and money allowed. The car was in a constant state of change, improvements made in small steps. This is a neat car to capture that escense.

Please understand that any comments or suggestions I am about to make are done as honestly and as kindly as I can. No one on this forum takes shots at anyone seeking answers, but we do have to be straightforward in our replys. It would be very unfair to you to just say what you want to hear. You came looking for answers and we will do our best to help you get to your goal.

Yes, the car has a fair amount of patina to it. It is, after all, a 72 year old car that has been sitting for the last 25 years, so time takes it's toll. However, under all that patina it seems the body is pretty solid and straight. What the car REALLY needs is a total, frame off restoration. That is what it really needs, but doesn't necessarily have to get right now to make it usable. You could clean it up somewhat, upgrade some of the mechanicals, and be driving it until the time and money come for that restoration.

$ 2000.00 is a lot of money...............until you start buying car parts.:3dSMILE: Tires and tubes alone are going to take $ 700 out of that amount. Shopping wisely, you can get all four brakes in the later "40 to '48 style for maybe another $ 600.00. But then they will need wheel cylinders, shoes, master cylinder, lines, hoses, etc. You could very well be out of money when that is done.

Bob mentioned another thing I hadn't thought of.......the wiring. It may or may not be still servicable after all these years, but it must be addressed, as wiring problems will cause you headaches you can't imagine.

The car has been sitting for 25 years, so don't be in any hurry to get it going. If you can, get the engine running on a seperate fuel tank (plastic 3 gallon boat tanks are great for this and cheap) Your stock tank at the very least will need boiled out and lined. Change all the fluids. If it runs, have your radiator redone and put new hoses on everything. Drive the car around the block to see how it shifts, etc. If it seems ok, then start spending your money on brakes, tires, etc. Pressure wash it inside and out, and underneath too.

Now you can formulate your plan to restore/ hot rod the car, because you will really know what you have. I think the later engine is also great, as Bob mentioned. Much better than the '35 flathead. Maybe the transmission is a later one too?

Bottom line, you have a really great start here, but building or restoring cars takes lots of time, skill, and money. Take one step at a time and you will be ok.

Good luck,

Don

So I've been working on my car and I've gotten alot of stuff done. I've completely gutted the interior of the car except for the dash and the gauges. So what does everyne thing??? Do all of the hidden areas look like they are in fairly good shape??? Should I atleast throw some primer on to prevent any rust from spreading??? Also, as you'll be able to tell by these pictures...does the floor board look salvageable???:confused:
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Looks pretty good in the pictures except for that spot in the trunk we talked about a couple days ago. Best thing to do is get an awl, or similar, and poke around to see if any of the "surface" rusted areas is very thin. Looks like the drain trough under the back glass is even in decent shape! If not, you'll want to fix that too since that catches the water that rolls down the back glass. Still think you might have some rust issue at the bottom of the quarters.

Wow Boss, you've been making progress. Looks really good, and this car is certainly no rust bucket. Metal looks very solid. Others may have better suggestions, like Por15 or similar, but I like old fashioned Ospho to treat rusted areas. It is cheap, and flows into nooks and crannys because of it's waterlike consistency. A quart is something like $ 7.00 in hardware stores.
Here is a little write up on Ospho:


The active ingredient is phosphoric acid.

Ospho is greenish liquid with the consistency of water. Brush or spray it on rust after just knocking off the loose scales and it pretty much stops rust dead. It also leaves no residue. There is a product called "Neutra-rust". It may have ospho as the active ingredient but its in a milk-like base that changes from beige to blue/green when applied. It then leaves a sand-able coating.


Ospho stops rust, prepares rusted surfaces for painting. Ospho is a primer-not a paint. You do not have to remove tight rust. Merely remove loose paint and rust scale, dirt, oil, grease and other accumulation with a wire brush. Apply a coat of Ospho-let it dry overnight, then apply the paint. When applied to rusted surfaces, Ospho causes iron oxide to chemically change to iron phosphate - an inert, hard substance that turns the metal black. One gallon covers 600 square feet.

part# description
1280-011 ospho 1-qt
1280-01 ospho 1-gal


Like I said, there are many other products, but for the money, I like this one a lot.

Don

First let me say "Welcome to CHR". I have been away for a little while with a broken arm and avoiding typing. That said, from your photos it looks like you have a terrific car with a lot of potential. What others have said about your priorities are true. Things cost money, but don't have to depending upon your level of sweat equity and skills. Doing your own work you could likely rewire the entire car for about $500 for a good wiring kit including the extras. You could get away for half that price with a cheaper kit, but electrical fires, especially inside the car are a bitch, so I would go with a good kit.

You mentioned chopping the roof 2 -2.5 inches. Certainly would make a nice looking coupe. If you have never done a chop I would strongly suggest having a pro shop do it. Better yet - don't do it. A couple of more inches can be very nice. Don't get me wrong, I am not against chopping. I have a 34 Plymouth sedan with a 4 inch chop. Looks terrific, not all that comfortable driving if you are over 6' tall.

My choice, and I am sure I might be in the minority, would be to restore the body to original ( love the roll down rear window) and modernize every thing else especially anything related to safety (brakes, wiring, suspension, powertrain). But then, the car is yours to do with as you choose. Regardless of what you do, always make good choices, then the regrets will be minimized. This can be a great and rewarding project for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mopar34

My choice, and I am sure I might be in the minority, would be to restore the body to original ( love the roll down rear window) and modernize every thing else especially anything related to safety (brakes, wiring, suspension, powertrain). But then, the car is yours to do with as you choose. Regardless of what you do, always make good choices, then the regrets will be minimized. This can be a great and rewarding project for you.

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My choices too and welcome to CHR.

When you prime it, you have to use a 2-part epoxy primer or a 1-part polyeurethane primer in order to seal out moisture and keep the rust from coming back. I have had good luck with Pettit Rustlock available at West Marine for $30 a quart. This is a 1-part paint for simple application. Most modern paint systems recommend you use a 2-part primer, but this Pettit's stuff seems to have a good enough solvent resistance once cured that modern paints can be applied over it without problem.

You can get all the help you can afford at Roy Brizio Street Rods in South San Francisco, close to the airport. There is also Dominator Street Rods in Byron, a little drive for you. They can get anything your little heart desires. Except money of course. Ha ha! Make sure you hit the Goodguys shows in Pleasanton, you can network there, especially the August show. Every vendor known to man is there concerning Street Rods.

Keith...

Just another update on parts. In one of your threads we talked about Speedway Motors being a source for the alternator that looks like a generator, and may have mentioned they have the "Lincoln" style brakes, drums, hubs and so on. Well, not trying to sound like a flack for Speedway here, but with heavy parts like this shipping can add up in a hurry. I saw today that Speedway is offering free shipping on orders over $400 from now through Jan 13, 07, and since they're pretty competitive on the parts pricing this makes them a good deal if that's the way you want to go.

Man, I had forgotten how much clean-up original iron requires . . .