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Ok so i found out that I got di*ked over and the engine in my Plymouth isnt matching to the car, so Im switching out the engine for a Hemi. Are the motor mounts different? or did all mopar share the same mounts?
Anyone have an idea of what would be a good hemi to place in it? I was possibly thinking of a 291 or 331. I wasnt thinking of going much larger.
Any advice would be much appreiciated!!:D
The steering box is in the way of a Hemi in that Pilgrim. I was going to put a 241 Dodge in a '52 years ago, but couldn't get it to fit. Nowadays I'd have swapped in a rack and pinion, or a clip.
what part of the engine gets in the way??
As far as engines, the DeSoto Hemis were physically smaller than the Chrysler Hemi's and the Dodges were smaller still.....but they are all wide and heavy. Chances are your choice is actually going to be based on what you able to find. You might want to skim these posts I made a while back to get an idea on the engines:
http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15088
http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15089
http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15090
http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15091
Before you read on, I am not trying to talk you out of this project, I personally think it would be a neat one. I do want to give you an idea of what your getting into however.
When doing a major swap such as your contemplating (especially on an earlier cars such as the 53) it is a bit more complicated to end up with a safe and fun car to drive than simply dropping in a bigger engine.
Yes back in the 50 and 60's that was about how it was done, but rodding has come a long way since then, as well as our expectations for safety and performance. It's pretty easy to look at a car and say gee, I think I drop a BelchFire V8 in and be the terror of the town, but the planning process NEEDS to be a lot more comprehensive.
In the case of this particular swap, your planning on adding a LOT of additional weight on what are 53 year old suspension components and likely stopping with brakes that were marginal (by today's standards). Often when you get to that point it often starts looking like a front suspension swap is also going to be a best alternative.
Then of course there will be the downstream changes that will be necessary to actually make the car move, upgraded cooling system and things like transmission and rear-end choices. Generally speaking these are not simple bolt in changes often resulting in a car that can never be economically returned to stock.
Then there is the time and cost factors:
Of course there is the cost front end upgrades. it is possible to convert these front ends to disc brakes and described in one of Tex Smiths books, but it is very labor intensive, and you will still have the handling of a 53 Plymouth, likely worse due to the added weight. A front end conversion can easily run anywhere between 1-5 K.
You've also picked a very expensive engine to build. After initial purchase of a buildable engine, you're still looking at around $5000 on a non-performance rebuilt (I just finished a 331 and can attest to this). Then add things like trans adaptors etc it starts adding up to a pretty pricey project even if the paint and body work and upholstery is currently good.
Time to do a project like this will likely be measured in years instead of months unless you have the ability or deep enough pockets to work or pay for work to be done on a continuous basis (20-40 hour weeks). If you have equipment and place to work on it and do it a few hours a week, chances are your looking at a minimum of 2 years on a project like this one could turn into.
This is doable (anything is with enough money and time), and if you have the dedication to see it thru it can be a very neat project.
Mike I really want to thank you for giving me that information. It really put into perspective what I would be getting into and what i wouldnt be able to finacially afford.
I saw a 52 cranbrook today with a 318 Vailant engine in it. Any problems with using an engine like that?
As i am just getting into this hobby, I look to the veterans in the hobby and on this board to possibly direct me to a mopar engine that would give me a bit more power then the flat six I have. I am placing an Offenhauser dual intake on the engine with two carter carbs as of right now with a dual exhaust set up on the flatsix. Am I looking at a hop up of power with this set up??
Any help you could help me with would be very much appriciated.
Throw a high-compression head in with the dual carbs and exhaust and you'll have a very noticeable power increase, one that feels much more than the dyno will show. The flat six has little surplus of power in stock form, any increase is dramatic and welcome. And then there's the sound of duals on a six!
I just gave a stock dual manifold to a buddy for his daughter's 53 Plym, but some lowlife swiped her carburetor right off the engine so he's short one. When he gets it going I'll post how it runs.
I guess it depends on how much effort and money you want to put into the car, which boils down to how much you are in love with it (or what it can be).
If this is a first project just to get your feet wet in hot rodding.... basically a "starter project" to become more involved in the hobby,then I would keep it simple. The mods to the 6 you're contemplating are good choices, it keeps it running with a minimum amount of down time and lets you enjoy events such as cruses, weekend drives, car shows etc. These cars currently (and likely in the future) are not a high demand car so it's not going to bring a lot (relatively speaking) when you do decide to sell it and if it is a starter car you will want to move along at some point. The more you put into the lesser desired cars the more likely you are to loose money when you and it part company.
On the other hand if you are really in love with this body style (or when you get "THE CAR" that you are in love with) then it's time to start planning on what it is you want to car for and to do. Things like do you want:
a show car
A cruiser
A racer
A restored car
somtething to take on long runs (Route 66/power cruise etc)
Anytime you build a car there are comprimises depending on what your priorities are.
In the case of the 53 (if this is the car you want to put a lot of money and effort into), then once you've set the parameters it will dictate what direction the project goes.
I wouldn't necessarly be TOO concerned about suspension and brake upgrades with a hopped up 6 (other than making sure that everything is with the stock specs) and drive it within the stock limitations of the car. On the other hand upgrading to a more powerful V8 would sure get me thinking about the possibility of a different front suspension and definatly upgraded brakes. Of course with the different engine you would still be looking at the same drivetrain upgrades that are required with the Hemi swap (tranny, cooling and rear end), basically just a smaller sized engie you'd have to deal with putting in. Along that line, I would spend a great deal of time looking at the 52 you saw and ask a LOT of questions to to owner to get a feel for just involved the project will be.
several years ago i had a 49 dodge--again theses cars are not show shoppers--i have instal a chrysler 6 cyl which was a 264 ci add 3 carb and duals it was a breast but it was sure a fun car to dive and a good head turner
I have 392 Hemi in my 48 DeSoto, runs and drives great. I am comfortable driving anywhere. Last Sunday did about 175 miles trip in mountains of Virginia. If you are thinking about a small block, I had the 360/390 crate engine in my 81 Mirada. Great dependable, strong engine with a great loopy sound.
Jack
There's more common sense here than I could ever come up with. Great post Mike!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike P
"There's more common sense here than I could ever come up with".
Thanks Richard, but I've read too many of your posts to people to buy that. You along with many of the rest of the regular contributors on this board (seems like we were calling ourselves Geezers at on point) have pointed more people than I can count in the right direction.
. I could easily start naming people like you, Bob, Don, Dave, HRP, Charlie and on and on but know I would either fill the page and/or leave people out so I won't go any further. It's the experience level and civility on this site tht makes it the favorite one I come to To me the techinical posts here are all first rate, but it's seeing the different prespectives of people that keeps things interesting.