newbie looking for avenues of advise~~

Hello! i just discovered Club Hotrod while digging around for discussions on Hotrod Values. Im aware that its an entirely subjective topic.
Can one of you Guru's tell me how an intelligent person would approach building a custom classic?

More specifically, I see alot of cars go under the gavel at auction. Some fetch their true value, some a little less, some more, and some ALOT more. whats cool about keeping an eye on the auctions for a gauge on custom car values is no craigslist nazi ever asks "is it still available?" whats not cool about it is I cant for the life of me figure out why the heavy hitters pay 10's of thousands for one car, and only a few thousand for another.
Another example would be at the big car shows, where top prize carries a hefty check with the trophy. Maybe six to ten incredible builds competing for 10K$--- how can you tell who SHOULD win?
I ask, because I am almost done restoring my 51 Pontiac sedan... only to find out that the last 6k, i'll never see again. no, its not a labor of love. Its a money pit, with a raging fire at the bottom.
I want to build another classic, more of a hotrod custom for the sole purpose of selling at auction. I'd like to throw 15-20k at a hardtop in my driveway... and expect to fetch 30k at auction...
How do i best spend my money to best insure a good price at auction?

For instance, if there are 10 categories for potential customized features. how would they be listed in order of importance?

Is drivetrain and HP/Handling more important than Paint and Upholstery?

Are Ragtop Sliding Sunroofs more important than a gigantic stereo system?

Is Bling&Chrome more important than interactive gadgetry?


I've been looking for a clue for a while now- i guess im not sure where to look to learn what any custom rodder should learn before dumping piles of cash into a hole that might not cough it back up someday.

any, and i mean any advice is welcome. thank you!

I had typed out a lengthy reply - but it seems to have been lost in cyber space...:mad:

So I'll shorten my thoughts and say first welcome! Nice to see you here!:D

An interesting topic you've started. A "Custom Classic" sounds a bit like an oxymoron to me! When you customize a classic, you have to find a like minded customer who "gets" the same vision as the customizer..

This is why a "barn fresh" original is more desireable than a customized... it hasn't been "tainted" by someone elses thoughts / vision of what it should be.. Also the fewer that were built or known left to exist will drive up a price for obvious reasons.

Welcome to CHR. Picking the right "start" is indeed critical, and as you're finding going with something like a '51 Pontiac, and then having it be a sedan is probably not a great choice if your goal is profit. About the only way you might turn that around would be with a '51 convertible, or maybe a sedan delivery which were made in small numbers, but even then you'd need to do something really special to make it stand out and become a silk purse. The '51 Pontiac, Olds, and Chevy were too close in "look", sedans were a dime a dozen, and making one stand out takes the eye of an artist and the talent to make it appear flawless.

Before diving into a lot of details, tell us a little about yourself. Do you have a fully equipped shop, and how much work do you do yourself as opposed to writing checks to specialty shops?

In essence, you need to start with a car which is in current demand. Then you need to make changes which are congruent with current trends. Cost invested is paramount to a positive return. The right buyer is key top dollar. Keep watching those auctions. They are an excellent indicator of the economy. You'll also notice the auction price only goes sky high when multiple bidders are present. Your best selling option is always to have several buyers lined up before you even start. Selling privately avoids auction fees. No good to take it to auction for an extra 20% if auction fees, transport costs, lodging, etc cost you 18%.

Research. Keep costs down. Sell privately.

I agree with the previous post. The most important thing is the desirability and demand for the vehicle you start with. Living in Studebaker circles for many years I am very aware of this. The car you pick to start with will impact the number of potential buyers/bidders. Also consider that body work, paint and custom work does not care what car it is as far as cost. It costs just as much to put a show class paint job on a less popular car as it does on a popular one. One other caution I would offer is that rare does not always equate to valuable.

My thoughts are, ?if? one is getting into this hobby with profit in mind rather than personal likes and dislikes then I question that this is the "avenue" for them. For instance, my '62 Fairlane is not one of the more desired or collectable Rods but the style and era take me to a special place in my life, therefore, it's the ?perfect? choice "for me" IMHO. Of course my motto is "buy high and sell cheap":CRY:

That said, Good Luck with your venture whatever you decide.
Em

Big shows are not won---they are lost by losing a point here and there because all the screw heads weren't lined up , stitches weren't same number per inch ,hose clamps not lined up, valve stems and tire names not lined up-------


The big builders don't build show cars to sell-they build trailer queen show cars for check writers--------


As for the comments about you'll never get out of it what you put into it $$ wise--------just remember that in the time period to complete a rod that you would of had 3 or 4 new cars, lost the initial depreciation, etc and then add in all that money you would of spent on golf clubs, country clubs, golf fees, caddy fees , tips, etc---------and golf shoes plus that set of gloves that is only for one hand---------( the fact O golfs is reason enough to buy a new welder )

I'm generally skeptical of inaugural posts like this one, there is so much naivete in it that it's hard to take seriously. You're either being somewhat devilish in poking the bear, or you don't know what you don't know............likely somewhere in between.

That being said, the essence of your post in defining your objective is completely backward. It's infinitely more likely you'd spend $30k to have a product that would, hopefully, fetch $15k. People with years and years of experience, coupled with their "intelligence", find it difficult to sum up an all inclusive answer to you query. Each of the above responses attempts to give you some insight, and are generally accurate, but each represent just a singular slice of a MUCH larger pie. Generally speaking, anyone who makes any amount of money on a car sale in this segment of the hobby does it by applying some special talent they possess. And I dare say it is EXTREMELY rare to double their money.........and those are the best informed, most talented performers.

We have one member here who demonstrates the art of flipping hot rods. His special talent, from my observations, is that he is a highly accomplished painter with plenty of time on his hands, relatively speaking, as he's retired from a life of successful business ownership. And this observation I'm sharing is just a portion of what he does. He will often buy a nearly complete car for less than the cost of the parts to build it. He'll apply his painting talents making the car much more desirable, and then market it in the higher potential sales venues (rarely if ever at auction btw). I don't know what he makes on each deal, that's his business, but I'd bet you dollars to donuts it's not doubling his money in.

I have another buddy who has a talent for recognizing what's popular, and is one hell of a sales guy. He's willing to drive a couple thousand miles if necessary to take a car he's selling to a high profile event (just for example, Goodguys Del Mar) to find a "fat cat" buyer. In other words, he works for his money. I've seen him routinely turn a $5k profit (not considering travel expenses), on a $30-50k sale, sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less. And he's a guru at that sort of thing. One of his favorite phrases is "you make your money on the buy, not the sell...". In other words, you don't buy parts and labor at retail and expect to make money. Some other "intelligent" rodder has to eat the depreciation.

So there you go, another thin slice of pie................but there's oh so much more to know. Not trying to discourage participation in the hobby, and asking questions is a good way to learn, but don't think you'll outsmart the rest of the players in the game when you're just getting in it. Life rarely works that way.

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Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter

.......So there you go, another thin slice of pie..........but there's oh so much more to know. Not trying to discourage participation in the hobby, and asking questions is a good way to learn, but don't think you'll outsmart the rest of the players in the game when you're just getting in it. Life rarely works that way.

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Uncle Bob jumped in with exactly my thoughts, but I was giving you the opportunity to explain to the group what your approach is, and what you bring to the table in the way of tools, experience and special talents before commenting on specifics.

My father-in-law was a used car wholesaler, mainly buying from individuals "right" in the days before computers and cell phones when the Sunday paper had a dozen pages of used car ads, then selling to his buddies at dealerships during the week, making a couple of hundred on each one, and rarely more. He had a great love for Model A's, and his sale of one that he had restored set the record 30 years ago for highest price paid nationally, and it held for several years. When we chatted about it he shared that he'd "...just broke even" on that sale, spending a bunch to make it perfect, and then barely getting his money back on a record setting sale. It's hard to do better.

Jerry points out the intangible value of the hobby, and there's something to be said for that. I truly love building, whether it's a car project, a piece of furniture, a toy for grandkids or putting salvage windows in the tree house. It's what keeps me going, but none of it is done with an eye on potential profit. It's a present to myself in what are said to be the "golden years" of retirement.

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Originally Posted by rspears

It's a present to myself

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And truer words can not be found!

The others, and particularly Mr. Parmenter, said it far nicer than I would have. And by the way, you're looking for advice, not advise.

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Welcome to CHR. As you’ve already discovered, we’re a diverse lot here with the common thread being we all enjoy hot rods (or some component of hot rodding) by our own definition of what hot rodding is. From rats to $100K customs, ’32 duces to ’70 Boss 302, New Zealand to Denmark, were all here and can be quite outspoken at times about what we like and more importantly, we’re willing to share what we know based on a lot of years of building experience.

If I had several million dollars that didn’t have a home I think I’d build a 10,000 square foot shop and equip it with all the tools needed to build or manufacturer most anything for what I consider vintage Chevy’s – mostly ‘60’s muscle cars. My problem would be that I’d have a tendency to buy what I find attractive and that may not be what the market is looking for. Not everyone is enamored with a 1965 SS Impala with a big block – but I am. I know there are those who buy-and-sell for a business and some who make a good living in the hot-rod business by specializing in custom paint, upholstery, engine builds, chassis, etc. I do it because I love the smell of oil and the feel of tools in my hands. I enjoy working on the car for hours on end to accomplish what I think are really cool modifications. I have no need for validation from others (but it’s nice to receive a complement) as I like what I like. I do get teary eyed when I remember the time spent in the garage with my kids as it was always special. I love to cruise with windows down and hear Booker T. & the MG played loud. I love to hear an engine light off after I’ve rebuilt it and even more so the look of joy in a young person’s eyes when they feel the hot rodding experience come alive in their heart.

I guess I do hot rods because it brings me joy and satisfaction (well – there are those times when thing don’t go so good – but they are in the minority!) It’s never been about the money with me as I consider it pure joy to work on my hot rods.

Hope you find what you’re looking for!
Glenn

you folks are awesome- thank you!

Believe it or not, in the midst of all these replies, I have found an answer to my question.

... and yes, i agree: its advice, not advise. Thanks for correcting my typo.

I was looking to spend my money more wisely on this next one. I figured there are some details that are more important than others & building a car specifically to sell at auction is a business gamble like any other: people want customized old cars, just like people want hammers, because pounding a nail with a rock sucks. Some hammers sell better than others. Why? That's a good example of the nature of my query.
I get that there are no surefire recipes in this billion dollar business. but there are trends, likelihoods, and really bad ideas.
Someone replied earlier mentioning that a buyer has to "share your vision".

Brilliant!

Within this idea, I can see that the salesman has as much to do with the final cash paid for a car, as does the "theme" of the customized car itself. Thats why I was targeting auctions. For 18%, they've already done all the marketing. Dialing in the Theme of the cars custom features with an idea to attract the largest possible pool of buyers for the specific year/make/model of the car in question, well, thanks to you folks, i have a better idea about how to approach it. There are plentY of avenues for discovering the final value of a restored, stock old car. Its much more tricky with a customized old car.
To the one that encouraged me to continue keeping an eye on the auction results: thank you, i will continue: Because at auctions, people are seperating themselves from their money by the millions for vehicles of all kinds, and usually in the same amount of time that it takes me to pour a cup off coffee. Its a huge, vibrant market place, and if one plays their cards well, they can make a little coin in the middle of it all.
Generally, I think most HOT RODS are the result of individual "gifts to themselves". and thats not at all what i was inquiring about.
I had an idea for a theme on this old hard top in my driveway, and i wanted to learn wether if it would add value to the car, or diminish the value, using stock restored value as a standard. Hard call, I know... But i think i have a better grip on it now.
Again, thank you for all the input!

go watch Gas MOnkey tv show------------

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

go watch Gas MOnkey tv show------------

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you got time for TV?~~~ I sure dont.