new guy with questions

[Chris Dolt]

Hello! Im an old muscle car guy who wants to build a 34 ford coupe have been checking different options and was wondering what the reputation of the antiques and collectible aka a&c kits were. Any advice is welcome. By the way I have restored, and rebuilt several cars and I also built a Factory Five Cobra roadster but Ive always wanted an old coupe and I like the 34. Thanks in advance.

[34_40]

Hi Chris. Welcome aboard! Back in 2000 I looked into A&C as I wanted a body for my 34 frame. I ended up latching onto an old Gibbon Body so I never got any closer to A&C, but they have been around for awhile if that tells you anything??

A lot of guys like Bebops and N&N, maybe something to look into.

[Bob Parmenter]

I would add to Mike's list with Outlaw Performance, at one time they were one of the top 2 or 3 for quality. And that phrasing, "at one time" is the issue at hand. Some of these companies have been around long enough that the original owners who built a good reputation/product are no longer involved (or as involved). Gibbon is a good example; father built company with integrity/quality, son took it over and killed it. Downs went through a different version of the story, father built business, died, son made a reasonably good go of it but has shut it down because he figured out how to do better with something else. Then there's market interest. Steve Frisbee at Steve's Auto Restoration made a very nice steel reproduction 3 window coupe body, but found out there weren't enough buyers in line for it at the price point he needed to cover his nut..........stopped production a couple months ago. I've been away from glass bodies for several years now so don't pay as much attention as I once did. Nothing against glass bodies as I've done the Cobra replica thing and have had 3 or 4 glass bodied rods over the years, but I'm in the camp that believes glass bodied cars will be the first to fall off the value cliff when this hobby contracts. There is lots of disagreement on that point, so I only mention it to set the context for my remarks to follow.

I believe we're beginning to see the early stages of our hobby shrinking. It's been predictable if you watched the attendees at rod runs over the past 20 years...........the hair that remains got greyer and greyer. Not as many younger guys joining the hobby. That means as the chronologically gifted depart the scene there are/will be fewer folks to buy the "stuff" they leave behind. Right now unfinished project cars (and a lot of vintage tin that's been hoarded away for decades) are hitting the market in greater quantity than I've noticed in the past. They aren't moving unless they're something in the more desirable category, or priced VERY cheaply for the quality of goods. The running cars are acting similarly. Good '32 Fords still move well, and at relatively high prices, but they represent the pinnacle of high desirability. The less desirable stuff languishes until the seller drops his price enough to find a buyer, or rolls it back in the garage hoping "things will pick up later....". That flies in the face of demographics, but hope springs eternal. Enough with the human nature stuff, it could go on for paragraphs.

If I were in your shoes (with the beliefs above) I'd be looking for something in the resale market.......there's lots of it out there. A few whys (though not all inclusive). If you're young enough that future value might be in your mind look for an original Ford body. If my view is anywhere close to accurate glass cars will take a big dive in the future (it won't be a light switch moment thing, but it will be a decline that in hindsight will be fairly steep curve), and certainly more quickly than steel as the remaining buyers in the market will have their choice of "quality" and desirability. But, if you're less interested in future value well built glass cars are out there. Almost anyone who's ever built a quality car from the ground up will tell you that it costs more to build one than buy one done. Of course the trade offs are you make compromises with a "used" car (but in reality most people make trade offs in a car they build too, just different ones). Depending on your skills and resources, changing things on an already built car to personalize it can be relatively cost effective and "easy". The two most expensive things in most cases, if you are careful about what you buy and are good at evaluating the mechanical things, are paint and upholstery. As an example, there are a lot of cars on the market today with the molded, woven fabric, pastel colored, billety interiors left over from the late '80s into the '90s. Because they are passe' there's a very small buyer market for them, but the owners want strong prices because............"hey, it's a '34 Ford, I saw one sell last week for $45k!". Well, except that one last week had a very traditional interior and paint scheme that is much more in demand in today's market. If the seller of the '80s car really needs to sell he's either got to find an uninformed fish (not as easy as it once was), or drop his price to allow the new owner to not lose his shorts "fixing" the car. If you're a patient and diligent shopper you can find such things, and in less time than it will take to build one (one kind of labor traded for another). True, a lot of sins can be hidden in a finished car, but so can they in "new" stuff.

Anyway, it's a big world out there with lots of choices, just depends on your motivations. Some are very good at their day job and can afford to be less thrifty in their hobby and a lot of what I mentioned above doesn't much matter, others.........not so much. Just some stuff to think about.

[rspears]

Chris,
Can't disagree with anything Uncle Bob says, especially the advice that you can buy cheaper than you can build in today's market. The rest of that story is that you get to enjoy the car from day one of your investment (depending on what you're wanting to change to 'make it yours') as opposed to the build time. Now if you're more interested in the build just for the satisfaction of building, then it's another story, but having been through it I'd still think about buying a finished car and then doing any needed work yourself. If you're set on building I don't believe you will find a better value than the premium roller package you get from N&N in Arkansas. There may be better bodies out there, but when you look at quality vs price to determine value for the dollar I found them at the top of the heap. Just my $0.02 - the orange '34 coupe with the light multi-colored flames at Des Moines was Duane Noblett's (N&N Owner) personal car about five years back, and he sold it to a guy from Oklahoma who added the flame work and turned into an awesome bad-boy hot rod. http://www.clubhotrod.com/hot-rod-pi...es-2013-a.html

[Chris Dolt]

Thanks for the replys fellas all good advice. I wouldnt be adverse to buying a project or even a finished car but I have a vision of what I want so i'm doing a lot of looking and asking.