My hot rod plans

[gsp392]

I'm planning to basicly restore my Model A near to how my dad had it in the early 60's. The car has a '31 5 window steel body, everything else is '57 Chrysler. I want to build it to vintage specs using only period parts where they're seen. Anything newer will be hidden if possible.

It has or will have:

body channeled/frame shortened
12" drum brakes front & rear
392 Hemi built as hot as I can afford it
727 transmission (shift kit etc..)
vintage magneseum 14x6 front wheels, vintage 15x10 rear wheels, (both torque thrust style)
torison bar front suspension, rear '51 Chevy truck leaf springs
fuel cell
custom grill and radiator
shortened '57 Chrysler dash
'58 T-Bird front buckets
Dana rearend with a gear, yet to be determined
rebuilt 57-58 Chrysler gauges and radio, XM Radio hidden
rebuilt 57 Chrysler power windows, hidden remote locks and ignition

Anyway that's what I've got planned. Please feel free to throw in comments, ideas or anything that comes to mind.

[IC2]

The only thing I would at first glance disagree with is using drum front brakes. You should consider discs. With that much potential 'go-power'(and nose weight) you need stop power. If you want them to look like drums, So-Cal and others have assemblies that will hide discs. Heck, I have discs on all four corners on a roadster with a barely warmed over SB Ford

Oh and before you commit to expensive upholstery on bucket seats - make sure that you along with them fit - this from personal experience

[HemiTCoupe]

Actually drum brakes have more braking power than disc's. Disc rear is not going to stop you better. You'll never heat the rear drums up enough to justified the extra cost of rear disc's. unless you do road course type driving, then disc's are better. Their mostly for looks.
Yes I have disc's all the way around, but my IRS came with them.

Pat

[gsp392]

My dad told me stories of him testing the brakes and the distance it took to stop from certain speeds. I'll ask him again and repeat it here.
Each drum has 4 shoes and they were good enough to stop a 5,000 pound Mopar running a 392 from highway speeds. I know discs look nicer, but I'm going primarily for function and vintage, plus I'll be using what's already on the car.

[Mike52]

Each drum has 4 shoes and they were good enough to stop a 5,000 pound Mopar running a 392 from highway speeds.

I've been a Mopar fan since I was a teenager, worked in the parts dept of a Dodge dealer at 19, owned many, many Mopars including Hemis but I don't recall seeing a Mopar drum brake that uses 4 brake shoes per wheel, I also suffer from CRS these days. Would love to see a pic of that brake set-up to refresh my failing memory.

Mike

[gsp392]

I've been a Mopar fan since I was a teenager, worked in the parts dept of a Dodge dealer at 19, owned many, many Mopars including Hemis but I don't recall seeing a Mopar drum brake that uses 4 brake shoes per wheel, I also suffer from CRS these days. Would love to see a pic of that brake set-up to refresh my failing memory.

Mike

It's possible that I misunderstood what he said. I've been known to do that from time to time.

[LIFESTYLZ]

Actually drum brakes have more braking power than disc's.

Easy to type that here, but some factual data would be nice.
I wonder why 100% of manufacturers use front discs.
Enlighten we the uneducated.

[Itoldyouso]

I've never run discs on any car I've had, and they all stop just fine. Discs are not perfect, my Son Don has Wilwoods on the front of his T and he has had fits trying to get them right. The first set threw brake dust all over the car and the rotors scored badly, so Speedway stepped up and sent him a different set. No more dust, but they squeal like mad. We've adjusted, shimmed, sanded the pads, etc, still no good. Lots of conversations with Wilwood and they don't even have an answer.

As for drums not stopping, we are talking about 2,000 pound cars here. One time I was driving my 27 and the light changed to red, so I hit the brakes. My Wife was following me in her new car with discs, abs, and all that stuff, and she almost redesigned my rear end. My 27 stopped way better than hers.

Don

[LIFESTYLZ]

My 27 stopped way better than hers.

Don

I would put that down purely to reaction times.
I had a drum braked car run into the back of my disc braked car.
So does that dispel which is better? I don't think so.

[Itoldyouso]

I would put that down purely to reaction times.
I had a drum braked car run into the back of my disc braked car.
So does that dispel which is better? I don't think so.

No, that would just mean the guy who hit you was a lousy driver.

Don

[IC2]

Now - let me count the different cars that I've had with 4 wheel drums and needed more brakes that 'ran out' of stopping power that did or could have caused a problem:

1964 Pontiac Grand Prix - two hard stops, then nothing (and I mean NOTHING) and would blow lights at the local traffic lights including once 6" away from another car. Sold it (traded it ) and some guy ended up killing himself because he couldn't stop

1963 Ford Galaxie (406/405++ Tri Power) - this car found the end of the traps at two of the local drag strips.

1965 Ford Galaxie (390/330 Police) - as bad as the '63.

Now if I recall, the older Chrysler brakes - and the OP didn't note what he was using - were the dual opposing wheel cylinder Lockheed brakes which were for no better term, atrocious. Even after doing a lining to drum radius and adjusting the pivot pin and the usual movable adjuster for minimum clearance you would only have a partial lining hitting the drum during a stop. While the brakes themselves were fairly large, they needed to be to stop those heavy cars. If these are the standard (and current) Bendix design, probably could be made to work. If they are pre '49 Ford, these too are Lockheed, tho I do believe the trucks went to Bendix earlier - but CRS......

As far as drums being as good or better then disc brakes - not a true statement. Discs cool better as the heat is dissipated easier , apply fully across the braking surface, are self cleaning and apply more evenly on both sides of the rotor. I cannot envision my 8000+ pound F350 pulling my 11,000 pound 5th wheel RV down a steep road without at least front discs and since it has 4 wheel discs, better

Don and others using modern drums on light cars - not much problem there as newer drum brake systems or even newer compounds will for sure work great. As far as problems with discs, I have Wilwoods on my '31 - and all four corners and except for the fact they did a poor job of stopping my car when new, they only needed to be fully bedded and that took several more "break in" cycles - now they are great and I don't see any of the dirt or squeal problems noted as yet, but more time and miles will tell.

[Itoldyouso]

We can beat this disc brake vs drum brake horse all day, and you are still going to have advocates on both sides of that discussion. Besides, gsp392 has already stated he wants drums for the old timey look (and IMO those SoCal and other similar discs posing as drum brakes DO NOT fool anyone, they still look ok on a street rod, but not on a hot rod)

So, to get gsp392 the feedback he really wanted, I think the front torsion bar idea is a good one. At one time I would have not thought so, but Jim (JRobinson) on here has an A coupe with torsion bars, and it is the cleanest installation I have ever seen. I hope he sees this and posts some pictures of how he did it. You have to stand on your head to even see them in his car, and he says it handles great.

Don

[rspears]

....Besides, gsp392 has already stated he wants drums for the old timey look (and IMO those SoCal and other similar discs posing as drum brakes DO NOT fool anyone, they still look ok on a street rod, but not on a hot rod).

Don, you're right this drum vs disc discussion is not the point here, and in fact I believe that if you look back at gsp392's posts it's a moot point - he already has the brakes he's going to use, and they are the one's his dad installed years ago. As he says at the start,

It has or will have: (his list)

I think we're beating a dead horse on the brakes. Maybe the question for gsp392 is, "What parts do you already have, and what is up for discussion here??"

[gsp392]

I really appriciate all the replys.

Here's what I've listed that I already have:

body channeled/frame shortened
12" drum brakes front & rear
392 Hemi
vintage magneseum 14x6 front wheels, vintage 15x10 rear wheels, (both torque thrust style)
torison bar front suspension, rear '51 Chevy truck leaf springs
custom grill and radiator
shortened '57 Chrysler dash
'58 T-Bird front buckets
Dana rearend
57-58 Chrysler gauges and radio
57 Chrysler power windows

I also happened to remember, I've got a '76 Mercury with a 460 and a C6. I can pull the C6, get it rebuilt, get an adapter and save the money of buying a 727.

I basicly want to share my goals with everyone and get opinions. Just like with the brakes, I welcome all points of view even though for some things I'm set in my ways. Plus, although dad gave me the project years ago, I still have to build it to suit him too.

[roadster32]

I'm afraid that discs are better than drums, just fact !!!

Having said that i'm using drums on the front of my 26T because they look very cool, Drums don't have to be bad if setup properley.