Lokar Shifter Issues

Well,
In between this boat project I decided to take Mr Blue out for a spin the other night. I showed up at the restaurant and went inside. One of my buddies said that someone wanted to hear my engine. So I went out, fired it up and the shifter fell into reverse!!!!:CRY::CRY: (Renamed from Mr Blue to Christine) I quickly lunged for the stick and jammed it back into park, BUT not before it tapped the front bumper of a Mustang behind me!!:eek: After the smoke cleared with no damage to my vehicle and a small 2 inch line of my paint on their front bumper (Still cant find where the paint came from, NO damage to my car) I realized that I have had it with the Lokar shifter I installled when I built the car. Pops and I have adjusted and tightened that darn thing until we are blue in the face and yet it has never been right. It is tall (23 inch) and it has the large but light skull shift knob (the factory Lokar knob was heavier) but gosh it should be safer than this. Anyone else had a simular problem with their Lokar/ Considering changing to a Gennie. You thoughts out there?
Don Jr.

I would give Lokar a call and tell them what you have done before you give up and buy the Gennie. The Gennie, IMHO, has a flimsy mounting arrangement. Lokar does have some pretty good customer service - and may ask you to return it for repairs. I had one of their flex transmission sticks that dripped ATF - talked to them, they said there was a double o-ring mod and to send it back and they would do the fix - no questions, no receipt, no proof of age. NOT - they sent me a brand new one instead within a week with the fix done.

Couple of comments from me.

First, it seems that your neutral safety switch is not adjusted correctly. If it was you would only be able to crank the starter when in Park or Neutral. I had this same problem until I adjusted this switch.

Second, since you have used the adapter so that you can run the aftermarket skull shift knob; is the cable still functionable to allow you to have to push down on the shift knob in order to go from PARK to REVERSE. This is important with the Lokar shifter.

There is also a large nut at the shift lever pivot point, that when tightened up increases the friction against a plastic washer. This would then require additional force to be applied when moving the shift lever. It is to prevent the shift lever from just moving the linkage into another gear from vibration, bumps and its own weight. Tighter is better.

I have used both the Lokar and the Gennie shifters with long shift levers. The adjustments mentioned above are true for both brands. The Gennie shifter enables the use of many different shift knobs easily. Instead of having to push down on the knob to shift out of Park or into Low, the Gennie shifter must be moved to the side slightly and then up or down to the next position.

The Neutral switch adjustment is very critical to prevent startup in gear.

Good advise guys. Will try adjusting one more time to get proper safety switch engagement and if that fails will contact Lokar. Thanks for the advise! Don Jr.

After Don told me what happened I went to the shop the next night and with the engine off was able to take his shifter and pull it out of park without pushing down on the skull........it popped right into reverse. I pushed it back into park and it clicked as if locked in, and this time it held. I had to jiggle it though to get it locked into park, it didn't just click in automatically.

I think a couple of things are wrong here. First of all the adapter that allows you to use a different knob than Lokars has a very fine line of adjustment between not releasing the shifter and it coming out too easy. I remember when we first installed it two years ago that we had to play with it and to find the sweet spot where it would work properly. Secondly, we haven't really done any follow up adjusting on either of our cars since they went together two years ago, so in fairness we need to spend some time and tighten and adjust them properly.

I am having issues with the Lokar in my T also. If I am going down the road and hit certain bumps it drops from 3rd to 2nd. The first time it happened I was on the interstate and heard this engine roar.......I thought someone with louder headers than mine was passing me, but it was my own engine over revving. :eek: It has happened a few times since, so I have to get things tightened up. It also starts in gear SOMETIMES. Not always, so I guess the neutral switch is at least doing it's job part time. BTW, I don't have an overly heavy shift knob either.

One lesson I hope Don has learned is to NEVER start your car unless you are sitting behind the wheel with your foot on the brake. I can't say I haven't done the same thing, so I have learned a lesson here too. The one consolation is that Don's accident could have been so much worse. :) Megan, a young lady sometimes on this forum but usually on the HAMB, wrecked a very nice little T when she came off a hump on the interstate at about 70 mph and it downshifted (at least I remember that was the cause). Her car was totalled and luckily she survived but not without some serious injuries.

Don

I've got a 23"Lokar double bend ( Nostalgia ) shifter in my 29 and it did take some fine tuning to get it to react right. As said here the neutral saftey switch also needs to be adjusted, when I did mine I set it up so it will only start in park, not in neutral, everything from reverse on down is dead. I would also get a 16 inch emergency brake, (trans mount) from Lokar and install that, I put one in and it works great. It seems all this stuff needs to be tweaked a bit to get it to work, but whats new. I agree that Lokar makes a nice product and with a little screwing around you'll get it adjusted. The hand brake I had to grind a little off the bracket to get the release rod to move down so it would release, but like I said whats new!!!!:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8...ld/TransRt.jpg

OR - Something like this???

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8...d/DSC_0004.jpg

All Good advice. Thanks guys. :)
Don Jr

I've got the Lokar 12" single bend with the stock knob on my Willys. I've voiced my dislike for this shifter several times and spoken to the Lokar and Gennie guys at national meets a number of times. Their comments are along the line that the shifter is meant for streetcars and not real hot rods.

The problem is that for high performance use where you want to manually shift it, it is easy to over shift it. I've already done it a couple times so now when I want to "step on it" I start in 2nd and let the T350 up shift to what ever it wants to then hold my right hand against my leg and gently push the lever into 3rd when it is time. Not a very good thing. Also since I don't use a kick down, down shifting quickly is not a good thing to do. Fortunately I have a strong motor with lots of mid range and a very light car so just stepping on it is usually enough.

I also receved a modified shift plate from another reader which I have not installed yet. It has a much better way to positively select gears. I'm going to make a modified one of my own over the winter and install it. I already have a replacement shift plate from Lokar.

The bottom line is that we have made a mistake in application here and we really need to select a ratchet style cable shifter for our 'hotrods.' I know they don't look a cool but function and safety need to take priority here.

I have several friends with the long lever ones that have a real hard time when they step on it with the lever wanting to down shift. Not good. Personally I would not use one over 12" long at all. You will have to tighten the pivot up too tight to function very well.

Neither company shows much interest in fixing these other than to stress the neutral saftey switch adjustment.

I will say that mine was very easy to set up and the neutral safety switch works flawlessly.

I have my blower ready to install and I can see that it will be next to impossible to shift under full throttle. I'll probably just have to leave it in drive. A new ratchet shifter will be in order for sure.

i have replaced 3 genie shifter rods due to wear. the gate in the bottom actually saws a grove in the shifter that stops it from staying in the lock . after time there is no detent to lock into. not my favorite shifter . tall shifters are just a pia because they will do just what you describe. dont know if there is a solution to it .

I had a low end B&M cable shifter in my last car. I wasn't pretty but it had gates that held whatever gear, including park and neutral. The Lokar is pretty, but this car isn't a race car....and when it's all over, a B&M or similar cable shifter would have been easier to set up and do my interior around, but now water (and $$$) under the bridge......:D

Shine,

I recall you telling that warning before and put a wad of grease on the gate of my Gennie shifter, but I suppose driveline heat will quickly drain off the grease unless I can put some sort of bag around it. Were the shifter gates that you replaced "dry" or is lubrication useless?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Yup, I'm with Dave!!! Plan on sticking with a cable shifter that has a whole lot more positive lockouts!!! Friend of mine stopped by this afternoon, he's building a '28 roadster and WAS considering a Lokar shifter.... He went home to order his B&M..... Couple weeks ago a guy in Watertown was accelerating hard on an on ramp, got onto the interstate in drive hit a sizable bump, and the shifter dropped and fell back into 2nd!!! Didn't break anything but it could have jumped the other way just as easy and gone into reverse at a bit over 100 mph....real exciting!!!!!

In my own cars with the manuals, makes having one pop out of gear when decelerating seem kind of minor, I guess....:LOL::LOL::LOL:

Sounds like Lokar might have given up function in favor of fashion?????

the gate did not wear out. the tip of the shift lever has a notch in it. after time the notch was cut deep enough to bypass the gate. they were pretty much dry. if i were to use one i would lube it and remember not to let it slide against the gate. i think it is after you go to reverse and then drive that the shift lever is riding on the gate.

Thanks Shine,
I had a chat with the tech guy at the Gennie site and he was pretty defensive saying there is nothing wrong with the Gennie design on two accounts:
1. He has had no problem with a Gennie shifter on a '32 roadster for over 120,000 miles.
2. Gennie is not Lokar!

However, I wanted to talk him into offering a flat "cup" to hold grease under the hardened steel gate plate but he was not interested even though that would just be a small accessory addition. The gate plate is curved to match the swing of the nose of the shifter so there is a natural dip in the plate that could pool some lubricant but some sort of cup is needed to keep the grease from running out through the slide slot. I have tried to cut out a "cup" from thin aluminum sheeting but it is not easy to fit in such a way that the grease will not just run out when hot. The only thing I learned, except for their unwillingness to offer an improvement, was that the detent spring-load can be adjusted from the jam nut on the right side. It would seem if the detent is set very tight that could increase wear on the nose of the shift handle tip but if the detent is too loose there is a chance of the position to slip; a clear tradeoff requiring some care in setting the tension.

Don, I was very sorry to learn that Meagen had a serious crash that may have been caused by a problem with a Lokar shifter. She was a delight on this Forum so I wish her well. If you have an address on the HAMB writeup I would like to read what happened first hand.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

tech at genie can kiss my grits. i went through their attitude last time so i saved the last one. the nice little grove is not suppose to be there. the gate saws a grove in the soft steel. by the time i got it you could shift back and forth easily , no lock in park.

Shine, Thanks for the picture. I just spent an hour or so messing around with some aluminum sheet. I cut a strip 1 1/8" wide x 6" long and slid it under the gate plate. The front end has a 1/2" x 1/2" cutout for the front of the shaft but the sides of the front and the back edge are bent around the sleeves for the mounting bolts. That forms a cavity below the gate plate and I shoveled in about a tablespoon of Marfak which is pretty stiff and I think the trans will have to get pretty hot to melt all the Marfak and drain it out, so for the forseeable future the end of the stick should be bathed in Marfak. I can make adding more grease part of maintenance and maybe that will give added life to the stick. Thanks for the warning. The Gennie tech guy did have an attitude and I thought he might be interested in an idea to lubricate the tip of the stick but he didn't even want to hear it. Apparently the gate plate is heat treated steel but the stick is not!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Shine,

I had to order boot for the Gennie shifter and got to chat with a guy a little higher in the food chain at the Gennie site. He said the company is under new management since about five years ago and the tips of the shift lever are now hardeded as well as the gate plate, but even so I packed my shift plate with wheel bearing grease (Marfak) and wrapped the base with duct tape. Maybe I lucked out in buying one of the later units with the hardened tip?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

i heard the same story last time. it seems every time i have a problem with 1-800-streetrod they have already fixed the problem. it is a poor design from the git go. the last one i replaced was only 2 years old but the guy drives the car daily. in my shop truck i'm going to use a mr gasket detent shifter but i will cut off their stick and use a short hurst stick.

I think the neutral safety switch’s main role is to keep track of the position of the gear selector lever. It prevents the engine from starting if the gear or transmission is not on neutral or park position. If the gear is on this position, it would be easy and safe to start the vehicle. With the neutral safety switch working just fine, untoward accidents can be avoided. Yet there are some signs that will pinpoint defect on this part. One is when the lever has to be shifted from park or neutral mode in order to get the engine to start. Another is if the car starts in Neutral but not in Park mode. That’s the go-signal for a replacement. So better check it though. Well, this site is great. I'm getting a lot of good info here. I'll be bookmarking this thread again, thanks pros.

This is a pretty old thread and since it has been brought back from the dead I thought I'd add a little to it. Don's shifter seems to be working ok now because he is just being more careful to make sure it is clicked firmly into park and he never starts it when he is not in the drivers seat. The fancy aftermarket knob and long stick are not probably helping the issue due to the added weight up top. But for all practical purposes it is fine now.

The only issue I had with the Lokar in my 23 was that sometimes, while driving along, if I hit a hard bump it would drop down from 3rd to 2nd. When it happened on the interstate a couple of times at 60-70 mph it is quite disconcerting! :eek: The fix was very easy though. I took the boot off and there were two jam nuts that adjusted the tightness of the shifter movement. It was very loose. But after tightening them up the problem never resurfaced, and I had taken quite a few long trips since with it never dropping into 2nd again.

Another thing I might add is that the original knob that comes with the Lokar has a button you push down to change gears. I liked it in the beginning, but Dan bought me a large Lucky Lady knob at Daytona one year and I put it on, with the required adapter. At first I didn't care for it, but learned to like it a lot.. In fact, I just removed it and reinstalled the original when I sold the car because it was a gift that I wanted to keep, and it was really hard to get used to driving the car with the original push button knob again. During the recent trip to the Street Rod Nats in Tampa I found myself having to guess at what gear I was going into.

Don

Don, Thanks for the tip on solving the accidential down shifting problem, when driving over bumpy roads (I've had that since day one with my Lokar). It'll be easier to drink my coffee now ,lol

Since this thread started I have gotten some (dang few:HMMM:) miles on my car and will stand by what I said a year ago about the Lokar: it's pretty, works fine but I shoulda had a cable shifter. I'm fairly tall at 6'4" and you can probably guess my right knee keeps "helping" my shifts - and usually at inappropriate times. I'll probably just get a shorter lever to move it closer to the floor and will then have TWO used Lokar shift levers to try and sell, the original 23" plus the current 16":CRY::CRY:

I used a Lokar in the 32 car that is in my gallery---issue with it mounted on the 4l80 trans was that the geometry between the shifter and the trans is impossible to get right with a rod going between them---to get the proper and correct relationship I ran the rod back to a pivot arm mounted on the crossmember and another forward to the trans arm. There was no other way to get the trans and shifter on the same page about park, neutral and shift detents---

On my wifes 33 I used a shifter from a Camaro with a cable

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

I used a Lokar in the 32 car that is in my gallery---issue with it mounted on the 4l80 trans was that the geometry between the shifter and the trans is impossible to get right with a rod going between them---to get the proper and correct relationship I ran the rod back to a pivot arm mounted on the crossmember and another forward to the trans arm. There was no other way to get the trans and shifter on the same page about park, neutral and shift detents---

On my wifes 33 I used a shifter from a Camaro with a cable

---

What you did, Jerry was considered as the angle between the Lokar shifter arm and the tranny arm is very acute - but it does work for my C4

Heck - I didn't even mention other mods I made as it's just a part of roddin' and making 'generic' aftermarket parts work:whacked: I replaced their puny .25 threaded rod and cheapo stamped Heim linkage setup with much better .3125 hardware and redid the C4 shift arm bracket with stronger material - though I did keep the geometry the same. I'm also using a couple of set screws(instead of one) to tighten everything snug to the tranny case then shortened their mounting bracket.

I have a Gennie rear mount shifter in my '32. It works fine but the damn thing vibrates and the noise drives me nuts. Everything is tight. I emailed them about it and I was told to tighten down the nut that adjusts the detente spring. It helped a little, but it wasn't until I replaced the plastic knob with a steel one that it reduced it to tolerable. Personally, I liked the B&M Quick Silver I had in my other rod, but my interior is designed around this one so I guess I will have to live with it.

i kike the mr gasket detente shifter . i hate ratchet shifters on a street car . plus it is only 118 bucks. and it is a cable shift.