Title Question

Talked to a guy last night about a project he has been working on for about 6 years that pretty well fits my ideal project, which he bought in progress at a swap meet about 2001. Long story short, it is a roller that needs to be finished - not drivable, and never titled. Kansas will title home builts, but the rules to protect against using stolen parts are very strict - OEM receipts for anything bought outright like frame & body, chassis parts, etc (even little stuff from the local auto parts); and salvage title links to anything coming from another vehicle, like engine, tranny, differential, etc. As you can expect, this guy has kept no receipts - none!

I hate to pass on a deal like this, but I also don't want to spend the $$$ on something that I will never be able to title. Does anyone have any experience that might give me an avenue to get a legal title in this situation?

rog

Call these guys....they'll set you up:

http://www.its-titles.com/74price.htm

-Lee
Atomic Radio
www.atomicpinup.com

I used to live on OP KS. The guy (now retired) that helped implement the Kansas rules was a real jerk, and his handiwork lives on after him.

I had a friend with a T-bucket (completed car) that had a valid title in Missouri. He never could register it because it would have to be converted to a home-built, subject to the same receipt bullbleep.

Is this a pre-49 car that is being altered/modified? If so, you may be able to get by with the street rod affidavit and a bill of sale from the current owner . . . and maybe not.

I don't know what to tell you, other than to go talk to the inspector and talk to one. Tell him/her the situation and see what they say. Kansas is one of the tougher places to do this.

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Originally Posted by Lee Martin

Call these guys....they'll set you up:

http://www.its-titles.com/74price.htm

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With all due respect, if you try that in Kansas, you might lose the car - and end up with a big fine and/or jail time. That's "title washing", and most states are familiar with it. In Virginia and most other states, it's a felony.

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

With all due respect, if you try that in Kansas, you might lose the car - and end up with a big fine and/or jail time. That's "title washing", and most states are familiar with it. In Virginia and most other states, it's a felony.

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Good to know. It's tough in Virginia to get a VIN. I had to jump through hoops to get mine. Eventually I did, but the state police had to come to my house to attach the plate.

I know a lot of folks use these titling companies to register kit cars. Most that I know never have a problem, but I guess if you get caught it's hell to pay.

Jack wrote:

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Kansas is one of the tougher places to do this

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Unfortunately, many of the states are going the same route. PA implemented the same rules back in 2001 with a 46 page application for a title for a reconstructed vehicle (hotrod/steetrod/etc). I was lucky that I got in just before that became mandatory. My app was only 9 pages. Last year PA went to a specialized inspection for all reconstructed vehicle title apps, regardless of whether you built it or bought it. Now you have to have the vehicle inspected by a special licenced inspection station prior to recieving the title and again prior to putting the vehicle on the road. Whole process is one big pain in the butt.

Guess they want to make sure they get every tax cent they can out of you.:mad:

Getting a VIN on a Street Rod in Virginia is much easier since July of last year. There are still some hoops, and a DMV officer has to attach the plate, but it's no big deal now.

They now have instructions on the state DMV web page. Mine was a little tougher because I submitted my application the day after the bill became law. No one knew what they were doing.

It is easier in Virginia since July 2007. The only tough part was providing all the receipts (they needed more than just the powertrain and roller). Certificate of origin and statement and manufacture are also required.

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

....Is this a pre-49 car that is being altered/modified? If so, you may be able to get by with the street rod affidavit and a bill of sale from the current owner . . . and maybe not.

I don't know what to tell you, other than to go talk to the inspector and talk to one. Tell him/her the situation and see what they say. Kansas is one of the tougher places to do this.

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Jack,
You & I have traded some messages on this before, and I did visit with a lady (female - not commenting on her character) inspector at the station - she's the one that told me I would need receipts and/or OEM certificates for anything and everything down to the bulbs in the lights. I have not been back on this specific vehicle, only talked generalities about a scratch builts with them. This one is a '33 with the frame & glass body built a guy down south as much as 8 or 9 years ago, sold to the current owner at a swap meet about 2001. The current Owner has been adding to it since, to the point that it is probably 90+ percent complete - I have only talked to him, and have not yet seen the project. When I asked about receipts, OEM certs, and ties to salvage titles the response was "...none of that stuff."

I think it is best for me to pass, regardless how good the deal may seem, and start from scratch, or from something already titled - and ideally in KS. Thanks for the help, again.

Rog,
That's what I mean. There is NOTHING in the Kansas law that requires you to keep track of everything down to the lightbulbs. The lady you talked to is about as ignorant of the law as the guy who set up the original procedure. Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do about it. It's truly unfortunate that they have dolts like this in charge. I think you're right to pass.

Lee,
Correct. I had a MSO for the body and frame from Gibbon Fiberglass, so I was covered there. I purposely kept receipts for the motor and trans. They didn't ask me about the rear axle when I titled my '34.

I'm not sure what they would do if someone built their own frame. I guess you'd have to state that, then you'd better have a MSO or title for the body.

It's odd how some states are moving towards making it simpler, and some are trying to essentially legislate street rods off the planet.

Oh . . . and I never said this, but receipts can be generated. MSOs and Titles pretty much have to be legit.

Is it possible or even legal to title the car in another state that's more hot rod friendly- then after it's done, transfer the titled car to your state?

Generally not.

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Originally Posted by Steves32

Is it possible or even legal to title the car in another state that's more hot rod friendly- then after it's done, transfer the titled car to your state?

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That's fine and will work - but unfortunately you'll have a residency requirement in the titling state - you'll need move twice to title a car:LOL: :LOL: .

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Originally Posted by Steves32

Is it possible or even legal to title the car in another state that's more hot rod friendly- then after it's done, transfer the titled car to your state?

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Lawful yes...legal in the the eyes of the law no. In WA. many people would by an RV in Oregon title and license it there to avoid paying the at the time exorbiant taxes and fees for WA plates .WA DMV soon caught onto the scam and many owners were fined big time plus had to license the RV and pay the WA taxes/fees if they wanted to use the RV.
Several Cobra owners a few years back were caught in CA using title companies and/or registering their cars out of state. Some of them faced stiff fines and impoundment of their vechicles. Several had their plates and registration pulled and the car could no longer be licensed in CA so they ended up getting sold out of state or sat in the garage.

Stay away from title companies most state DMV offices anymore will not accept a title company title, to many bogus titles and claims to avoid taxes, etc. Think about it you spend your hard earned dollars to build/buy your dream ride then risk it all to avoid paying taxes or fees? Doesn't seem worth it to me.

I talked to a guy at work today about a '35 Sedan he's been driving occasionally. He bought it at auction here in KC with an Iowa title. When he went to register it the DMV told him that the VIN plate was obviously not an original, and that they would not approve the transfer to Kansas. After a bit of conversation they told him his alternative was to get a court order. He researched a bit and completed the process without hiring a lawyer, going to state court to petition for the title from Iowa to be recognized. Worked out OK, and cost him between $200 and $300.

Problem for my situation is that I would be trying to convince the Judge that the guy I bought the untitled roller from was honest, that nothing on the vehicle is less than legitimate, and petitioning for a VIN - not quite the same.

Kansas is a great place to live, but if you're a hot rodder, it can suck big time. However, you may want to check on, and lobby for Kansas H.B. 2875. It apparently is still being evaluated, but the legislature comes back into session on 12 JAN 2009.

Passage of the bill may not make the process with receipts simpler, but it certainly is an improvement.

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Kansas is a great place to live, but if you're a hot rodder, it can suck big time.

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...so I said to my constant companion, Toto, why are we flying along with some houses and why are those people dressed so funny - like a scarecrow? and like a man in a tin suit? and another dressed like a lion......?

. . . and Toto replied, "apparently, we've drifted into California, because we aren't in Kansas anymore, Dorothy."