Throttle cable dilemma

I was going to cut and fit up my throttle cable yesterday - and might have a problem. The engine in my car has a significant set back for a couple of reasons - first of all, TCI installed the motor mounts an inch further back then they should have been. Great radiator clearance and almost makes me want to run a mechanical fan rather then the electric, but since it's already there........ The other problem is that Brookville supplied a 3" recessed fire wall instead of the ordered 5" . The lower half was modified to fit around the engine and bell housing, but I left the upper half at 3" to have room for my a/c and heater assembly.

The above brings me to my problem - there is only 5" between the Lokar throttle cable bracket and the firewall - which in my opinion is not enough room for some motor movement slack - Lokar recommends 2", and I could say that they recommend too much, that 1" would work in a normal situation. I wont have any slack with the firewall and bracket ferrules with only about 3" total flex cable shown. My fix would be a solid mechanical link, using rod ends and a piece of rod.

Any comment on this idea?? Should I consider 3/16" or just do the 1/4" and make sure I have enough "beef"??

I make my own with 1/4" stainless rod threaded 1/4-28.
A couple of female Heim joints and stainless nuts will do it.

You can get Heim joints at lots of places, but some of the best are at your Local Bearing House.

$7. each last time I bought some about 2 years back.

The stainless rod buffs up easily and so do the aluminum Heims although I don't usually polish them.
Some of my pals do and as long as you clean the bufing abrasive out of them, no probs.

Only other thing you'll need is a heat blocking device where the rod exits the firewall.
The 32.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...rwithtitle.jpg

Some pics of the 31s dual quad setup
Note that the throttle rod rises and falls vertically during operation.
You have to account for that when you cut the hole in the firewall.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...fansmall-1.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...dSeal-Idle.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...-Depressed.jpg

4" firewall recess fwiw.

After I posted I started to look at the McMaster Carr on-line catalog and have just about come up with the same idea though was looking for some internally threaded tubing and male Heim instead, but will probably settle on what you did. Those Lokar cables are nice, but in my case as well as yours, wont work so it's back to the tried and proven.

What did you use for that insulation material? I think I have some .125 sheet Buna-N that might work.

After I posted I started to look at the McMaster Carr on-line catalog and have just about come up with the same idea though was looking for some internally threaded tubing and male Heim instead, but will probably settle on what you did. Those Lokar cables are nice, but in my case as well as yours, wont work so it's back to the tried and proven.

What did you use for that insulation material? I think I have some .125 sheet Buna-N that might work.

The one on my T is a Lokar and luckily I had enough room for a nice curve in it, but when we installed the Lokar one on my Son's T he has 2 fours, so the rear carb is pretty much right at the firewall. It created a steep bend in the cable. We couldn't figure out another way to do it, so we went with it bent that way, and it actually seems to work pretty well.

I don't know how it will accelerate the wear inside the cable being bent that much, but I just wanted to let you know they will work on weird angles. I don't have any pictures showing the one in Don's T, but here is one of my T. As you can see, mine is only about 7 inches long and now that I look at it, the bend is fairly severe.

Don

Don,
Thanks.
I only wish I had 7" of space - I just remeasured mine and have a hair under 4" allowing for the ferrules. I had no clue it was this close until yesterday when I took a break from wiring to set this throttle cable up. I've spent some time in the McMaster-Carr catalog and ordered some SS Heims and some SS rod. Guess I'll need to sell the cable now to pay for this new expenditure:D It should show up in the for sale threads in a few days:HMMM:

This is what I ended up with along with a chunk of 309 SS rod. The rod ends are not SS though but "A PTFE-lubricated, carbon-fiber-reinforced plastic race provides wear resistance and doesn't require lubrication. Rod ends are three-piece and have a zinc-plated steel housing and ball". These have almost twice the load capacity of the SS versions. I suspect that a bit of 0000 steel wool will polish them just fine then a coat of clear will keep 'em shiny. UPS will deliver today!!!!

Now that you've spent the money and are standing guard at the mailbox, there's another way out.

Which . . . still makes use of the Heims and rod.


Set up a bracket with bell crank or a simple swinging arm near the front of the engine (or at least in front of the carb throttle arm), run the throttle cable to it.

Run a short rod with Heims back to the carburetor.

That way, the firewall seal is easy and you have a smooth, long turn to the bellcrank/arm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by C9x

Which . . . still makes use of the Heims and rod.


Set up a bracket with bell crank or a simple swinging arm near the front of the engine (or at least in front of the carb throttle arm), run the throttle cable to it.

That way, the firewall seal is easy and you have a smooth, long turn to the bellcrank/arm.

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Too much complication:3dSMILE: ....and there really are no spare manifold bosses with tapped hole left ahead of the carb. What I will be doing is making up something like your "weather guard' using a couple of.25 thick X 2" dia. aluminum round stock, a piece of .125 neoprene outside and possibly another inside. The rise and fall will probably be minimal (need to 'calculate it' ) so vertical splits in the neoprene should do me

I failed to explain it earlier, but the throttle rod heat guard/pass through has a Teflon floater within that follows the vertical travels of the throttle rod.

The one on the 32 is about 10 years old and the original hole in the Teflon floater was drilled 1/4".
The 1/4" rod fit the 1/4" hole with a bit of friction, but not much.
A few months later it was very free and hasn't shown any further wear.

Well, made up a nice piece of throttle linkage - but used 3/16 (10-32 instead of the 1/4") as my Edelbrock carb is set up for that size. Now I have a spare pair of 1/4" Heims - but no big deal, they'll get used eventually somewhere.

I measured well and drilled a 3/8 - 7/16 hole. Every thing lines up nicely - that is except the fact that my throttle pedal has major bushing slop - like ~1/2 at the linkage bolt hole/tip. I don't recall what brand it is, but it isn't a cheapy. I could easily fix it if I had a lathe or a mill, but since I don't have either, I need some recommendations for another brand of pedal that is well made. Obviously the Lokar and Billet Specialties are the prime pieces - but at $100 or so bucks, makes me want to pursue other choices first. Any suggestions:D ????

My 32's Gennie Shifter throttle pedal has very little play.
Even now, 14 years and 48,000 miles later.

I guess I've narrowed it down - either the Gennie or the Speedway Mr Roadster version. I used a TCI on my last car, but it appears that they no longer offer them. That, too, was a nice solid pedal.

C9 - a "help me" question - what is the approximate firewall bracket bolt centerline dim and secondly, the arm centerline dims from the pivot to the linkage hole. Since I already have firewall holes, want to know if I need to make up some brackets as well.

As always, thanks

Irelands Child, before you buy a new pedal setup, check your PM's.. I think I can help you out easily.

The spacing between the two mounting bolts?

And the length of the upper arm and lower pedal arm end?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by C9x

The spacing between the two mounting bolts?

And the length of the upper arm and lower pedal arm end?

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For the first, yes,

For the second, between the pivot pin and throttle link hole (i.e. from the middle to the top)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IC2

For the first, yes,

For the second, between the pivot pin and throttle link hole (i.e. from the middle to the top)

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Mounting bolt holes are 2" apart vertically.

Pivot center to throttle hole is 4 3/4".


Fwiw, The Gennie Shifter has splines and a setscrew arrangement so you can alter the angle between throttle rod arm and spoon arm.

As assembled, the GS has the spoon on the left and throttle arm on the right.
Which, works well for just about all of the cars I've seen to date that run this arm.
If need be you could flop the spoon and throttle arms and get the arms 3/4" opposite from where they are now.


Fwiw - the all aluminum Teflon bushed throttle pedal I made has a one piece spoon and throttle rod arm.
It's centered on the bracket . . . and for my specific car - the 31 on 32 rails roadster.


If you're looking at the measurements for curiosity sake, ok, but sometimes companies make running changes during manufacture and the measurements can be a little different.
I'd wait before I drilled any holes.
I was careful in the measuring, but nothing quite like having the piece on hand before cutting metal.


A couple years back Moon told me that the new screw-on discs had the same factory bolt pattern (3) and spacing as the factory drilled ones from years past.
Not true, I bought the new ones and they were off from the old discs I'd originally put on the car.

Dunno if the pics will help, but it'll give you an idea.
Disregard the size 10 shoe, it's slid too far up on the pedal.


http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...floorshoe2.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...er/Gauges2.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...32interior.jpg

My pal built his 29 roadster with a chrome plated steel throttle arm.
Priced about half of what the polished stainless arm in my 32 was.
Seemed like it worked out ok.
I drove the car a few times and didn't notice any play in the bushing.

Thanks for the dimensions.

It wasn't curiosity - I was worried that the bracket holes were going to be way different then what I had drilled for the piece of junk currently in the car plus the linkage hole would be too far off. The dims you gave me will put a Gennie right in place with no mods or at worst case no more then minor oversizing of one with a rattail file.

The way you describe the pedal 'as supplied' is how mine is currently set up - and from what I've seen, most universal pedals will reverse.

I'm going to order the SS version - heck, it's only money - and at this point, another $30 beyond the chrome version..........:CRY: :CRY:

I'm glad that I had the 2 extra 1/4" Heims - they have just been used. I was looking at the link between my Lokar shifter and the arm on the transmission. One of their supplied links was splitting open and the ball was coming loose - it was one of those cheap sheet metal Heims. And yes, the alignment was fine.

Any problems with the Pacific Western wiper motor? I KNOW that it NEVER rains in AZ, but...... I have one as well, rather then use one of those marine clunks that seem so popular.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IC2

I'm glad that I had the 2 extra 1/4" Heims - they have just been used. I was looking at the link between my Lokar shifter and the arm on the transmission. One of their supplied links was splitting open and the ball was coming loose - it was one of those cheap sheet metal Heims. And yes, the alignment was fine.

Any problems with the Pacific Western wiper motor? I KNOW that it NEVER rains in AZ, but...... I have one as well, rather then use one of those marine clunks that seem so popular.

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Sometimes it does.;)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...Cloudburst.jpg


Fwiw, you can buy fair quality Heims at Orchard Supply, tractor stores and the like.
The tractor stores tend to have the pressed sheet metal Heims and hardware stores will have a very Heim looking Heim joint.
Quality as noted is fair and not up to what you get at an aircraft supply house or at a bearing house, but it can get you out of a tight spot.
It did once after little brother bent a male Heim on his Lenco shifter.

Last bearing house 1/4" Heims I bought - about 2 years back - were $7. each.

The Pacific Raingear wiper works ok, but I depend on Rain-X and seldom run the PR wiper . . . 'cept by accident once in a while when I inadvertently hit the switch.
The headlights, parking lights, heater and wiper switch are under the dash and about an inch apart.
EZ to hit the wrong one now and then

With a chopped windshield it doesn't cover much of the windshield.

First time out with the roadster I ran into a fog bank and it was tough seeing through the little hole from the cut-down wiper blade.

This pic shows how far the blade needs to be cut down.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ersView32x.jpg

One rainy day out of how many - where I'm at, there's usually more rain then Buffalo(but a lot less snow:D ).

I too depend on Rain-X even for my DD F350 Guzzle10. The Pacific Western wiper is mostly for NY State Inspection and NSRA 23. I have a 13.25 DeLuxe roadster frame so will have some of the same situation

The Heims that I bought were fairly cheap from McMaster Carr and with overnight shipping from NJ, you can't beat it. The high strength 1/4" were $5.11 each and the 10-32's were $4.97 each. Even with shipping, it was still cheaper then cranking up the Guzzle10 and running round trip, 40 miles, to Albany and the bearing store.

I'm finally doing the last bolt in and adjustment of my Gennie $hifter throttle pedal. While the dimensions are identical to the sloppy POS that I had, the linkage wouldn't line up quite right. Pulled it apart and that $92 pedal:CRY: had a .125 bend the wrong way - a quick removal to my vise, a whang with my dead blow hammer and all is now right:D.

I really don't mind making 'adjustments' to a lot (most?) of the aftermarket parts I buy as they are in most cases a very low production run item. But something as basic and having been around for many years as this pedal shouldn't have a twist or a bend (I also should have seen the bend, but.....:o )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IC2

I'm finally doing the last bolt in and adjustment of my Gennie $hifter throttle pedal. While the dimensions are identical to the sloppy POS that I had, the linkage wouldn't line up quite right. Pulled it apart and that $92 pedal:CRY: had a .125 bend the wrong way - a quick removal to my vise, a whang with my dead blow hammer and all is now right:D.

I really don't mind making 'adjustments' to a lot (most?) of the aftermarket parts I buy as they are in most cases a very low production run item. But something as basic and having been around for many years as this pedal shouldn't have a twist or a bend (I also should have seen the bend, but.....:o )

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Dave, The Gennie throttle pedal was designed specifically bent the wrong way just for you. Gennie was taking into consideration that your gas pedal foot might be REAL HEAVY and with you really getting on the gas Gennie figured you would bend it in the RIGHT direction making it line up perfectly! :LOL:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stylingZ

Dave, The Gennie throttle pedal was designed specifically bent the wrong way just for you. Gennie was taking into consideration that your gas pedal foot might be REAL HEAVY and with you really getting on the gas Gennie figured you would bend it in the RIGHT direction making it line up perfectly! :LOL:

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I work best finessing errant parts problems with big hammers. It really wasn't a problem as such, just disappointing. I also have the Gennie head light bar but didn't have any fit up problems(well none that a sharp drill bit taken to my 'glass front fenders didn't cure:LOL: :LOL: )

I agree, it is disappointing to take a brand new item out of the box and have to rebuild it before you can use it. There are a few manufacturers whose products are perfect when you get them, and it is really refreshing when you find them.

Don