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My friend and I had a disagreement on the subject of a Gasser style car being considered as a rat rod. I am building my 55 buick in a gasser style street rod, and he considers any type of classic car construction, as a rat rod. I just would like other educated opinions on this matter, as I define a rat rod in a different class as a gasser class even though it is just a suspension style
Man, that makes my head spin. **)Quote:
Originally posted by knuckledragger
I am building my 55 buick in a gasser style street rod, and he considers any type of classic car construction, as a rat rod.
If you look near the top of the page you'll see a link to the search function. Pay attention to the instruction on the search page about needing to use the wild card to get to the 4 letter minimum, e.g. rat* rod*. Search your other terms too as there's been quite a bit of discussion.
Briefly though you demonstrate what has happened over time with the gross misuse of terminology. In one sentence above you've boggled my mind. Here are some quickies.
Gasser= high nose, lower tail, but not overall as low as a taildragger custom. Based on early '60's drag race concepts of improving weight transfer. The "standard" Willys look of Stone-Woods-Cook for example.
Street rod= term coined by National Street Rod Association to define street driven rods based on cars built BEFORE 1949 model year.
Classic= originally a label used only to describe high quality, elegant luxury cars from the '20's and '30's. Now so grossly bastardized that ANY car is refered to as a classic by it's owner if he thinks it's worth more than it really is.
Rat Rod= relatively new terminology used to describe a car built on the cheap (supposedly). When it first came into use it was intended to signify a car built in a similar style as those done by rodders of the late '40's to somewhere around the late '50's to early '60's. Disregard for accuracy has become so blatant that in short order almost any guy who sprays any "old" car with flat paint considers his car a rat rod, even though it may be stock otherwise or newer than the time frame noted. There is also a subset of people, usually those that weren't around at the time and too lazy to do any good research, that believe for a car to be representative of the period noted above it has to look like a piece of junk. Rust out on various panels, broomed on paint, ratty or no upholstery, dirt accumulated all over, and generally appearing to have little "sophistication". Some have done this to be humorous, some as a counter statement to the billet style of rod. Unfortunately some have become ponderously tiresome in their belief that only a rat rod appearing car can be "authentic". In reality, just as today, rods of the period came in all levels of quality. People with skills and an artful touch produced some very high quality cars with nice paint, upholstery, and accessories. Those possessing less talent, or talents of a different stripe, produced cars with less "quality".
I admire your willingness to ask for clarification rather than assuming you already know it all.
For one thing the idea of building a 55 buick as a gasser is cooler than hell and the other it would be considered a rat rod by my book. My definition of a rat rod is anything built more for speed or function than style. Theyre usually built with some if not mostly all nostalgic parts and will resemble the early style rods. The only reason that flat black or primer is usually considered the only paint for rat rods is that in the old days a guys rod usually never got out of the primer stage since it was never done and anyways a good paint job cant make you go any faster. Though still having a good period style paint job would be acceptable. Were only trying to build rods in the style and spirit of the old rods not trying to build purposely cars that are rough or "beaters".
As for suspension the only way to go is either with a stock suspension, lifted or lowered, or with a straight axle. Sorry for being so wordy I just hate guys with billet laden cars that all have 350/350 combos, a 9 inch rear and mustang 2 frontends. Now they have their builder paint them flat black, throw a mexican blanket across the leather seats and they call it a rat rod when its nothing but a street rod.
your car is what you define it, rat to me is 20's or 30's car the bare minimums of road worthy and top speed being top priority light weight minimal interior one wiper v8 motor loud no fenders lacking chrome and usually flat black in color etc.....I personally like movie cars nothing beats the american graphitti deuce, the california kid or two lane black tops 55, all built to go fast the last being more ratty just because it was rougher on the finish and trim part cage only front seats no glass or window regulators fiberglass were ever it could be substituted. I think you can make a good looking "rat rod" or "gasser" it just depends on the builder, I have seen primer black, red rims, white walls and channelled until its almost dragin ground, and have seen real clean minimal chrome smal channel and newer polished rims called rat rod I have seen everthing called rat rod. I don't define rat rod rust rod junk rods rot bomb rods beater rods or gassers or nostalgic as anything other that what they are hot rods some better than others heres some pics. Btw to me gassers are 50's-60's car with low back high front sometimes with an altered wheel base may be a straight axle in front and no bumper..got a pic of yours ? heres link to many types of hot rods I like enjoy http://www.ckdeluxemag.com/showcase/...&action=browse
Gasser= high nose, lower tail, but not overall as low as a taildragger custom. Based on early '60's drag race concepts of improving weight transfer. The "standard" Willys look of Stone-Woods-Cook for example.
something like this is an early example of a gasser style
this is a pic of what I would call a gasser...sorry about the poor quality
I tend to agree with the more literal interpretations. I think of a gasser as a 40-50s car with a high end front, backset engine, slightly lowered rear and straight use. A Rat rod is meant to be beat on, but to go fast. Thats it. Put in your extra money for extra parts, and see how it does. A 55 buick would be a nice gasser.
I am using an 428 pontiac (that or a 392 "double rocker" also known as a hemi) with a 4 speed muncie, using a 50's era chevy truck front suspension dual paralel front leafs, setting the motor back a few in's. the hard part is to try and find someone who make a full fiber front panel piece hopefully someone out there makes one, if not try and make a mold and do it myself. its going to take awhile to get everything the way I want it to be and look but it will get there some day
like an A altered for the street!**)
What's with all these titles and definitions???? Build what ya like, and call it your car. If it doesn't fit someone else's catagory by definition or appearance, who cares???? What hot rodding started as is a guy taking what he had and building what he wanted by whatever means he had available. As far as "educated opinions" the only one that counts is your own. If you have $100,000 to spend on it, fine. If you have $1,000.00 to spend on it, that's fine too. I have never and will never build a car for the sole reason of meeting someone else's standard of what my car should look like.
I don't see why anyone thinks they have the right to bad mouth someone else because they did or did not spend to much money or it does or does not have billet parts. I like anyone's car if they did the majority of the work, the ideas, and the planning themselves. They only ones I can't get excited about are the ones built with a big check book and the owner did absolutely none of the work himself. Hot rodding started out as and should always remain an expression of one's own ideas, concepts, and abilities. Dare to be different, and to hell with the catagories and stereotyping.
Right on with the "no stereotype" reply.
I have cars that I couldn't put in a category if I wanted to.
Example: my f100, not a leadsled because it's a truck, not a truck because its only 1 1/2 inches from Mother Earth, not a rod because it weighs too much, not a Kustom because it has "suede" blue paint, you get the idea.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dave Severson
[B]What's with all these titles and definitions???? Build what ya like, and call it your car. If it doesn't fit someone else's catagory by definition or appearance, who cares???? What hot rodding started as is a guy taking what he had and building what he wanted by whatever means he had available.
AMEN to that....
The rat rod approach to building a 55 Buick would result in a beater not a rat rod. A gasser is more race car than street rod. They weren't originally intended for street use. If you put a gasser on the street I guess it could be considered a street rod but it takes too much work to build a gasser for it ever to be considered a rat.
I'm glad you didn't ask if you should put a straight axle under your car because most of the guys on here would say not to do it. But you seem to know what you're doing and if you have the skills, tools and freinds to build a gasser I think a 55 Buick is a great choice.
The straight axle and engine setback are only part of the gasser look. You need to move the rear axle and wheel opening forward 10 to 12 inches and have wheelie bars hanging down in the back.
AL
I'm currently getting the lion's share of the parts together to turn my '56 Plymouth Belvedere 2dr post into a daily driver with gasser-inspired radiused wheelwells, a fairly large, fairly plain steel hood scoop, no front bumper, with mostly stock interior and a shiny, paint job using '60's era Mopar stock color of some sort. No radical modern graphics or color-changing paint. Period wheels, probably TorqThrust D's maybe Torqthrust D's in front, Ansen Sprints in the rear. I'm sub-framing it to get disk brakes and the sideways-mounted torsion bars to get the front end at the height that looks good once it's done, and am using a Schumacher kit to put a 440/TF 727 combo in it. I plan to call it "my car" and don't care what the anal nit-pickers pigeon-hole it as. BTW, there were quite a few 50's cars that were bona-fide "gassers" Henry J's, tri-5 Chevy's, even qhite a few Buicks. Check out this site if you're into old gassers. http://www.gassermadness.com/index.html
I still believe a low buck straight axled or just lifted front suspension 55 buick gasser would be considered a rat rod. I dont think youd want to go through the work of altering the wheelbase as thats more of an early to mid 60's style and its not really worth doing it unless you plan on racing the nostalgic circuit proffessionally.
Here's an idea of what I've got planned for my '56.
Tech, sorry about that. I realized what I'd done, but didn't get my stuff together to fix it before you posted. I'm using a front sub-frame from a 1984 Chrysler 5th Avenue. Instead of the old longitudinally-mounted torsion bars that extended back under the car, the m-body Mopars utilize bars that mount sideways, or transversely, by the front cross-member.
Tech, I'm not sure why they changed the design. I was talking to a friend about using a newer front stub to get better brakes and all, and he suggested the M-body, as I wouldn't have to run the torsion bars back along the frame, and still be able to adjust ride height. Plus, the track is real close to the '56.
animalracer nice car, I have always liked the look of the 50's MoPar. what carb set up are you going to use? Well sounds like its going to be a bad ass car when you get it done.
Should be a kewl ride, animal. The transverse torision bars are a neat idea. Heck, they work good on sprint cars, same theory with a bit different hardware. Please post some picks as you go along.
As I plan on driving this car to work every day, engine mods will be minimal. I plan to use a moderate cam with an Edelbrock 650 carb. All the smog crap, a/c, and other non-essentials will go to the trash. I bought a digital camera on ebay just to document the progress of this project. I'll definitely post pics as I go along. Things should hopefully get going in the next few weeks. I finally got heat in my garage, and have almost found a home for all my tools, etc. so I have room to move the Plymouth in. Progress will depend a lot on side jobs, but my paint booth is ready, and there are always people who want something painted inexpensively. I've become accustomed to trading my labor cheap to get things I can't afford, so I'm sure this will happen. Just hope to have it on the road by mid-summer.
I guess I don't know where my 55 fit. ratrod or gasser
Well I think it would be three things, it is a gasser but its also a hot rod and by todays standards something built like that would as well be considered a rat rod. Well those are just terms and all that matters is that its an awesome chevy.Quote:
Originally posted by doctor al
I guess I don't know where my 55 fit. ratrod or gasser
gasser , killer gasser , killer car .it only needs a good set of americans on front .
in my opinion , read that, in my opinion ,rat rod is a general term that can be good or bad .IF YOU ARE TRYING TO BE A RAT ROD GOOD ,if not and you did a poor job bad.
i have a rod shop that builds high tech cars , and i respect all cars rat rod or high tech .
as long as the rat rod is a safe car
i wish i could build myself a low dollar ,cool,32 ,steel wheels , flat head , mexican blanket covered seat , hidden disc brakes .i dig these cars like that .
thanks streets. hot rod is what I call'em all.
Now, THAT's what I'm talking about! I really love the old gasser styling cues on 50's cars. I'm with you on the "hot rod" deal, but a while back I was informed on this forum that a "hot rod" is pre-49. "Street Machine" just doesn't do it for me, so I'll just call it my car and late at night when I'm all alone, I'll whisper sweet nothings in it's ram air intakes and call it my......HOT ROD!
lol that is awesome animal. Now that is a real closness with you car if you ask me. Dr Al nice 55!
Dr, Al. I don't even like chebbies, but just wanted to let you know that if you still don't know where it fits, it would fit in my shop just fine !!!!! Just trying to help end your confusion!!! Tee Hee Hee