Chop is looking good. What type custom frame is it going on and how deep will the chanel be? Looks like it may be a tight fit inside cab for you.
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Chop is looking good. What type custom frame is it going on and how deep will the chanel be? Looks like it may be a tight fit inside cab for you.
Yeah, I was thinking how cramped my friends stock 31 pickup was.Quote:
Originally Posted by OFT
THe 2"x4" frame will be under the channeled body. I plan to build the floor on top of the frame, so will loose another 5" of room...4" frame and 1" for floor support equals the 5" .....the seat will need to be a 4-5" thick foam cushion with no seat framework to keep the seat height to a minimum.
Frame question:
I plan to airbag this car and I am looking for clean, simple way to airbag a Split wishbone suspension. any idea or perhaps some pics or links would be very helpful. I am about 2 weeks from frame building. help please!!
thankyou, Jeff
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Frame question:
I plan to airbag this car and I am looking for clean, simple way to airbag a Split wishbone suspension. any idea or perhaps some pics or links would be very helpful. I am about 2 weeks from frame building. help please!!
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Cenpen makes a cool setup that replaces the traditional Ford cross spring with an airbag setup. My Kid used one on the front of the first version of his RPU, and mounted it suicide instead of the way it was intended, on top of the axle.
Here are a couple of shots of how he did it.
Don
Itoldyouso....thanks for the pics, i cant really tell where the airbags are mounted or how the airbag pushes on the frame/wishbone. If you have any other info that would be great. anyone else have pics of a neat wishbone/airbag setup?
some pics of the chopped cab and windshield frame, rear window trim.Attachment 31700
Attachment 31701
Attachment 31702
Attachment 31703
I made some patch panels at work on the brake press....to fit the contour of the door bottom. I cut the rusty steel out of the door with the plasma cutter (borrowed from a buddy) and welded the door panels in...:3dSMILE:
I patched both doors and the bottom of the cab....the key is to remove the thin rust and get clean metal.
I bought 1956 Ford F100 brakes on Craigslist for $125. I bought the bearing kit from Speedway motors to adapt to the 1941 Ford Spindle. You dont need the kit, .....you can merely buy the correct bearings....i read this in an article of Ol Skool Rods...the kit is only $39.00 for the right bearings. This will give me decent brakes on the old car front axle.
I put new bearings in the hubs using an alum drift and hammer. I would love to buy a press for this rather that beating stuff with a hammer....:CRY:
I found that the kingpin bushings were sloppy so i bought the SPeedway kit and installed them into the spindles with a special tool i made in my lathe...yes....i just picked up a used lathe.
Patch panels look good on there. Yep, the truck brakes are a nice swap and give a lot better braking. A little grinding on the top of the spindle is all that is usually needed to give you clearance, that, and the wheel bearings you mentioned.
Coming along really well. :) :) How are you planning on honing the kingpin bushings?
Don
PS: I see you mention a press. We didn't own one for years, then I bought a 12 ton one from Harbor Freight on sale. We use that thing all the time now, and don't know how we ever lived without it.
:) I used a pipe machined down to hold the bushing as an install tool......pounded the bushing in with a hammer....Now the fun part. I found out that you must "line bore" or ream the bushings to .813"...the pins are .8125". Keeping the bushing bores straight to each other is a task...SO i got a .8125" reamer and put it in my lathe. I then put a dead center in the tailstock and held the spindle in the lathe. This way the bushings are IN LINE and bored them with the lathe. I manually fed the tailstock to push the spindle onto the ream. The reamer wasnt long enought so i went from both sides... When finished reaming, i use a brake hone to get the last .0005"...the pins slipped in like BUTTER!! They fit snug but not too tight. just right.....:)
The reaming was the fun part. The pins fit nicely. I "snuck up" on the sizing using the hone for the last bit....only about 20-30 sec of honing to get the size just right. I suppose in 100 miles or so they will be broke in and loose...i thought of the needle bearing kit vs the cheap bushings, but that would blow the rat 3k budget!!!!! I thought about not replacing the bushings, but i want the car tight, safe, and roadworthy.:3dSMILE:
I've thought of the needle bearing kits too, but they are pricey. I have also seen some negative feedback on them on various forums. They aren't all that they are cracked up to be, according to some people who pulled them back out and put good old fashioned bushings back in.
Don
I bought this used lathe from a friend about a month ago....it is an ENCO 13x40". It is 2 yrs old and in exc. shape. I have made a few parts and bored the kingpin bushings with this machine. I pd $1450 for it, came with 3 jaw, 4 jaw, faceplace, quick change tool holder, boring bars, knurling tool, dial indicator and other cutting bits, along with 2 following rests for supporting parts. I like having the capability and it opens up design possibilities. Maybe a bridgeport next!!??:rolleyes:
Don, i think the bushings will be fine, i think the key is a tight fit....just like an engine bearing. Once you get a thousandths or so of clearance, the parts can hammer with the slightest movement. Glad to hear bushings are OK..
Jeff
I used the oxy/propane torch to cut the unnecessary mounts off of the front axle, it looks a bit cleaner now, i ground on it with the flapwheel and now it looks really decent..
I chopped the wishbone in the chopsaw to get rid of the remaining forged spud....I will make a new bung and use a heim joint at the end of the wishbone to mount to the frame.....
TIRES!!-i went to the large car show in Mpls ..."Back to the 50's" is the name of it...i think it is the 2nd largest car show in the USA, 11,000 cars over the weekend...I went to the swap meet and bought tires...
3 bias ply White wall on ford hole wheels =$75 for all 3 (with beauty rings)
2 CHEATER slicks on 5 hole Buick rims for $220/pair (guy wanted $250) but he came down a bit due to my persistence...the new slick like this is around $275 from Firestone...I LOVE the oldschool look of these old tires!! I sandblasted some ford steel wheels and swapped them out on the tire machine at work. I repainted all the wheels ACE Regal RED, 2 cans @ $3.99 per can.:3dSMILE:
I bought this Ford 9" rear end from a friend...We spun the axle, it appears to be 3.50:1 gears. It is approx 59" drum face to drum face. it is out of a 1970 Ford Bronco...it is heavy but will work nicely and with the wheels and cheater slicks it leaves about 1" per side to the old Ford box (from sidewall to box). I wanted a nice narrow car, hopefully 1" will be enough clearance...i plan to run a triangulated 4 bar to hold the axle in place.
jeff
I read a bit on the internet about reversing the steering box....here is how i did my 1941 steering box....this box was FREE , it came on the frame section with the front axle i bought.....cowl steering is cool looking, i understand the loading that the box will need to endure and will mount accordingly.
OK, basically the steering input shaft must be installed from the other end of the steering box. I disassembled the steering box, drilled the steering box cap so the shaft could enter the other side. I spun a part in the lathe to retain a new seal and will pound in a frost plug to plug the original shaft hole. This is a simple thing to do....now the box is functioning in reverse operation.
I now need a steering arm that is about 12" from the box, using a pipe to extend the arm outside the cowl. I chopped the spline portion off the steering arm and ground/spun in the lathe to make a press fit into the steering tube. I used a dial indicator to make sure it was straight prior to welding...plug weld and fillet welding.
stock steering shaft enters the box on the right.
modified box shaft enters from the left.
I chopped the spline portion off the steering arm, ground it a bit, made a mandrel (pc of pipe) and slid the spline section onto the pipe so i could turn the diameter on the lathe. I press fit the splined spud into the pipe and welded it. I will need to install a nut on the end of the spline shaft to hold this onto the steering box. The socket will not fit inside this pipe, so i will weld a 1" nut onto the top of the 1 1/4" OEM nut.....i will use the cotter pin to ensure safety....
this is how i got the steering shaft straight...i used the dial indicator and tapped lightly until it was concentric and tack welded it....it is within .005":3dSMILE:
Will your new pitman shaft have support? I considered the same method but decided it was too long to be unsupported so I did this on mine. A bit clunky but funtional and not visible.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...g5-24006-1.jpg
Thanks for the pic of your setup ....i think your design is functional, takes up any misalignment and the farmer style spherical ball flange bearing is the ideal support. I just might change my design to be like yours!!
Yes, i was planning on some sort of outward bearing located right at the body area, but it would need to be a large 2" plastic bearing or other support structure...finding a sealed 2" ID bearing would be spendy....thanks for the picture and help on this!
JEff
I taped off the tires and painted the wheels ACE REGAL red...this is good paint for $3.99/can. It took one can to do both front wheels..i painted front and back sides. I washed the steel wheels with soapy water and then wiped with acetone to make sure they were clean.
The rear wheels are ford 5 1/2" wide OEM steel wheels. These are from a donor truck i bought for the project for the rear end, but the rear end was too wide so i scrapped the truck..(i got it for free on Craigslist)....i kept the wheels. I sandblasted the wheels at work, we have a HUGE sandblaster....I primed and painted the rear wheels before mounting the tires....we also have tire machine at work, so that was a freebie also....:D That might help keep this project under the 3k max target.
Jeff
Again, here are the cheater slicks and the Ford rear wheels, Ace Regal Red.
$3.99/can painted both wheels. I primed these too....I need to add that to the list of expenses...
Free mounting and sandblasting (at work).
I drilled lightening holes in the front axle...just for looks. I think this looks cools so i figured it couldnt hurt....This is a forged axle, so a few small holes in the mid section shouldnt hurt.....I used my drill press and a UNIBIT...i bought this cheap bit at NOrthern Tool and thought it would be good for a couple holes, and it worked GREAT... i used plenty of oil and slow bit speed. I left the wishbones attached and barely fit the axle into the drill press...but it worked out OK.
Jeff
I bought new tie ROD ends....safety first!! this old 1941 front end had decent tie rod ends, but i wasnt willing to take any chances! These tie rod ends are from Speedway motors for $9.99 each. I added antiseize to the threads prior to assembly. I also chopped off an extra mount for the drag link using my chop saw, and ground the end of the steering arm for appearance...I will be using COWL steer or a parallel drag link (parallel to chassis) so i didnt need the extra hole in the steering arm..
I assembled the front end, new kingpin bushings, pins, seals, bearings, grease etc....I bought the chrome steering arm for $7.00 at a Swap meet. It has a $10 tag on it, but the guy let it go for $7 bucks.....:D
Here is the list i have so far..i am missing the shipping from Speedway on some small parts, and didnt include gas when i went to the Swapmeet or when i picked up the radiator (using my motorcycle!)....I think there is chance to make it......Project 3k.....I know that the little stuff adds up quickly!
List as of 7/19/08
50 radiator grill shell E Bay
$110 350 engine/trans (300-190 for scrap) Craigslist want ad
50 2 front tires and wheels Swap meet
100 front axle Craigslist want ad
7 steering arm-chrome Swap meet
-120 Scrap Ford F150-bought for rear end Craigslist want ad
165 airbags Ebay
9 airhorn ebay
50 radiator Craigslist want ad
20 brake master cylinder Craigslist want ad
brake lines
220 Rear -15" cheeter slicks Swap meet
125 front brakes Ford F100 drums, hubs Craigslist want ad
20 heim joints-front wishbones speedway motors
148 Frame steel Winnick Steel
39.99 Kinpgin bushing kit speedway motors
100 Ford 9" rear end Kirk-friend
39.99 bearing kit, F100 to Ford spindle speedway motors
seat
driveshaft
headlights
12.18 Red paint/primer for wheels 2 cans ACE Ace
3 tire patch-removed a plug TMS
20 2 tie rod ends speedway motors
1799.16
I added the cab, box, floor shifter...just over $1800 bucks.
Rat Rod Price List Project 3k
Price Item description From
$630.00 1930s Box and Cab E Bay
$50.00 radiator grill shell E Bay
$110.00 350 engine/trans (300-190 for scrap) Craigslist want ad
$50.00 2 front tires and wheels Swap meet
$100.00 front axle Craigslist want ad
$7.00 steering arm-chrome Swap meet
$(120.00) Scrap Ford F150-bought for rear end Craigslist want ad
$165.00 airbags Ebay
$9.00 airhorn ebay
$50.00 radiator Craigslist want ad
$20.00 brake master cylinder Craigslist want ad
brake lines
$220.00 Rear -15" cheeter slicks Swap meet
$125.00 front brakes Ford F100 drums, hubs Craigslist want ad
$20.00 heim joints-front wishbones speedway motors
$148.00 Frame steel Winnick Steel
$39.99 Kinpgin bushing kit speedway motors
$100.00 Ford 9" rear end Kirk-friend
$39.99 bearing kit, F100 to Ford spindle speedway motors
seat
driveshaft
headlights
tail lights
$12.18 Red paint/primer for wheels 2 cans ACE Ace
$3.00 tire patch-removed a plug TMS
$20.00 2 tie rod ends speedway motors
$7.00 1970 Chevelle Floor shifter and cable Swap meet
$1,806.16
WOW! I don't particularly care about the build cost per se, but the component finds etc. are great. Great reading. Personally, I think a 5" chop a little extreme, but what the heck, it ain't my rat. Keep it up. Perley
It's really looking good and coming along well Jeff. I know what you mean, I have some of the gold drill bit sets Harbor Freight sells, and they last and last. Some of their stuff is crap, but some is a real bargain.
Hope you hit your $3K figure.........I KNEW it could be done. :D :D
Don
I bought this 9" Ford rear end from a friend for $100. The tag on it says
"3 L 50" which means 3.50 ratio and L = locking differential. NICE !!:) It is from a 70 or 71 Ford Bronco.
When I turn the pinion both axles spin in the same direction. That is good, now i wont need to weld the spiders ......i was going to make this a Lincoln Locker"!! (welded by a Lincoln welder for those who havent heard that one):D
The brake parts are really rusty so i sandblasted them at work. The drums were rusty too...i need new wheel cylinders too. I needed to pound the pistons to get them out...they are shot. A friend has a Bronco with the same rear end and is converting to disc, so i am getting all his good brake parts and will choose the best parts for my car. His wheel cylinders are good too....I hope too use them.
I found a radiator on Craigslist, paid too much at $50 but i needed it to continue...i needed to know the size and shape so i could make the frame. The ford F150 Radiator fits perfectly into the Model A grill shell...just trim off the radiator brackets (on the side) a bit and it fits really nice. After mocking things up, i decided to remove the mechanical fan, and will use electric. The mechanical fan will contact the radiator hoses and wont work for my application.
I bought 4 airbags from Ebay. I dont know anything about airbags but i think i can figure it out. 2 Bags are 2500# and 2 are 2600# bags...i think that is max rating at max 500psi pressure...I will be running 100 psi, more if i need to.
Collapsed these bags are 2.75 front bags and 3.0" for the rear. WIth 100psi the bags supposed lift to 9" and 10" respectively. I think that is correct... i will double check prior to making parts to mount them.
The rear bags will lift directly on the rear axle. The front will use a "lever" arm and the bags will be mounted just behind the radiator. This will "hide" the bags inside the frame area, and the lever will allow me to get more lift that the bag would normally allow (mechanical advantage)..... I dont want to need to "top out" the airbag and run at max pressure....i would like to run the bags at around 75% lift for a good ride.
I needed a method to hold the 350 Engine in the exact configuration/placement for the frame build so i built this engine stand. It is on small caster wheels, and is adjustable from oil pan on ground to around 10 inches up...The front has adjustable slider rods that can go up/down, the rear is static at tranny pan 3/4" from the ground, and you merely 'shim' up the back with 2x4s or whatever is handy. I am building a LOW rider, and will have the oil pan 1" off the dirt, and the tranny pan about 3/4" off the dirt when the frame is dropped to the ground. I wanted to go lower with the engine but didnt want to poke a hole in the bottom of the engine or tranny when parking. A sharp rock could cause damage.
I used a level on the carb and made sure the tranny pan was level, i was amazed at how much the engine is tilted downwards in the rear, but the trans pan is level.:cool: Now i can use this engine stand to hold the engine in the correct height and build the frame on the garage floor....this will be handy and make life easy. I can even build the motor mounts while leaving the engine on this stand. The engine is held under the front edge of the oil pan flange, and under the bottom of the tranny pan. see the pics.
I removed around 12" from the box (shortened it)....i had to remove the fender mounting arches first, then the chop began..:LOL: Sawzall, sabre saw, and grinder....then the welder....I want the box to sit on the ground when parked (airbags) and the cab will also be on the ground.....so i will need to "notch" the box to fit over the ford 9" axle.. See the severe notch in the sheetmetal.....i will be building a removeable support strut/bracket to tie the box together underneath the axle, this removeable strap will make it easy to work on if i need to remove the axle or remove the box...**) The last pic is the "parked" height. I will inflate the bags to around a 6" lift for cruising.
The old box had stake pockets that were rotted out due to debris and water sitting in them for 78 yrs....i cut out the bottom panel and made a new one at work (thanks to Jordy at the shop! ...helped with the brake press).. welded in the panel...other pic of cutting driveshaft end in the lathe. I removed the old tube section in preparation for a new shaft.
