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Wow that is shinny Black! After all the time you guys put into this build, have Dan given any thought to naming his RPU, i.e. like "the Black Widow" I think his car deserves a title of it's own, Kind of like 3k but bigger!:D Sort of like Roth use to do!
Thanks Kurt. Yeah Steve, I think a name would be great. Maybe "Possessed" would be fitting after all the goofy things that have happened to it along the way. :D
Don
looks very good .just air out your shop out good that stuff is bad to be breathing i seen guys get sick from it.stuff hangs around for a long time in your body . i have been sick from two part paints it is no fun . the good thing about imron is its somewhat thick stuff not to bad to spray or hard to find at one time it could be mix off a enamel mixing bank. as long is it stays sticky and do not hammer it till you last coat. the ppg durethane is some very bad stuff and over all abit harder to paint for me but a true polyester poly urethane
looking good!!!
You know what they say........ you can sleep when your dead :)
We named my 68 Mustang Damien! It was forever making wierd noises, I finally pulled the engine and tranny and replaced it with a used one, 6 months later it threw a rod on the highway. The idiot light came on with the first clunking noise!:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
As for my truck, it will be the S.S. Persaverance(spelled wrong I know!):D
I had a 71 Dodge pickup that we named rodney, cause it couldn't get any respect! Poor truck was rotted something terrible. At the end the cab settled down so bad you couldn't shift it. 3 on the tree used to jam up at the worst times! Like the bank drive thru!Quote:
Originally Posted by stovens
Don, it's looking good !!!!!!!! Remember your not as young as you feel and can't party all nite........LOL
BradC
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC
Brad, if I were as young as I feel I would be DEAD!! :eek::LOL: Another long night, but we got a lot done. Don came and helped us and we got the engine to basically a long block configuration. One more night should get it pretty much a done motor. More SS bolts coming tomorrow, so we can finish putting the rest of the stuff on.
Here is where we ended up tonight. Now it's shower and bed time..........gotta get my 4 hours sleep before work again tomorrow. :rolleyes:
Don
Looking goooooood!!!
Earl
Love those finned valve covers! Wish they made them for a 460! Don I don't know how you can do these all nighters and then go to work a few hours later. I need at least 8 hours between! Noticed the Volvo penta box, someone work in a ship yard?
Thanks guys. Surprisingly, I felt pretty good this morning.......once I had my coffee and Egg McMuffin. :D We were just talking the other night about how during that 88 day thrash to build Don's T we would work every night til Midnight or maybe even 2 AM, and somehow made it to work, and did the car thing all over again the next night. But I sure hope Dan doesn't get home from work tonight and suggest we put in "an hour or two" on his motor............that always turns into 6 or 8 hours.:rolleyes:
And yes Steve, I work at a marina. In fact, the engine in my T was a marine take out that I rebuilt. Same with the 454 we are saving for Dans future drag car. I grab up all the leftovers I can scrounge. :D
Don
Don
I used to sail old Morgans out of Tortola, BVI. I believe they used volvo 4cyl engines. They were reliable and very popular. I guess marine engines are basically the same except the manifolds and using sea water for cooling?
Yep, the Morgans were sort of built for the charter business, built like tanks and very forgiving.
As for car engines and boat engines being alike, that's correct. Every Mercruiser or Volvo I/O or inboard engine is your basic 350 Chevy or similar motor. Some changes are made to handle salt water, like head gaskets, freeze plugs (brass) etc, and the bolt on stuff like exhaust manifolds, water pumps, alternators, starters, and more are special. The engine suppliers like to tell you that all the internals are heavy duty to handle constant high rpm use, but we have never been able to tell any difference there, all the parts have GM stamped all over them. What is strange is that the $ 40 piston you can buy for your Chevy car costs $ 120 or more for the same boat motor.:(
Don
Don,
Looks really good, you guys must feel much better now going forward.
Just out of curiosity what it cost at your company to do a complete rebuild on one of those? $120 a piston :eek:
Ken
Ken, I close the customers out here, and I see some invoices that would curl your hair! :LOL: We just had a boat that came in via tow with one transmission out. A rebuilt transmission was $ 6800.00 vs a new one at over $ 10,000.00. The tab for labor and all ended up being a little over $ 10K.
The 454 I scored recently was a repower we did for a guy. His tab for replacing one of the two engines (plus some other work like new batteries, etc) ended up about $ 22,000.00. Both customers whipped out their credit cards and got a whole lot of frequent flyer miles. :D
We had one boat in here owned by a pretty famous baseball player/ rock star, and his tab was $ 199,000.00 before the boat left. They were out partying and blew both diesel engines to the tune of $ 100,000.00 for the pair. Then, when they were being towed in a commercial fishing boat ran into them and tore the side out of the boat. :eek: Boat US Insurance took a hit on that one, even replacing the bedding that got wet from the hole in the boat. :D
Come to think of it, cars really aren't such an expensive hobby, are they? :D
Don
Most of the boats we do are in the league that if you GAVE me one I couldn't afford to keep it.
What is it they say (A boat is a hole in the water that you throw money into )
I had a 34' Steel Clipper it cost me $3500 a season for dock space and $3500 to pull it for winter storage. The Marina I docked at wouldn't let me do oil changes on the twin diesels. They charged $1500 for 30 quarts and two filters. I did get by with changing the fuel filters myself.
BradC
Wow, that is just outrageous!! I never had a boat, how can they justify those kind of prices when you can buy a nice crate motor from GM for $3800?
How much is a tune up if a oil change is $1500?
Sorry to be off topic, but this news to me.
Ken
wow it is not to late for me to go back as a rigger / boat service .now i know why my good friend:HMMM:wants only me to work on his boat:( i work at a boat yard .at one time i was doing warranty work on sea rays windshields .i could do 2 or 3 in a day. i was making 5.50 a hour :rolleyes: i found out how many hours sea ray was paying for one windshield .after that i had my boss back up in the corner of his office
I'm with you Ken!;)
It's funny, but I have seen some car part that I am familiar with, repackaged as a marine part, and the price is a couple times higher. Another thing that costs a lot is having a boat pulled from the water for any kind of service. There is a sliding scale depending on the length of the boat, and for example, we charge $9.50 per foot to pull a 40 footer out of the water, which = $ 380.00, and $ 50 to block it up on work stands. In addition, we charge $ 2.00 per foot per day while it is sitting on land, so that is another $ 80.00. Adding that up, if we lift a 40 footer the owner has spent $ 510.00 for the very first day, and that doesn't include our $ 95.00 per hour labor rate.
But the other side of the coin is that one of our travel lifts cost over $ 500,000.00 and the other smaller one cost $ 250,000.00. They also break fairly often and simple repairs on them can run $ 10,000 to $ 15,000.00 pretty fast. Plus, we are right on the water, so property is expensive as are taxes, insurance, and all that stuff. It is also a very tough, strange business to be in, but I have done it for about 20 years now and enjoy it.
Oh, Dan and I got a lot more done tonight on his motor. One more night should have it and the transmission sitting in the frame. :D We got all the valve train in, the intake and carbs installed, and lots of other parts bolted on for the last (hopefully) time. We will probably go straight to bed tomorrow after work because it is almost 3 am and we just got in, but Friday night we should be able to set it in there. Maybe Saturday we can try to fire it up for the first time. :D:D
Here is a picture I took tonight...........starting to look like a real motor, huh?
Don
On the boat thing there's the "ability to pay" quotient as well as somewhat less supply of service providers controlled by the limited availability of waterfront property devoted to repair/storage/maint. I learned about the "ability to pay" thing a few years back when I was in my Porsche period. I was doing a fuel filter change on the Rabbit and when I looked at the Bosch filter it looked familiar. I went over to the 911 looked at that fuel filter, the numbers were the same. Hmmmm. For grins I called the Porsche dealer to price check one from them. Seems that yellow and red box with the Porsche logos almost trippled the price. Expensive cardboard!
BTW Pops, who's job will it be to keep those soft plugs polished?:D
Looks very cool!
Don--I have nothing to add on the subject of expensive boats. However---on a related note---when I was a kid my dad used to build wooden 12 foot fishing boats for the tourists. One of the very first cars I had was the model A in the picture (with me at 17 years old) ----which my dad and I traded a new wooden boat for. We had no electricity back in those days, and the wooden boat had a 1 1/2" brass wood screw every 2 1/2" all around the perimeter holding the 3/8" plywood bottom onto the 1" x 12" pine sides. It was my job to put all those wood screws in by hand.:eek::eek: By the end of the summer I would have a pad of callous on the palm of my right hand so thick I could pound nails with the palm of my hand.
Thanks for the insight, I think I'll stick with cars :3dSMILE: Motor looks pretty cool :cool:
Ken
Don, it's nice to know that you work around boats! When I was young (16 - 19) I worked for a boat yard in Maryland. Sometimes it was a hard way to make a living but it had it's good times as well. I used to scrape bottoms, paint hulls, repair transoms and usually got stuck re-finishing sail boat masts from a swinging bosum's chair 50 feet above a deck. Despite everything, sometimes I think they were some of the best years of my life. It was an experience of a lifetime.
As a result of my working at the boatyard, I also spent a year working as the pilot on a yacht (65 ft custom built Chriscraft) owned by a local DuPont family. They liked me well enough that one Fall they gave me the opportunity of going with the family from their home in Maryland to their home in Florida via the east coast inland passage. What an adventure! :D
Boats are like Ferrari's, if you can't afford to maintain them, you probably shouldn't own one. No one should expect that the maintenance cost of a $400,000 Ferrari to be the same as the upkeep cost of a Chevy.:eek::LOL:
no cash ...no splash ...
Bob, you're right about the same parts costing more for the luxury cars vs the lesser versions. When I worked at the body shop if we bought a part for a Toyota it was one price, but sometimes there was an identical part for a Lexus and it was a lot more. Oh, the American way! :LOL:
Brian, when I was a kid we had a 12 foot Murray wooden boat with a 7.5 hp Sears outboard on it. Used to go to Conneaut Lake in Pennsylvania with it and we would drool that all the rich people who lived on the lake had those neat old wooden Chris Craft speedboats. I always thought it was so cool to see them come roaring into the dock at full speed and then pull that big old chrome shifter into reverse and stop on a dime. Wooden boats had a certain charm that glass ones can't quite capture.
Thanks Ken. The funny thing about boats is that no matter what you have, there is ALWAYS someone with a bigger, more expensive one. We just took in a 63 Viking sport fish that has everyone at our marina with their tongues hanging out.......it is magnificent, worth about 2.7 million. It even has cameras on the outriggers so you can watch what your trolled baits are doing! :eek: But tonight I was watching a show on the History Channel about Mega yachts. These are the ones in the 200 foot range and cost upwards of $ 50 Million..........so it is all very relative. I guess you just have to be happy with where you are in life, otherwise it will drive you nuts.
Bob, that part of your life sounds like it was something to remember forever. A lot of people in the boating business hate boats because we do see a lot of unhappy times, especially when we have to inform someone they are going to have to shell out some money for an unexpected repair. But I still like them and am tempted pretty often to buy another one. My family grew up boating and I never had to worry about my kids getting into drugs or any problems because I knew they were only 18 feet away from me at any given time. :D I'll own another one someday, but will probably downsize next time.
BTW, Dan posted some better pictures of his motor on the HAMB than I had, so I thought I'd put them up here.
Don
Looks great, Don! The Imron you used on the chassis; is that a chassis paint that they make or is their standard paint tough enough for frame use?
Thanks, no the chassis is powder coated black. The Imron is on the motor and transmission only. But Imron is pretty tough, and probably great for frames and stuff too. In fact, I plan on shooting the frame and parts of my 29 RPU with it now that I saw how nice it laid onto Dans parts.
Don
It sure looks pretty on the pictures. I have to re paint my frame after a change in the steering setup; I might give it a try. The stuff I used looked good but it seems to chip easy.
I've had good luck in the past with catalyzed paint, like Dupont Centari with hardner in it. I did my 27 frame about 20 years ago and have dropped stuff on it and drove it almost daily, and the paint could still be used (if I wasn't sick of looking at the Purple paint :LOL:) From all that I have heard about Imron in the past I think it is probably just as tough, if not more. When we scuffed the paint on the engine the other night in spots where we wanted gaskets to adhere, it was VERY hard to sand, so it seems like one tough critter.
Don
Don how's that paint hold up to heat on the tranny and engine? It looks so nice I was thinking of maybe shooting my rear axle, and drums, but sure about the temperature issues?Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
Steve, it's not an issue at all. I painted the 302 in my 27 the same way all those many years ago, and it didn't look all that bad when I tore it down a while ago. My 23 was painted with it and it has been on the road now for a year and a half and looks just like the day I sprayed it. The secret is the epoxy primer you use first, it lets it stick to the cast iron block and maybe do some heat shielding too. But I think the heat shielding would not really be needed anyway.
And it sure looks a lot better than the rattle can jobs and holds up a lot longer. :)
Don
Don wrote:Dupont Imron is what we used to paint cabover Freightliner bodies back in the mid 70's. It stood up real well to road gravel and stones.:D The toxicity of Imron is probably one reason painters have to wear space suits today when they paint. We wore a dust mask, long sleeve shirts and jeans.:eek:Quote:
From all that I have heard about Imron in the past I think it is probably just as tough, if not more.
I wore shorts and sunglasses........does that count? :eek::)
Don
i srayed 5 gallons of imron on a big 80 ton crane . that the most i never used at one time.i sprayed the big mack trucks with the stuff. the good thing about imron was at one time it just hop up centari could be mix off a centari mixing bank .we use to use the imron harder in centari .the ppg durethane is what i sprayed on air planes is it is bad stuff . it is a true polyester polyurethane bad bad stuff . posted bit on page 3 post line523 . when the stuff setup in the mixing jug a week later you could make a super ball with it .it would not bust apart
Back in my body shop days, another painter and I sprayed 5 gallons of John Deere green Imron on a huge bush hog for the local forestry service. We sprayed non-stop almost all day.:HMMM: Couldn't hardly run the stuff if you tried; very forgiving paint and easy to mix & spray... My only other experience with the stuff was a dark blue metallic van that had previously been painted with it. It got a ding in one front corner and I had to repair it and spot in the paint. Yeah, right!:mad: Imron does not spot & blend well and as for buffing.., I think concrete would probably buff easier.:rolleyes: It IS some durable stuff, though. Our local DuPont dealer doesn't carry the stuff any more and I thought it had been discontinued.
I also sprayed some Ditzler Durethane several years ago; it was great stuff for hotrod frames, boats, boat trailers, and stock cars. By the time you were finished spraying the average frame or trailer, it was difficult to walk around in the booth because your shoes would stick to the floor. It was some really tough, chip resistant stuff. You could paint a panel with it, let it dry overnight, and then beat the panel to a pulp and the paint would not chip!:eek: We painted a stock car with it once and tire marks would just wipe off with mineral spirits!:eek: Unfortunately, the stuff was expensive and deadly hazardous to your health. I don't think it's available any more, at least not here in Florida...:confused:
Unfortunately, the stuff was expensive and deadly hazardous to your health. I don't think it's available any more, at least not here in Florida...:confused:[/QUOTE]
the durethane is hard to get but still can be found. i would wet the floor and paint air plane parts. by the end of painting i was a 1/2 taller. it would lay on the water leave a flim and stick down on the bottom of my shoes . i would get home feel very sticky .i would have to scrape it off eye lashes with my finger nails or they would stick together .that was the only paint that could flex with the skin of the plane. there was a time when evey one had something like imron that was a hop up enamel acme had acme 1000 and ppg had star thane . i like to shoot that stuff .but durethane was the real deal abit tricky to spray if every thing was rigth it lay dead flat
I painted the chassis and a lot of the small parts with black Imron on a car I built about 1988 using a good carbon filter but still ended up breathing some fumes. I then had to take an international business trip the next day and could hardly breathe after the plane reached altitude - they try to maintain pressure based on 6-8000 feet and I almost had to ask for an oxygen mask. The paint job - absolutely beautiful with no dirt and not a run. Me - well it never helped my appearance, but it sure was a lesson in painting with nasties:HMMM::D
I thought it was strange on that one episode of Drag Race High where they showed them painting the Chevelle in the booth. The pros who were painting the car had on respirators and the kids who were in the booth standing around watching had on those little paper dust masks. :eek: I guess they figure kids are young and tough. :rolleyes:
Boy am I gonna have some pictures when we get home tonight! We pulled another all nighter, and the engine/transmission are bolted into the frame! :D Today we are going to continue putting stuff on it and plan to roll it into the sunshine for some shots. This is the furthest along the car has been in four years and it is feeling pretty good. :)
Don
Go Don Go-----------