Better kit / Company for the beginning builder???

[Justinian]

I'm new to this site and want to get some feedback on what car kit would suit a novice builder.

I haven't had many performance cars, and have little to no background building a car...

My first car I ever drove was a 69 Firebird that had a 350 Chevy motor in it that was taken out of a 72 Caprice. It had a 2 barrel carb and single exaust. My Father and I replaced the 2 barrel carb and manifold with an Edelbrock 4 barrel carb and manifold, and took it to a local mechanic to beef up the suspension with all new swaybars, bushings, etc. Other additions included a set of Cragar SS wheels on Brigstone radials, a rear spoiler, headers and dual exhaust, etc. It was a fun car, but the body had some small rust areas and it needed to be completely rewired. After my high school days it sat in the garage for several years and I decided to sell it to a relative since it wasn't being used..

Now that I'm over 30, I'd like to start saving up and get back into the hobby. However, I don't want to get into something where the level of fabrication work would overwhelm me..

So I think I've settled on buiding a 23T. I like those because there's not too much to them, and minimal bodywork is needed compared to say, a 60's musclecar...I'm thinking about a turtle decked, track roadster style of car with a rollbar behind the body (not in it, since they're short on room anyways..)...I just get a little nervous thinking about what could happen if somehow you get flipped on your lid (of course, getting hit in the side probably wouldn't be a day in the park with that ride either.. ).

I'm leaning towards a Total Performance ride since their kit seems to have detailed instuctions and you can get a lot of the pieces predrilled and such. But after reading some of these posts regarding some of their customer service and parts fit, I'm not so sure now...

The other builder that hits me is CCR. I'm 5"11 and like the streched body idea a lot.. The interior kit looks a bit simpler to implement as well. But I'm not sure if they have good instructions with it for a noivce builder like myself or if they can predrill parts, etc...


I have a new engine sourced out..., I'll have to assemble it..my first engine build (a 400CI Mouse motor with a lot of neat stuff... ) That should be interesting in itself

It seems like there's a catch 22 in the hobby...at least for me... you can get a 60's or 70's musclecar, 50's truck, etc. that already runs and tinker with it, but in order to avoid a lot of fabircation that a novice may not be very skilled at, it seems you pay nearly as much as building a Bucket T kit or other low buck street rod from the ground up that wouldn't require as much body work, etc. But without detailed instructions, how is a novice going to build a ground up rod from scratch??? LOL... It's enough to to make your head spin....


Any Thoughts???

[techinspector1]

Welcome to the forum Justin. There is a lot of knowledge about all areas of car building and maintaining on here and nobody will berate you for not knowing anything about anything. We don't do that here, so you can ask any question you want without being chastised for not knowing.

There, now that's out of the way. In my opinion, you're thinking in the right direction with a simple first build. The Model T will be one of the simplest to do and there are several companies who make kits. If I were doing this, I too would be thinking stretched body. I've seen too many guys with their knees jammed up into their chin to think about using a standard body. I'll give you a link to the National T-Bucket Alliance tech pages so you can begin researching your project.......
http://www.nationaltbucketalliance.c.../techindex.asp

[Dave Severson]

Welcome to CHR Justin. The Total Performance kit is a good one, but there are many of them the same. Do some shopping.

As Tech suggested, I would really consider the longer body version of the T. Or maybe even spend a few more $$$$ and move up to a '27- '29 roadster where room is not as much of an issue. One note of caution on a T, though they are the cheapest too build, they are also low on the resale end when you are ready for a different (spelled More Room inside) car.... Speedway Motors, for example, sells a couple of different '27 roadster kits that are very complete and even come with an assembly manual....

This is just a note from the "been there, done that" crowd, (aka geezer's) but always consider the reasale end of a project before you jump in. No matter what it is you build, you're always going to be ready to move up or in a different direction on cars once the first one is done!!!!

[brianrupnow]

Justin---I agree with your concept of building something simple and relatively "lo-buck" for your first car---but----as Dave Severson points out, T-Buckets are low on resale value, and they are not a really comfortable car to drive in. Even the 26-27 t's are seriously short on leg room. I would recomend that you give serious consideration to building a Model A Ford. They come in all the basic body styles, have a simple ladder style frame, and are a very comfortable car to drive, as long as you don't get crazy and chop or channel them radically. Their chassis is pretty well identical to a T-bucket, with an I-beam style front axle, rear-end of your choice, and they will readily accept a small block Chev engine if you recess the firewall 4", and you can still run the stock wheel base.

[MARTINSR]

One more bit of advice, loose the "kit" reference. There are a lot of guys who take that personally. Most rods you see, be it a T or what ever, are BUILT by a guy and not simply a bolted together "model kit". They are full of their own ideas and parts gathered from many sources over many years in most cases.

Many "Kits" are available and that would be a great start for you, but the term "Kit" really rubs a lot of guys the wrong way. As you will probably find out, when you start working on something like this you WILL get more creative and skilled as you are going and even your first "kit" rod will likely grow into a car that is much more a brain child of YOURS and not a "kit" at all.

Brian

[Itoldyouso]

Welcome to the forum, and to hot rodding. Breakout your credit card and lots of band aids.

All of the things the guys said above are very true. I don't know anything about the CCR kits, but I do know quite a bit about Total Performance. I have been dealing with them for probably 25 years, and like Mickey and his company a lot. That being said, they are not perfect. Shipping can be slow sometimes, especially on bigger items (my Son waited 2 months or more for his chopped '32 grille shell/radiator setup.) but it is certainly not horrible by any means.

Here is my take on TP. They have recognized a niche' in the marketplace, and have addressed that need very well for many many years. He knows what works and what doesn't, and has built a very large business around one very small segment of the hobby........ie, T Buckets. That says something very important, he must be doing something right.

What he has done is put together a "kit" (and yes, we do hate that word sometimes) that virtually any person with very limited tools and skills can put together in their home garage. You can buy the car in almost any stage of completion, so that you essentially bolt it together, no welding or fabricating necessary. That is a big selling point, and has enabled hundreds of rodders, who might never have been able to build one themselves, to enjoy the hobby.

We have a TP kit sitting on our shop floor, and as soon as my Son gets his move completed (yeah, the whole family moved at the same time ) he is going to get back on it. My other Son and I put it together as a Xmas gift for him, and we were super surprised how easily the darned thing went together. Every part just sort of bolts into place. We built a new frame for it, simply because we could, and we like to build them, but the TP frame is really fine. We had it sitting up on wheels in about 4 days, which is really amazing to us, as we always take much longer than that.

Resale value is something that the guys mentioned, and they are right. You will never recoup the money you put into one. The pile of parts you see in the picture below is $ 10,000.00, and that doesn't include the initial cost of body, frame, and front and rear suspension. He still has much money to spend on things like paint, hoses, lines, steering wheel, etc. At the end, he will probably have close to $ 20 K in it, and if he sells will probably get $ 8- $10 if lucky. However, we never build a car with resale in mind as we never sell them, so that doesn't matter for us.

Bottom line, if you want a fun car to have a blast in, a T bucket is a great entry level car. It can also be beyond entry level. I would recommend one to anyone in your situation, because of the ease of actually getting a running, driving car under you without the usual hassles involved. JMO.

Here are some pictures of the one we have.

Don

[Bob Parmenter]

Just to add some more thought provokers to the mix......

You should choose the style of car you genuinely like rather than rationalizing yourself into a style because it's what you think you can afford to the exclusion of other choices. When you mention Track T you're ringing my bell, but as the others (with the exception of Martinsr, who I'm not as familiar with, the other guys have all had T's) have said, they're smallish and best suited for limited, local useage. If that suits, fine. If not, you should broaden your horizons.

What Don says puts a fine point on it, especially the dollars involved. You'll spend the same $ for engine, drive train, wheels, tires, wiring, batt, and all those little necessities, so the difference really comes down to essentially the body and frame being the only place to "save" money.

I'm a little short on time this morning, so basically, for someone with self admitted limited skills (and probably tools) you may be better off buying a very good used rod. (Be careful in today's environ, rat rods are a fad and as such tend to be overpriced for the componentry that's there). If you work within the numbers Don mentioned, for $20k you could get, for instance, a nice Model A rod, or a very nice '46-8 fat fender Ford. (Unless you absolutely have to have a T). That way you can have a car to enjoy, and you can get your learning curve by upgrading to your tastes/needs.

If you're set on the idea of a track T, some left coast alternatives are Superior in Portland; http://www.superiorglassworks.com/ca....php?pageid=25 And Poliform in Ca; http://www.poli-form.com/Gallery/27road.html