Thread: Mustang II

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Well, you have to love them for all the parts they have given to hot rod projects over the decades.

On what planet does anyone think the Mustang 2 was a "Muscle car"???

Mustang II a "muscle car"? In somebodies dreams, ALL Mustangs are "pony cars" period. I hate jerks who try to rewrite history.

Originally Posted by 34_40

On what planet does anyone think the Mustang 2 was a "Muscle car"???

The first book says style, power and performance. Well, they do say don't believe everything you read.

The other one has MotorWeek's John Davis, this seems more of an auto industry critique than an assertion the Mustang II was a muscle car, which it wasn't, obviously.

“……On what planet does anyone think the Mustang 2 was a "Muscle car"???


“……Mustang II a "muscle car"? In somebodies dreams, ALL Mustangs are "pony cars" period. I hate jerks who try to rewrite history……”


They aren’t….. never were, never will be. I started out writing another long winded post but hell I’ve written it all before.

The real Muscle Car vehicles and era (roughly 64-72 give or take) was neat. The 70 and 80s sucked and was the era of “performance vehicles ” living off past glory with a decal package. Volare and Cordoba based Road Runners, Fords Mustang IIs, and GM slapping SS stickers on anything Chevrolet and the 307 powered Olds 442.

I’m just glad I outlived a 55 MPH national speed limit and low compression engines.



.

Amen to that Mike P.!! 8-)

Well said.

Originally Posted by NTFDAY

Mustang II a "muscle car"? In somebodies dreams, ALL Mustangs are "pony cars" period. I hate jerks who try to rewrite history.

Ken you are correct in my history line, they where pony cars. However along with the late 60's and early 70's Nova's that I couldn't stand 25 years ago I have "turned a new leaf" and like seeing these now, as they are a little more uncommon than a 69 camaro (nothing against them) but I see them and get a grin....
On a little different note, on new performance vs muscle car, Love them or hate them if you have not rode in a new V8 mustang, camaro or hemi powered challenger/charger hold on, these things blow the pants off the old factory muscle cars, whether we like it or not. Though I prefer old cars the new performance is unbelievable, I saw a post on Facebook of somebody questioning a procharged LS or Coyote motors power potential as not being what they claim, then that person had not been to a drag strip or no-prep style race lately, its dominated by them and with mph and times we could have only dreamed of. Give me a old car with a "soul" I call it but don't under estimate these new ones as not having performance (but lacking a soul) they do have the performance down.

Originally Posted by Matthyj

Give me a old car with a "soul" I call it but don't under estimate these new ones as not having performance (but lacking a soul) they do have the performance down.

Yeah, I totally agree with this, but that is where hot rodders like us have an advantage. We can take the new power plants and transplant them into the old cars. Win, win.

Hemmings did a nice piece on a very sharp looking 1973 Mustang 351-4V hardtop. A nice looking car, but with low 16s and 0-60 mph in 9 seconds, it was not 1968-72 quick.

Clean Mustang 351-4V

I wouldn't modify a well preserved car like this, just enjoy it as the original owner has done all these years, and accept it as the 1973 car that it is. I would NOT put a Coyote under the hood or Wilwood brakes on it.

Marc Cranswick never called the Firebird & Trans Am muscle cars, he called them sport compacts, because that was what they were called back in the day when GTOs were the muscle car.

I think one of the things that happened with the smog era “performance cars” was that due to a lack of real performance they were pretty much despised by the car community and considered a bad joke. I also believe that contributed to the low survival rate on these cars once they were worn out.

I’ve personally always considered a body not much more than a wrapper for a drive train, so basically whatever body style struck my fancy was what I built. Ken kind of hit it with his comments on the late 60s-early 70s Nova. Some of these cars would still make neat builds if you come across one on decent shape.

Most of the old timers here know I have a soft spot for the Mustang IIs…..but definitely not in stock form. I did the 77 Cobra II several years ago and I (well the wife) still has the 351 powered 77 Coupe.

A couple of other cars I kicked around as potential projects were;

a 74 GTO ….yup Pontiac actually slapped GTO stickers and a Firebird shaker on a 350 powered Ventura. I actually had a line on a couple of Ventura bodies and a Pontiac stick setup at one point. I kicked around doing a clone but stuffing a 455 and 4 Speed in it. Too many other projects at the time made me decide to take a pass. On a side note, the decal set is still available


74 GTO by M Patterson, on Flickr



I also kicked around doing a mid 70s Pontiac Sunbird (Vega clone). At the time I was just thinking about a SBC and 4 speed…..these days I’d probably look more to an LS and 5 speed.

76 sun bird by M Patterson, on Flickr



.

I kinda liked the early iron bumper Vega's and the Monza 2+2's, but if I had owned one, it would have gotten a V8. The Monza'a could be had with V8's front the factory, but were kinda rare around here and most only got 262 small blocks, which were really crappy motors. Even crappier than the other crappy motors back then, but I do remember when these cars were new.

Either of those cars would be a great candidate for an LS swap and subframe connectors (BIG subframe connectors)! A cage would probably be better or eventually you probably wouldn't be able to close the doors! Can you say "chassis flex"?

Also, one other thought about modern muscle cars. Most of them are heavy pigs compared to their older namesake counter parts. A new Charger/Challenger will go well over 4000 lbs. The Mustangs and Camaro's are similar. Their engines in the earlier cars have a big advantage in performance if you can get them to hook up. Of course, you loose the safety, luxury, and handling of the new cars.

I had a V8 Monza 4 speed

http://www.clubhotrod.com/member.php?u=17169


And a Pinto----------

Pinto did higher wheelstands than Monza----you can see Monza on page 4 of my gallery

and pinto on page 7-

Both of them were pretty fast back in there day

Through the '70s I bought what I wanted, and using trade discount fixed up a car if it was out of warranty, and then law permitting, modified. Lots of people were selective in what they bought, oftentimes switching to Japanese brands just to get something that worked, because they didn't know how to fix a car, and many dealers just didn't want to know once you had bought the car.

I found if you dumped the pollution controls on a Formula 400 you could cut the E.T. by 2 seconds. In the malaise era you had to "make yer own", you couldn't buy performance off of the factory floor like the late '60s. In that respect a stock Cobra II 302 was just as lame ass as a same year Camaro Z/28 350, or anything else. Enriching the fuel mixture and adjusting the timing could easily drop a second in the 1/4 mile.

“…..Couldn't help myself... This one is one I wanted for a long time also.
These were very cool when they came out. Like Jay, pull the 260, and fix up a 289, stick, and a way you go. Very cool...”


You just had to show that one Denny

One of the 2 cars I’ve had over the years that I wish I’d never gotten rid of.

Mine was actually the 63 Futura which was the same as the Sprint with the red bucket seat interior and factory consul but came with an anemic 6cy and 2 speed ford-o-matic.

I picked it up in Massachusetts when I was stationed at Ft Devens. Drove it back to St Louis and stored it before I headed to Korea in 73. This is me and the car just before I left.


63 Futura by M Patterson, on Flickr



When I got back to the states a friend and I swapped in a 289, 4 speed and 8” rear end out of a wrecked Mustang (the first gen Mustang was based on the Falcon so everything was bolt in. Of course we went the thru the motor before we stuffed it in.

In 77 when I got orders for Germany it was just starting to show a little rust, so it got sold off (along with my V8 Pinto). I built another Pinto when I got back but still kick myself for getting rid of the Falcon.


,

Originally Posted by Mike P

I think one of the things that happened with the smog era “performance cars” was that due to a lack of real performance they were pretty much despised by the car community and considered a bad joke. I also believe that contributed to the low survival rate on these cars once they were worn out.

I’ve personally always considered a body not much more than a wrapper for a drive train, so basically whatever body style struck my fancy was what I built. Ken kind of hit it with his comments on the late 60s-early 70s Nova. Some of these cars would still make neat builds if you come across one on decent shape.

Most of the old timers here know I have a soft spot for the Mustang IIs…..but definitely not in stock form. I did the 77 Cobra II several years ago and I (well the wife) still has the 351 powered 77 Coupe.

A couple of other cars I kicked around as potential projects were;

a 74 GTO ….yup Pontiac actually slapped GTO stickers and a Firebird shaker on a 350 powered Ventura. I actually had a line on a couple of Ventura bodies and a Pontiac stick setup at one point. I kicked around doing a clone but stuffing a 455 and 4 Speed in it. Too many other projects at the time made me decide to take a pass. On a side note, the decal set is still available


74 GTO by M Patterson, on Flickr



I also kicked around doing a mid 70s Pontiac Sunbird (Vega clone). At the time I was just thinking about a SBC and 4 speed…..these days I’d probably look more to an LS and 5 speed.

76 sun bird by M Patterson, on Flickr



.

It's funny you should mention the idea of a Sunbird with the LS swap. In 1975 Motor Trend was testing a Monza V8 Town Coupe, their Car of the Year, and they speculated how much better it would be with an aluminum V8. They said the engineers did a great job disguising the weight of the SBC, but would it be great to have V8 power without the weight. They even said with an aluminum V8 you wouldn't need power steering in the Monza, more weight saving.