What the heck!

[36 sedan]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I've noticed a larger amount of hostility lately? Seems people come on and post questions that they really don't want answers to, then get upset.
I visit a few other forums and have seen the same poster's posting the same questions, getting the same or very similar answers, yet not getting upset there? So, what are we doing wrong?

[shine]

welcome to my world. i see the same guys asking the same questions on 4 or 5 paint sites. they keep looking for someone to give them the answer they want. i've become less interested in helping . i love the whole 100 dollar paint kit thing. because i know better than to use that junk i'm not suppose to have an opinion. i dont have to get bit by a rattler to know better than to pick it up .

[36 sedan]

Case in point is the guy with the scored cylinder and intake manifold that wouldn't fit.
Intake Manifold Hitting ? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board

Reading the thread reveals a lot of the questions we asked him early on, and now the problems he is having by continuing without addressing them to start with. But, why are we the bad guys? Are we phrasing it wrong? Or am I just getting to old?

Sometimes it is not what we want to hear, but re-inventing the wheel seldom reveals better results...

[mprevo]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I've noticed a larger amount of hostility lately? Seems people come on and post questions that they really don't want answers to, then get upset.
I visit a few other forums and have seen the same poster's posting the same questions, getting the same or very similar answers, yet not getting upset there? So, what are we doing wrong?

Hope you don't think I was getting hostile or upset (well maybe upset at myself for not doing enough homework the first time ). Sometimes I'm a little slow at accepting something as not perfect that I thought I was doing right. Anyways I do appreciate the time you folks put in helping others for no reward.

[stovens]

Seems like society is this way, from hiway road rage to clients in the hospital, it seems everyone is in a hurry, and quick to get pissed off when there is no reason. I had a guy come unglued in the hospital for nobody answering his call light in a minute because he wanted new sheets on his wife's bed, while other patients were getting meds for pain. I explained I'd be back as soon as I took care of the patient I was giving medicine to, and he kept arguing for 5 more minutes, but saying I understand, but every time I started heading for the door would stop me with another complaint(this was 5 minutes after spending 15 minutes in their room, getting them everything they wanted and needed, before going on to my next patient).
I think part of the problem is too many were spared the rod as children, and now they have no idea of how bad they are behaving because their parents never taught them dicipline and manners in the first place.

[NTFDAY]

This site is nowhere as PC correct as the one you mentioned. They get their panties in a wad if you post in the wrong forum and quickly point out to you the error of your ways. It's also full of a bunch of snobby snide SOB's that evidently have done everything and know everything. They lost one of the best members they had due to his take no prisoners approach which the management had major problems with and they have more moderators than a kindergarten class. And more whiners that I've seen since I joined the Marine Corps Reserve in 73 and it was full of creeps who had joined to avoid service in Vietnam and they had to stay for their full tour even though Vietnam was over. I could go on, but I'll end this rant and get back to doing something constructive.

[Whiplash23T]

The sad thing is Steve that we all now live in a "politically correct world" where taking the rod to ones childs' bottom, whether it is a flat hand, a piece of rolled up newspaper, will have you up on charges of cruelty to a minor. Now the issue is the young people know this and use it against their parents so result is we now have people like you have to deal with ever so politely with as it is your job on the line.
I don't post much here but this site is home to me and I read all the posts daily, I do find it frustrating when some of our more knowledgeable members ask for more detail and then give excellent advice to help some one and they don't appear to want to follow up with more information that could help steer them in the right direction.

[Bob Parmenter]

You can lead a horse to water.............but you can't make him think..........

[36 sedan]

Rhetorical;
I was hoping someone would see it and understand why they go to other forums for their answers.
We are what's wrong, we are the reason. Look at any of the current posts to see it.
We have stopped helping and become wrongsayers and lecturers. We have become the father that can not teach without belittling and proving others wrong. We no longer appreciate what others have to say, instead we lecture on how wrong they are. We no longer lead with wisdom, we expect others to follow just because.
We have become old and if we do not change our current path of thinking we will soon become extinct, the same as many generations before us have.
In short, we need to once again lead, not condemn. We need to help solve problems, not tear them apart. We need to stop arguing amongst ourselves. We need to once again remember, it's not what we say, but how we say it. It's time to look in the mirror.
In other words, just be kind, it's so easy.
I'm reluctant to post this, as some may read it the wrong way. Not meant to be disrespectful...

[mprevo]

Rhetorical;
I was hoping someone would see it and understand why they go to other forums for their answers.
We are what's wrong, we are the reason. Look at any of the current posts to see it.
We have stopped helping and become wrongsayers and lecturers. We have become the father that can not teach without belittling and proving others wrong. We no longer appreciate what others have to say, instead we lecture on how wrong they are. We no longer lead with wisdom, we expect others to follow just because.
We have become old and if we do not change our current path of thinking we will soon become extinct, the same as many generations before us have.
In short, we need to once again lead, not condemn. We need to help solve problems, not tear them apart. We need to stop arguing amongst ourselves. We need to once again remember, it's not what we say, but how we say it. It's time to look in the mirror.
In other words, just be kind, it's so easy.
I'm reluctant to post this, as some may read it the wrong way. Not meant to be disrespectful...

Here are my thoughts from a Newbies point of view (no ill thoughts or disrespect intended). You asked the question so I thought I would let you know what is going through the mind of a new poster (someone who was very excited at first to join the group and participate in the discussions with the goal of hopefully expanding my knowledge of Hot Rodding).

Here is a little information about me. I am 45 years old and fairly new to HotRod Community. I have always enjoyed cars my whole life. The first car I built was a 1966 Mustang Coupe that I build when I was in college. I kept that car for many years but ended up having to sell it for my family. Even though I sold the car I always missed having something to work on. Now that I am older and at a point in my life that a car project is more feasible, I was finally able to get back into it. My next project (started last year) was a 1985 CJ7 that I did a frame off restoration on. Once that project was complete I figured out that it wasn’t really the type of project that I wanted to keep so I sold it for my current project which is my 1937 Plymouth Coupe. I am a very hands on type of person and I have basic knowledge (not extensive at all) of cars and engines. When I don’t know how to do something I normally either ask one of my Friends (who have a very good knowledge of cars), buy a book and read up, or I turn to the internet (YouTube, Forums, etc). OK enough about me and here are my thoughts.

When I joined Club HotRod I really didn’t know what to expect. My plan was to share my experience of building the 37 Coupe through a build log and pictures. I assumed that there would be some people on here that might even have built a similar HotRod and I would be able to get help in finding parts and ideas. Believe me this project is bigger than anything I have even attempted before and I have a lot of questions on how things are built or done. For most items I have a basic premise of what needs to happen but I don’t necessary have the knowledge to do it yet (but I will learn and I will figure it out).

My first post was in the Newbie section to introduce myself (because that is what you are supposed to do and I wanted to follow the proper etiquette). I then moved directly to my Build Log. Once I got to the point in my build log about my engine it became evident very quickly that this is a very popular subject here. I quickly received a lot of advice and directions from people some of which was over my head. I am not complaining or faulting anyone but please look at this from my point of view.

I have only been here a very short time. I have never met any of you. I have never really spoken to any of you. I don’t know anything about anyone on this forum. I don’t know if you are truly an expert in your field or just a blow hard. I don’t know the amount of experience you have. I don’t know really anything about you or your knowledge. I am a Newbie remember.

I do know that what I have completed to date (on my engine) is not what you would do. I have been told this in many different ways (some very nice, some harder to swallow). I have even been told that the other people I trust (who I know very well and I know the level or their knowledge and their capabilities) are wrong. I have been told my thoughts are silly. I have basically been told that my engine (which is 90% complete) is a very bad set up and won’t work for what I need. Please don’t get me wrong I am not complaining about the help you are trying to give me and you very well may be correct. Although remember I don’t know anything about you or your talents and have I have just called out in a public forum on my lack of knowledge by a complete stranger to me.

Next thing that goes through my mind is do I want to continue here with my build log. I wonder if I am good enough/knowledgeable enough at Hotrods to post here. Maybe I am over my head with you folks. Will my lack of knowledge be embarrassing again?

Anyways just the thoughts here of a Newbie wanting to join the club.

[Bob Parmenter]

I have only been here a very short time. I have never met any of you. I have never really spoken to any of you. I don’t know anything about anyone on this forum. I don’t know if you are truly an expert in your field or just a blow hard. I don’t know the amount of experience you have. I don’t know really anything about you or your knowledge. I am a Newbie remember.

I have selected the above paragraph from your entire post for a specific reason, that being that it may be the singular most important comment. Which is not to demean any of the rest of your post.....it's a gem in it's entirety. For the existing members, regardless of their length of tenure, there's a valuable lesson or two in there. We are not a known entity to a newb and must earn our stripes regardless of what we or others know of us from our past here. That being said, the newb has to demonstrate a willingness to learn from the advice they claim they seek. As you can tell from the bulk of the commentary above, that's seemingly not the norm. Personally, I'm sanguine with that as it's human nature as I've come to know it in my near 70 years.

If I were to play Uncle to you my advice would be that you're experiencing life here just as you do in the face to face world. You're always going to encounter people who don't agree with you, what you've come to believe, and what you have heard from those you trust and know better. That doesn't mean their opinion is invalid, but it does put the onus on you to establish context if you want to continue to participate (which I would add here I would encourage you to do as you show promise as a valued contributor..........I mean that, it's not just gratuitous.....I don't do insipid flattery well). Some of the folks who have "come on strong" on your build log are folks I've known and respect for a good number of years. Only the moderator Bill has been an active poster on this forum longer than me as we both signed on the first week Brent started it. That gives me no special privilege, just a statement to stipulate that I've seen a lot come and go here, for what that's worth. Of those others who've expressed their opinion, perhaps stronger than you feel comfortable with, I disagree on some aspects of build choices, while agreeing on others. That doesn't affect our friendship on this forum as I've come to know where they fall, usually, on either side of any given line. It's what we all do with folks in our lives, we make allowances if there's enough else of value in the relationship.

So........please, if you wish, give it a bit more time, learn who's who in our zoo, figure out who you can communicate with, and who you can't, or can less so. You've probably got enough life experience to recognize that you'll very likely run into the same experience elsewhere. Your signature line reflects on your ability to gain wisdom...........and a positive reflection on your sense of humor. We can always benefit from that.

EDIT: I see you added a post as I was uploading my commentary...............never mind.

[shine]

if i have a question on engines i ask. then i listen . i do not argue with those trying to help me. that is the problem. when someone asks how to make 500 hp with a cam swap we should just ignore them i guess.

[36 sedan]

Sorry, ignoring is as bad as arguing. People ask questions to learn, while often the answer is not what they want to hear and often it has been already covered. We have a group of very intelligent people, with great knowledge, but we've gotten tired of answering the questions, maybe we need a technical section where it can be posted an refered to when needed. But we don't need to be cranky and fighting amongst ourselves...

[techinspector1]

Sorry, ignoring is as bad as arguing. People ask questions to learn, while often the answer is not what they want to hear and often it has been already covered. We have a group of very intelligent people, with great knowledge, but we've gotten tired of answering the questions, maybe we need a technical section where it can be posted an refered to when needed. But we don't need to be cranky and fighting amongst ourselves...

I tried to get Brent to start a technical library years ago, but my request fell on deaf ears. You'll see me frequently leading those who come here to ask questions to the Crankshaft Coalition Wiki on Hotrodders, because I and many others have spent many, many hours writing articles over there.

I think perhaps you are right about being a little short with posters, but when someone asks what color it is and you tell him it's blue because you've done it a thousand times and then he says, well I think it's red, you naturally become a little disgusted and get short with the dude. If these fellows would just come on here and ask how to build a motor, BEFORE THEY EVER BUY ONE PART, life would be simpler for all of us.


.

[35WINDOW]

I would tend to agree that things have gotten more argumentative, or, it seems that there are others who think themselves as always "right"-

I joined these sites to be with my own (other car nuts), and, I had a great time making friends (and helping others) for about 10 Years or so (I still see many of them around, but most of them don't Post as much any more either)-it just seems that more and more that sometimes it doesn't matter what is the correct way to do it (or, that there may be more than one way), inevitably someone has to have the last word or opinion-

I truly admire those who continually help others (including many here who Post day after Day), even while being chastised-I am definitely not the smartest, and I certainly don't know it all, but I found great satisfaction in helping someone else who didn't have experience with that particular problem-it was what drove me to enjoy these sites every day-

Now, I lurk-I still learn a lot (for which I am thankful), but it just isn't the same (nor is it as enjoyable)-maybe that is what has put a downward spiral (less participation) on Forums?