Rack and Pinion set up for a 1947 Chrysler New Yorker four-door sedan?

[The BUCKSTER]

I'm looking for a way to put a rack and pinion on my 47 Chrysler. Fat man fabrications has a kit for a Plymouth or Dodge using a cavalier or grand am Rack and Pinion but they said it was too light for a Chrysler. I'm looking for someone who has done this before on a Chrysler or someone who knows how to do it . Is there a heavier Rack and Pinion I can use. I'm trying to put a 350 in the Chrysler but the steering box is in the way any suggestions or knowledge on how to do this would be appreciated. Thanks a lot, The BUCKSTER

[techinspector1]

Front clip the car with a clip from a '91-'96 Dakota pickup. A 360 Mopar is a bolt-in or a 350 Chevy will fit with hybrid motor mounts. Here's some gibberish I wrote a while back that has been amended by other hot rodders. You should be able to glean something useful from it.
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Frame_swaps

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[The BUCKSTER]

Hello TechInspector 1, I was hoping you would weigh in on this, this is my first builder so I kind of didn't want to go something that drastic , I realize all the benefits of doing a subframe but I was just thinking about Raccon Pinion on it power steering I'd like to do a disc brake set up on it but I also want to keep the old car driving feel, I know that by putting those things on it will change the way it drives and feels but I'm hoping it won't change everything. Be that this is my first build I have hundreds of ideas floating around in my head and I'm just trying to explore some of them before I make a decision. Thank you so much for your input and I hope you keep an eye on me. Your input is greatly appreciated anytime. Thanks again, The BUCKSTER

[rspears]

.........but I was just thinking about Raccon (?) Pinion on it power steering.....

You're meaning a power RACK and pinion steering, right?

[techinspector1]

Let me help you out a little here. What we're talking about is a rack and pinion assembly. I know of no such thing as a Raccon Pinion. Here's a youtube tutorial that will explain the function of the unit as a whole and individual parts as well. You can skip forward on the video to 1:20 and not miss anything. To sort of get you headed in the right direction though, the pinion is connected to the steering wheel of the car. The rack is connected to the spindles/steering arms of the front suspension system. When you turn the steering wheel, the pinion on the other end of the steering shaft turns and moves the rack right or left to make the front wheels turn right or left.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfqieV1xzJQ

The steering system on your Chrysler is probably a worm and sector arrangement, as shown on this video of a mechanic rebuilding a Jeep steering box....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsILb3-O4AY

There is nothing wrong with using a worm and sector steering system. Millions of them are out working every day. So don't just jump out there and spend money that doesn't need to be spent. You can move that 350 up, down, to the front, to the rear and sideways to make room between the motor and the steering box. Some Mopar engines were moved to the passenger side by as much as 3 inches in order to have the driver's side valve cover miss the brake booster (think Hemi).

Swing the 350 and transmission into the engine bay as a unit, then determine how far to the passenger side you will have to position the motor/trans. You want the trans attached so you can get clearance between the bellhousing and transmission in the driveshaft tunnel. Metal on metal will make noise that you will not like.

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[glennsexton]

Welcome to CHR BUCKSTER!
As has been mentioned, we’re a bit slow on the responses sometimes, but have a lot of good ol’ hot rod knowledge here. If you have not already found this site, go to 1947 Chrysler (USA) New Yorker Sedan full range specs as they have a lot of good information about size and weight of the New Yorker. According to them, your car weighs in at about 4100 pounds. I agree that that would be a bit more weight than a typical Mustang II retrofit but certainly a rack and pinion setup for early F-100 or GM pickup would be more than up to the task.

You’ll have to get a bit creative and I’m thinking a kit from these guys might be your ticket. Steering Wheels, Pumps,Columns, Rack and Pinion Conversions

If you have not already done so, steam clean the daylights out of the front end. It’s always more fun to work on clean stuff. Also get lots of good lighting as it makes for more accurate end product. Measure everything and take some graph paper and sketch out how things are put together. Take a lot of pictures and then call the customer service folks at 800-407-9112 and start a dialog about what you’ve got. In all likelihood, they can kit up a lot the parts like the rack, power steering pump, hoses, steering box, etc., but you will have to fabricate some brackets and the steering linkage using some Borgeson universals and shaft supports. If you'd stayed with the straight eight clearances would not be a problem but a V8 will perhaps give some challenges for working the steering geometry around the exhaust.

Take your time and let us see the pictures. I’ll bet there’s someone here at CHR that will recognize or at least know of a project that is similar in nature and be able to help. I’m of the mind that if I go slow and am willing to measure, fabricate, adjust and be prepared to do that several times I can do just about anything I set my mind to. If you have welding and fabricating skills and equipment you’re halfway there.

Again, welcome to CHR!
Glenn

[The BUCKSTER]

Sorry about that miss spell on rack and Pinion that dang old Kindle fire tablet that I'm talking into must've took my Missouri Arkansas accent for that other word. I guess I should use spell check next time . Since I'm not looking too good on the brainiac act side I am gonna have help in getting this motor set in. It's a gentleman who has a shop here in town and he has quite a few engine swaps under his belt he's just never done a Chrysler before and I'm just trying to cover all the bases and learn as I go along. All of you guys is ( spell check ) advice and help has been great so far and I hope you keep it coming and like it was said why spend the money if you don't have to. The BUCKSTER

[techinspector1]

I very strongly suggest that you purchase a book that has to do with swapping and read through it several times before you and your local fellow begin the swap. John Thawley wrote this book many years ago and it has helped many young fellows to engineer the proper swap. I further suggest that you buy a used copy to keep costs down. I buy used books all the time to save a few shekels. Buy yours from the Second Helpings Thrift Store shown at the top of the list here, $14.00 plus $3.99 shipping.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...condition=used

Be advised though, that it does not stop with an engine swap. I suspect that the differential in the car will not last long if you bang on it with a 350 Chevy. There will always be "the weakest link" in a swap.

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[The BUCKSTER]

Hello techInspector1. Thanks for the book info , I will pick that up. I am at least three months out from doing any kind of a swap that's why I'm trying to get all the information I can so I can make the best decision about what I'm going to do, after going out and reevaluating my front end and everything that has to be done to it and everything that I want to do to it I just might be better off with a front clip . Now you mentioned the 91 to 96 Dakota truck would make a good donor clip now is that a Mopar on Mopar thing or is that the best front clip for the job over a Chevy or Ford front clip like say out of a S-10 or something. Does the Dakota clip line up better or what is your reason for using the Dakota clip. Would you also happen to know if they came with rack and pinon or power steering or power disc brakes. Thanks again for your help, The BUCKSTER

[techinspector1]

I wouldn't use an S10 for the same reason that Fat Man Fabrications told you not to use their MII unit. I wouldn't trust it to be strong enough for a car that will be as heavy on the front end as I'm thinkin' yours will be. Curb weight of the '47 is in the 3600 lb range. Curb weight of the '91-'96 Dakota is in the 3400 lb range, has rack and pinion steering and power disc brakes. By the time you get a 360 Mopar set in on the stock factory motor mounts, swap out the heads for a set of aluminum ones and change the intake manifold to an aluminum unit, you'll be really close on the curb weight, car to truck, so all the components of the truck would be engineered for the weight of the Chrysler. There is also a stroker kit available to enlarge the 360 out to 408 cubic inches. I wouldn't even think of adulterating that nice old machine with a Chevy motor, not when a 360/406 will slip right in on the stock mounts. Find a Dakota donor and use everything out of it, including the computer and wiring.

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[NTFDAY]

Would a later model clip work as well? Before I bought the 04 Dakota I have now I bought a 91 with almost 145 thousand on the clock and I sold it at around 190 thousand and it was starting to smoke some, but the 318 was stout with all that's been mentioned before plus cruise with the only drawback being the 6 lug bolt pattern. My 04 will get close to 15 mpg in city driving and close to 20 on the highway if I keep my foot out of it and it's a 4.7 V8.

[Mike P]

Hi Buckster, figured I weigh in here with some for what it’s worth stuff.

I do have a few questions for you. The reason I ask is to get a feel for what you are capable of and what you will probably have to farm out. You mention you’re on a budget (isn’t everybody )

What is your skill level and experience? Basically have you done anything like this before, or do you have good mechanical skills. Do you have a good selection of tools? Do you have an engine hoist or access to one for an extended period of time? Do you have any welding skills and equipment? Do you have a decent place to work……depending on which way you go with the project, it may have to sit for extended periods of time in an unmovable state. If you do a front clip swap, it will be almost mandatory to have a smooth, level place to work to get the proper measurements before grafting on the front clip.

Do you already have the 350 and transmission? If you do and you are locked into the swap so be it, if not don’t discount using another brand of engine.

Finally, how do you know the 350 won’t clear the steering box? I’ve done a few swaps over the years. In this day of the internet, it’s usually pretty easy to look up and see if someone else has done a similar project and get an idea about what you’re getting yourself into. My experience though is that no 2 swaps are identical, especially if it’s a less than common swap. Seeing how someone else has done it before is not necessarily a hard and fast rule about how you are going to do yours, it should rather be more of a guide line. Honestly you really won’t know if it will fit or not until it’s hanging in the engine compartment.

As far as the engine clearing the original steering box, it’s usually an exhaust interference problem, and there are often a lot of different ways to solve the issue. Depending on the situation it could be as simple as raising the engine ½” to as complicated as building a custom header for that side, to modifying a single tube on an existing set of headers, to just using a different exhaust manifold ( and Chevy used a lot of different style manifolds over the years).

I did a BB Chevy into a 52 Ford truck and had years ago and it had a steering box clearance issue. The solution was as simple as getting another passenger side exhaust manifold and mounting it on the drivers side. It gave me the clearance I needed and I just had to build a different head pipe for the exhaust as the drivers side now exited from the front of the engine.

Anyway looking forward to following your build.

[The BUCKSTER]

Okay before I get started answering Mike P's questions I just want to thank all you guys for the help and advice that I've been getting . I'm soaking it all up like a sponge, please keep the help coming. Now as far as my mechanical skills go I would say I'm a couple steps up from a weekend warrior I don't have a big rollaway as far as tools go but I do have the basics. This will be my first old car build and I do know my limitations . There will be a professional installing the motor and tranny, the rear end, this disc brake set up, rebuilding the front end if I choose to go that way, the brake booster and all new brake lines, I just don't want to mess around when it comes to the brakes. I have all the confidence in the world with my mechanic who I think fate had a hand in our meeting. I was down at the laundromat one day, what can I say I've been married three times and now I'm single, yeah, across the street was a mechanic shop, on the side was a 58 Chevy in the front was a 54 or 55 Chevy truck and inside was a 70 something truck getting an LS1 motor put in. After talking with him for a while it came to light that he was my dad's mechanic when he was alive so if he's good enough for my dad he's good enough for me. Besides it takes two months to get an appointment with him. I also asked around town about him( you can do that in a small town) and heard nothing but good about him. Now as far as the 350 engine goes here are my reasons why, first off it's my mechanics personal motor out of his 64 Malibu station wagon and the only reason he selling it is because he's going with an LS one motor, the motor was just rebuilt has less than 5000 miles on the rebuild it comes with Edelbrock manifold Edelbrock carburetor headers one wire alternator starter and he said there was a mild cam in it. Second of all he said he would bring it by the house one day so I could hear it, couple of days later I hear this noise coming down the road it was at least a block and a half away and sure enough here comes my motor, it was one of the healthiest motors I've ever heard. When he left he punched it of course there was no missing no hesitation no smoke and the exhaust was as clean as the air around it. Mark it SOLD. The third reason for buying this motor was that he sold it to me for $800.00. He started out at a $1000.00 but I'm not sure if it was because he knew my dad or what but I wasn't going to argue with Him. You have to admit that was quite a good deal. While he was here we went to the back and looked at the Chrysler and he took some measurements and said that we might have a problem with the exhaust and the steering column that's why I was looking for different options of what we could do with the steering. It's just that when a problem might arise I like to have a couple of options of how to fix it and thanks to you guys I have those options. After trying three other forums which left me with a bad taste in my mouth for forums I'm so glad I found this one and people like you guys. I'll post some pictures as soon as I can. Thanks again, The BUCKSTER

[The BUCKSTER]

Good morning gentlemen; I am looking for some feedback on transmission coolers . Being that I have to get a new radiator I would like to get some pros and cons on do I get one with the cooler inside the radiator or would it be better for the cooler to be outside . I'm leaning on going with one inside the radiator just for cosmetic purposes and because I'm going to have an electric fan on the inside I have a condenser probably for the air conditioner on the other side, and is it always better to have a three line radiator . So please step on up and let me have your opinions. Thanks again, The BUCKSTER

[NTFDAY]

IMHO, a cooler in the radiator is more efficient as it's directly in the air flow. Generally speaking, an aftermarket cooler leaves you in in a quandary as to mounting location for good air flow and protection from road debris. That can really be a pain in the cramped engine quarters of early vehicles.