Thread: Hidden Costs
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11-26-2012 11:13 PM #1
Hidden Costs
We all talk about shop equipment.It's almost like I do too assume we already own it all.If you think about it just good 220 gas mig and a Tig would run you upwards to $2500 to $3000 grand.If I was to buy a Imperial English Wheel no problem to cost $3500.Then a decent shear about $1500 to a easy $2000.A decent planishing air hammer about $350 to $500.A brake about $375 to a rolling type to $1,000.
Now I read the whole thread about Tig's and the advise given by Jerry and Pat is rock solid on how to make them better.Thing is the consumables in gas,rods,etc is all covered by income from jobs they might be doing.For the home user it is hard to come up with the money for that in a personal project.Heck it is hard to come up with what would rival the cost of the project itself for the shop supplies and equipment.
All the above pricing is for a general feel about what I am saying here.Kind of depressing when you think about say a easy $20,000 grand in that stuff.And that is just the equipment and not anything about a shop to work in and heat for the same.Just some random thoughts I have been thinking about.Starting to think the only way is to take on side jobs........
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11-27-2012 07:34 AM #2
Laying out 20k just to start is hard to think of. However if you buy things as needed it ain't so bad. Got to pay to play and as in racing it cost to be fast, well it cost to build. There is a load of satisfaction in building, not only building but a huge advantage in repairing. Many times the repair will correct a manufacturer's poor engineering, custom a product for you own needs and uses.
Consumables usually that is a item bought in bulk and how good the user is will determinein the amount spent to replenish. Two people drive the exact same car one will always go further cause of his driving habits. There are ways to get many jobs out of a bottle of argon. When I get my feet wet with the Tig I am sure the filler and tungsten electrode cost will come down, again back to the user in this case me.
Lots of things to be thought about and get depressed, I just do not have the time to waste on that myself. Get a plan and work on making it a reality, it will turn that frown upside down.I have two brains, one is lost and the other is out looking for it
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11-27-2012 08:28 AM #3
The race shop is 60 miles away from me.It is exclusively for the race cars and parts business.Heck we don't even do maintenance on the tow vehicles there.We farm that out.It has all those things in equipment I spoke about and more.But it also has over thirty yrs of build up in that equipment.
My private shop here in Roch is mine and I need all that stuff and more to do the projects aside from the van I have to do.And I need it all now.That is the part that is kicking my butt.I'm 65 yrs old and I need it now.I guess I'm just saying................
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11-27-2012 11:51 AM #4
65 and you sound like todays generation "Got to have it now" What the hell happened to working for it saving for it. Just sounds like your throwing a tantrum I expect well be seeing tears soon. GROW UPCharlie
Lovin' what I do and doing what I love
Some guys can fix broken NO ONE can fix STUPID
W8AMR
http://fishertrains94.webs.com/
Christian in training
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11-27-2012 01:54 PM #5
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11-27-2012 02:27 PM #6
Isn't it a matter of establishing wants vs true needs? A guy who has plenty of time (read that as "retired") and a reduced income can accomplish a lot with some pretty simple hand tools and a bit of innovation and imagination. For example, the edge of a workbench, a piece of angle iron and a handful of C-clamps makes an effective sheet metal break. It's not as quick, but it'll work. The english wheel? That's one that looks intriguing, but I really cannot see myself investing the time to learn how to use it effectively at this point in life. Same with a planishing hammer - sexy, but am I really going to get into that degree of metal work, and all it really is is a very fast hammer and dolly? I mean, how many times do I really need to hit my thumb with a hammer in the course of thirty seconds, anyway? A lot can be accomplished with a set of hammers and a leather shot bag on a tree stump if it has to be done. For me, if I didn't have anything but simple hand tools and started thinking I was going to outfit a complete shop from scratch post retirement I'd hope that someone in my life would be kicking my butt up between my shoulder blades for throwing good money after bad, and push me toward finding a hobby that I could do with a much smaller investment, like photography or playing music, or painting nudes. OK, maybe not painting nudes - Mama probably wouldn't like that hobbyLast edited by rspears; 11-27-2012 at 03:25 PM.
Roger
Enjoy the little things in life, and you may look back one day and realize that they were really the BIG things.
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11-27-2012 02:43 PM #7
My shear is a hand held Ingersoll Rand air shear, think I paid $150.00 for it, for small pieces, two hand held sheet metal shears, one for left turns and one for right turns, $15.00 each at Ace. My English wheel is the welder tank, light pole in the alley, different sizes of tubing, some wooden dowels, body hammers, a shot bag, and whatever else has the configuration I need. If it's a large piece, I make a wooden buck out of 3/4" plywood and form on it. My brake is a $50.00, 30" unit I bought from Speedway, for pieces over 30" it's some angle iron screwed to the bench top, some pieces of hardwood, a hammer, and a plastic mallet. A one man shop that is nothing more then a hobby shop doesn't "need" all the expensive equipment, just some common sense and a bit of ingenuity!!!! When I retired from the big shop to my garage, the fancy stuff got sold with the shop, don't have room for it now anyway. Maybe it's time to quit looking in the wish books and just get to work!!!!!!
Looks like Roger and I were typing at the same time!!!!!Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
Carroll Shelby
Learning must be difficult for those who already know it all!!!!
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11-27-2012 02:47 PM #8
HA HA HA!! Painting nudes.. yeah, right!! Playing music? Yeah, I HAD TO get me a Gibson! Then I HAD TO have the Fender amp, then there's lessons and the list goes on!!
It's a curse that we suffer from, being creative and having the desire to create something from nothing..
In my case, I assembled mine beginning in the shop at the farm with simple hand tools, then as the jobs moved the car went too. Even less tools and even smaller shops then garages.. Is mine a show car? Nope, not by any stretch of an imagination, but I did it all and am proud of what I accomplished so far. I already want to repaint it! I am re-doing the motor / trans this winter, and I'm going to do some more to the interior. I'll make it a little bit better, and I'm sure it'll get "re-done" some more next winter too!
My uncle says I should've assembled it with wing nuts as I'm always taking it back apart! LOL..
A lot of things I had never done before but read some books and talked to other folks and planned the work to get it done. Sometime with mixed results but that's the way for a DIY'er.. On the job training has a price and it can be steep sometimes. But I didn't have / don't have a real need for a bunch of expensive tools / equipment for 1 or 2 projects.
HMmm.. looks like Dave & I were typing at the same time! :-)
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11-28-2012 02:37 PM #9
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11-28-2012 03:07 PM #10
Yeah, you're preaching to the choir! I'm waiting for the UPS guy now to bring my Canon E60D 18-200mm unit Boys & their toys!! But at least with digital a guy can take a ton of pictures, select the "good" ones on the screen, and then only deal with how he wants to utilize those "treasures". A far sight from the old days of film and developing, plus then enlargement, mounting, etc, etc....Last edited by rspears; 11-28-2012 at 03:10 PM.
Roger
Enjoy the little things in life, and you may look back one day and realize that they were really the BIG things.
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11-27-2012 02:49 PM #11
Yes but you both said tyhe same thing.Charlie
Lovin' what I do and doing what I love
Some guys can fix broken NO ONE can fix STUPID
W8AMR
http://fishertrains94.webs.com/
Christian in training
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11-27-2012 02:51 PM #12
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11-27-2012 04:12 PM #13
you should buy all this stuff in hopes of making a honest living with it . then let the bitching begin ?? can i start first? gary you think you need a wheel ? no you want one. plashing power hammer ???ask anyone that seen me wheeled one of my finish hammers . or a slap spoons. sounded like some mad irish man on speed beating out a tune to the river dance with a hammer that was before my fibro took the wind out of me .never had any of the things you think you need and made many panles and fixed alot of bent of body parts every day it the body shops i worked atIrish Diplomacy ..the ability to tell someone to go to Hell ,,So that they will look forward to to the trip
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11-27-2012 07:50 PM #14
"Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty." John Basil Barnhil
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11-27-2012 08:14 PM #15
Last edited by pat mccarthy; 11-27-2012 at 08:16 PM.
Irish Diplomacy ..the ability to tell someone to go to Hell ,,So that they will look forward to to the trip
I've used both X and H pipes on some builds and really the only thing that was noticeable was the change in exhaust sound.....I tend to agree with Rodger that any benefit you'd actually see/feel is...
Exhsust system