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i have been looking for a engine since march to drop in my monte. took the old one out and installed it in my 86 z28. today on craigslist i came across a 472 out of a 71 caddy hearse. it had less than 67,000 on the engine and was still running. it took that old hearse with 4 flat tires and had her fishtailing on a dirt road. the guy even delivered it from over a hour away and threw in the tranny for free. the whole package only cost me 500.00 and a old carb. i am so excited.
Great find, that will definitely move the Monte. Check out this site for lots of info, helpful people and swap info
http://www.500cid.com/
Pat
Some will say it is an impossible swap Barb, but it isn't. Caddy engines are pretty compact for the cubes they displace, and the accessories and lumps are in normal places. I think it will make a good engine for the Monte.........we want lots of pictures.:):)
Don
Duplicate post.:p
i will post pictures soon. can not wait to get her in and start it up. though i am sure that it will be weeks away. only problem i see is the oil pan clearance. motor mounts look like a match and in my monte she was built for a 454 to drop in. hopefully it will not be a really hard install. thanks pat for the link. lots of good info.
good score should be a good engine, things to look for are timing chain condition and good compression i put a comp cam and eld intake on mine runs well but cam could be bigger.
put a 2500 stall converter and kit in the tranny and it'll go like heck
I have a am buick style rocker arm rail kit for the cadillac that i will be getting rid of soon if your interested .
am going to the mts azluminum heads and rollers
should fit the car no problem but i dont know about ac
One more thing, yours probably has a mid sump pan, you will probably need to find an Eldorado pan which has a rear sump to fit right in your Monte.
Pat
thanks guys. what year eldorado pan pat. sounds like something i am going to need.
I had the same engine in my 69 Caddy Fleetwood.
Man that thing could really move when it had a good tune up on it.
Kurt
I believe any year Eldorado with front wheel drive. They all used the 472 or 500 motors which are externally the same. Watch for them on EBay or the 500CID.com site if you don't find one locally. Be sure to get the oil pick up tube with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jyardgirl
Pat
Those are great motors, Jyard! Something like a factory 10:1 compression and almost 400hp if I remember the specs from my 1970 Fleetwood. The old Monte should smoke the rubber pretty good with that beast.
The easiest rear sump pan to find is the one for a late 70's early 80s 425 ci in a fleetwood. It bolts right on to the 472/500 and is made to fit the Monte type chassis.
You got that right Falconvan.
400 HP with 525 foot pounds of torqe.
Kurt
Man Enjenjo, haven't seen you around in a LONG time. Glad to see you posting again, you always had a lot of experience to share and did it willingly. Don't be a stranger! :):)Quote:
Originally Posted by enjenjo
Don
Barb, once you get that 472 in the Monte, you’ll be kicking the Z28 to the curb the next day :LOL::LOL:
I’m really looking forward to your swap. You’ve got a lot of good information so far and if you don’t mind I’ll throw in my 2 cents.
I just got thru with the mockup of a 500 Caddy into my 83 El Camino….as your engine compartment is a bit larger than mine I really don’t think you’ll run into too many problems, just do you’re research you’ll likely find someone who has already done this swap that can save you some pitfalls.
With the low miles of this engine it probably doesn’t really need a lot. At a minimum I would change the timing chain set. The factory one uses the nylon timing gear that comes apart, especially with age. The same is true for the valve seals. Chances are the oil pump is in good shape and can be reused as is (something I would recommend as many of the new replacement pumps have been reputed to have a problem with the relief valve sticking causing a loss of oil pressure).
Stock Cadillac valve springs tend to float at about 4200 RPM so you might want to upgrade a bit and a little hotter cam wouldn’t hurt, although even in stock form the 472s are a torque monster.
If you want to get away from the points a later 425 Caddy HEI is a drop in but have a pretty crappy mechanical curve so you’ll probably want to rework that a bit.
The stock pulley and belt setup you have is kind of screwy with a belt from the crank pulley that drives the smog pump which in turn has a belt to run the waterpump. To eliminate the smog pump you can use either the later 425 setup or try to find the 1970 only pulleys and bracket setup. Just make sure you also grab the timing tab along with everything else.
As far as the actual swap:
In spite of what some of the books say the Caddy is about 100 pounds heavier than the small block your replacing (not 50 pounds that is often quoted), plus you will be picking up some additional weight from the TH400 that will replace the TH350 you’re likely pulling out.
The fuel line will need to be move/rerouted to the drivers side if the stock caddy mechanical pump is used.
The exhaust manifolds from the 472 should work with no problems.
The big issue will be the pan as already mentioned. You currently have a front sump pan. As mentioned a 425 pan might fit, but it’s actually more of a mid sump pan (the first picture is a 425 pan). A bit more cross member clearance will be had with an El Dorado pan. The down side of the El Dorado pan is that it’s actually a dual sump pan and the front sump normally holds about 1 Qt of oil. Unfortunately the drain plug for the front sump will probably be right over the crossmember making oil changes pretty messy. What I did to cure that little problem on my swap was to heat the area and use a piece of pipe and hammer to make a trough to allow the front sump to drain to the rear. Whatever pan you get make sure you also get the pickup and dipstick and tube.
Anyway good luck and keep us posted.
thanks mike. that is alot of great info and the pictures are very helpful.
Eaton Detroit Spring will have the correct front springs on the shelf.....
http://www.eatonsprings.com/
thanks tech.
Barb the site that Stu Cool gave you is a great site for the old caddy stuff.
You may want to check and see if anyone has installed a Harmonic balancer bolt because
after the factory installs the balancer they remove the bolt. and your gonna need that if you want to replace your front seal. Those timming plates that the seal goes in to are usally pitted prettty bad. You may also need to fix it or buy a new one.
I sanded mine down to bare metal, smothed JB weld on it then sanded it, and gave it a fresh paint job. It looked like new. The stock valve covers I could not get to stop leaking till I made some studs to go in the heads instead of the factory bolts.
Plus that makes it easier to just throw the gasget on the studs with no alinement problems then throw the valve covers on and some nuts and your done no leaks.
I just used the regular cork gasgets on them.
Kurt
Good deal Barb! I'm excited for you. This should be a hot setup!
Hey Barb, how you doing? Is you back doing better?
Did you hear that John (Nitrowarrior) died 2 days ago from his cancer?
Pat