NA$CAR races

I have one to throw out for some discussion.

My history watching NA$CAR racing dates back a lot of years - back to when they ran 65 or so per season and about half on dirt. With that said and as a spectator only, the racing of the last couple of years, particularly since the introduction of the COT has gotten, for no better word but DULL for a spectator. The drivers with few exceptions are - dull. There really is no personality of take no prisoners like Cale, Bobby, David Pearson, and even everyone's favorite, Dale Sr, to love/hate (who most never heard of until he was killed). Even the Busch/Nationwide races have gotten dull with mostly the same drivers. Kyle Busch - a good driver is --- dull. Yesterday, again, whining because someone nudged him. It's a second tier race and some drivers just don't have the same skills. Stop crying and drive, dammit. Looking at the stands - the economy is hurting some, but even Bristol, which always had filled for both the day and night races, was far from full, regardless of what the pundits in the booth said - camera shots don't lie. It wasn't filled, just like all of the rest of the venues so far this year, including Daytona.

Enough from me for now - now further comments........:HMMM:

I totally agree, Boaring!!!!!!! This is gonna ruffle some feathers.

Just depends on what you're looking for in a race, I guess. Haven't watched a complete race yet, but the bits and pieces I've caught show significant lead changes and passing.... The big thing, it's not a 30 lap shoot out on Saturday night on the dirt.....The races are long, the driver and crew who can keep the car hooked, save the tires, keep the engine alive, and avoid the wrecks is going to finish well... To finish first, you must first finish.... Lap after lap at qualifying speed, bouncing off walls and other cars, pushing others out of the way would not be conducive to finishing, let alone winning very many races....

I do appreciate the strategy in NASCAR, Indy Car, and American Le Mans series racing..... Takes some very, very meticulous building and race prepping on the cars. Pit strategy, tire management, so many other things all come in to play. But, when I want wild racing with a zillion passes per lap, and half the drivers out there with the "Checkers or Wreckers" mentality, I just head out to the dirt track on Saturday night....

PS---Please exclude me from the "Dale Sr., everyone's favorite" list.......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

PS---Please exclude me from the "Dale Sr., everyone's favorite" list.......

---

Dave - I always try to make middle of the road statements about folk heroes. You either love 'em or hate 'em. I believe that you are of the same frame of mind as I am about that individual:) and Love is(n't) In The Air

I totally DISAGREE!!!!!!!
I went to the Daytona 500 this year and I couldn't see very many open seats and we could only get seats in the Superstretch. Most everyone stood up the whole race; only sat down when the wrecks were being cleaned up.

I've gone to lots of dirt track races and even been part of the crews. Back in 65 I got to see the North Star 350 on dirt.......... None of them even come close to the Daytona 500. No, not boring at all.

The worst change in the racing is the addition of too many boring race tracks like Texas and California(and many other intermediate cookie cutters that they have recently built) that are too easy to drive and are 3 grooves wide..That causes a lot of gas mileage races and follow the leader stuff..What a lot of folks do NOT remember too is that in the old days they did have a lot of races where guys like Petty and Pearson lapped the field because they were factory backed and the other cars were not. They had some boring racing then also,it just wasn't on TV..

I went to Bristol this year. In past it was the the track where the action was. Even as loud as it is there, I fell asleep.
The best race was the NASCAR Legends race Saturday night with Jr Johnson, Cale Y, and Harry Gant, to name a few.

I didn't see any evidence that the race was affected by the economy. The crowds at the vendors was huge and the stands were full.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h...090327_576.jpg

Ok, so what is it you guys expect to see at a NASCAR race???? Lots of wrecks or what???? Always been curious what people expect, and how they think the racing could be improved....??????

I think IC2 opened up a new bag of beans!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1983_prostreet_

I think IC2 opened up a new bag of beans!!!

---

Maybe that was my intent - usually Dave S starts a NA$CAR thread.

My concerns - It didn't just happen in the last year or two but I don't see the side by side racing, much if any rivalry between drivers, even much emotion after a bad day (NA$CAR calls 'em to the trailer if they say anything stronger then darn). The fact that there are too many cookie cutter tracks. Then some drivers complain about tracks like Loudon or Watkins Glen, for instance. Dammit, Mr Driver, you are paid mega bucks, have most likely have paid your dues somewhere, now, do you just want be lazy and to put the car in gear and turn left? Then pick up your contract share of the purse plus your salary? Yes, there is some action on the track, most of the time it's in the first 10/20 laps for those good cars that qualified badly to get to the front then the last 20, 30 or so, when those that had a pit penalty, a flat or other problem that are trying to get back where they belong. Wrecks - well, they happen, but that isn't why I watch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daffy427

... too many boring race tracks like Texas and California(and many other intermediate cookie cutters that they have recently built) that are too easy to drive and are 3 grooves wide.......

---

That there sounds like a lot of Florida diddly poop to me ..................;)

Kitz

I say they need to go back to factory cars, Or Stop calling them stock car races! The only thing stock is the hood & trunk lid!

Dave, you wouldn't like it if every!, I mean Every car in go round racing & Drag cars were Identical inside & out in all classes, except for the number on the side. (To identify which was yours) It makes it boring to watch!! **)

My $.02 worth!
Pat

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HemiTCoupe

I say they need to go back to factory cars, Or Stop calling them stock car races! The only thing stock is the hood & trunk lid!

Dave, you wouldn't like it if every!, I mean Every car in go round racing & Drag cars were Identical inside & out in all classes, except for the number on the side. (To identify which was yours) It makes it boring to watch!! **)

My $.02 worth!
Pat

---

We already have that.....From Top Fuel down to Super Gas.... The brackets and lower classes not near as affected by it, though. As to the body design, don't really see what else NASCAR could do other then the one big template plan..... Without it, whoever has the most $$$$$ to spend on wind tunnel time and body developement wins.....

Watching a race, I'm more into what "my drivers" are doing and could really give a hoot what they drive!!!! Smoke went from chebbie to Toyota, then back to chebbie....but he's still my man!!!! Brand loyalty used to be a huge thing to the team owners---Petty and Plymouth, Jr. Johnson and chebbie, etc.... Heck, all the late model racing and the IMCA and WISSOTA mods run identical aluminum panels with just a different plastic nose piece....

My "cure" for what ails NASCAR is to keep the current body specs, lower the minimum weight down to about 2800 pounds, and implement the old ASA rule of 9:1 compression and let the crew chiefs run whatever gear they can build an engine to live with!!!!!! If they went to "stock body and chassis" cars with parts available at the dealerships parts counter, that would be fine with me!!!!! Can't you see the Ford boys lining up them rear wheel drive Crown Vics with the 5.4 DOHC engines with Superchargers!!!!!! Where the heck would the chebbie boys be with them antique pushrod engines??????

Also, lets go back to NASCAR running on the real race tracks like Rockingham!!! Then instead of more 1 1/2 mile tracks lets build a Bristol like track with the progressive banking and make it a mile long.....Oh yeah, and don't forget the stop on a few dirt tracks, especially the old, flat fairgrounds mile tracks!!!!!

NASCAR is far from perfect, but in the Motorsports arena, it's certainly the most successful and profitable series out there!!!!!!

OK guys, whatja think of that Talladega race?

i think its about time someone finally gave the busch brothers some love taps. wait for the whiny interview :LOL:

I too was at Daytona, our seats are half way between the exit to pit road and the starting line. I saw a lot of empty seats. I had scanner trouble about 2/3's the way through the race and the people who take the tickets were gone, and the gates where open anyone could come in! Saturday they were selling tickets at a very discounted price, which upset me because I had to pay full price for mine last Feb. What do I think would make for better racing? Did you know that you make $80,000 dollars to finish last, you can make almost 3 million dollars just to "make" every race. I do not know the answer, I do love going, we have garage passes and infield parking permits, so being there is a fun expierence. I will keep on going until the Toyota's finally take over, which I am afraid is going to happen. We will see. But once in a while there is some serious on track racing. Edd

The one thing about this race today--- It sure as hell wasn't boring!!

RS

Missed the race but just caught some of the highlights.... I really hope that this isn't the example of what it takes to have an "exciting" NASCAR race!!!!!!! Flippin' restrictor plate racing should be outlawed as cruel and unusual punishment!!!! I don't care how much I dislike a driver, I could never, never be happy to see him taken out in a wreck!!!! I'm sure it was a really "exciting" race to the checkers or wreckers crowd!!!!! What I've seen of the highlights so far, looks like it was just another BS plate race......

It was perfect:LOL:

Checkers and wreckers crowd, Huuum thats a new one for me. Wonder if that means the folks who like to go to or watch a Stock Car Race, a Nascar Stock Car Race??? Guess it does. Some folks are so busy trying to be politically correct that maybe they forget thats Nascar is a "Stock Car Race" in a stock car race there supposed to bounce off of each other. Thats why they have fenders and roll cages.

RS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hombre259

Checkers and wreckers crowd, Huuum thats a new one for me. Wonder if that means the folks who like to go to or watch a Stock Car Race, a Nascar Stock Car Race??? Guess it does. Some folks are so busy trying to be politically correct that maybe they forget thats Nascar is a "Stock Car Race" in a stock car race there supposed to bounce off of each other. Thats why they have fenders and roll cages.

RS

---

No, checkers or wreckers around here means win or crash trying.... Not a politically correct bone in my body..... Never seen in any rule book for any sanctioning body where crashing is mandatory........ Sure don't see where banging into somebody and having a car go into the catch fence injuring spectators and tearing up a lot of high dollar equipment has any "entertainment" value to people who actually understand racing......

Talladega Race
Great race - that is if you like to see 20-30 cars destroyed, spectators injured, cars running in a 43 car (or whatever is left after a major crash) pack. Speeds on a track that really wasn't built for them, regardless of the history, including Bill Elliott in 1987 at 213. Eventually, there will be drivers or other deaths there. Drivers hate it with a passion

I like to see racing - and that wasn't what I call racing - it's called survival.

If that's your kind of race, enjoy.

I certainly understand stock car racing, and the history of it. Wrecks are a "fact" of life if you want to play that game.

I did in fact watch the race and not just some highlites, didn't see anyone bang into anyone in the Edwards -- Keselowski incident. I did see Edwards try and block and then cut down into Keselowskis car getting turned and ending up in the fence. Man thats Stock Car Racing. Edwards made a simple and relativly small mistake, Keselowski just held his line like he should have. The wreck was the by product of two guys going to it in a race. It's supposed to

be that way.

Shame any fans got hurt. But the fans know the risk they take when they attend a race---- any race. If you want to be perfectly safe Stay Home.

Last time I checked life itself has some risk's, remove them all and it's going to be real dull real quick.
\
RS

IC2,

If you remember the history of Nascar your post wasn't quite accurate.

Talladega was built the way it is and with its banking becuase Bill France wanted a track were they could run 220 MPH. The track itself was absolutly designed and built to be a + 200 mile race track.

As far as the drivers hating the Talladega, I don't know were that came from. If you listen to the drivers themselves during there interviews most of them say they love the track. but to a man they hate the "Restricter Plates" and what they do to racing. They slow the cars down and just about any racer would hate that.

RS

Yup, yer right.... Just let em run wide open, kill em all and let God sort it out!!!! Restrictor plates are not the answer, true. Time for another driver's boycott of BOTH the restrictor plate tracks. The cars are way too fast and too equal (with or without the plates) to run there. Life is full of risks, intelligent people avoid the unnecessary one...... Race fans go to see the race, maybe the wreck em rodeo crowd should try a Demolition Derby..... Wrecking is a part of racing, but anything done to make the wrecks less violent and less hazardous to the people involved is a positive step.

There is no good defense of that wreck fest that happened yesterday.... Just plain stupid to subject drivers, fans, and their equipment to that crap..... That ain't racing, just entertainment for the blood and guts crowd....

Not a helluva lot of racing going on when you got 9 wrecks during the race.:eek: That's a lot of low speed cautions. Although I have to admit, Carl Edwards attempt at flying was interesting to watch.

I used to watch every televised NA$CAR race a few years back. But I rarely take the time to watch many today. I can have just as much fun in my garage.:D

Maybe it's time to get back to the basics. Like the annual Checkered Flag Jalopy Showdown in York Springs, PA. Just good old racing in the dirt.... or mud. Rain never stops the fun..:eek::LOL:

If they did a little less blocking and a little more racing we wouldn't have so many wrecks at the plate tracks... I like the plate tracks and the short tracks way better then the intermediate stuff..

About the only solution for Talladega and Daytona is to run a smaller cube engine and do away with the restrictor plate for those races,you can still make horsepower with 302 cubes.