Hunting rifle

Sorry Vara but you have your facts completly wrong when you combine the .308 or 7.62 Nato round with the 30-30. There simply is no way to compare to the two. The .308 DOES NOT have anywhere near or close to the "ARK" using your words as the 30-30. You should know that as a former "ARMY SNIPER" and as a Former Army Sniper you would have trained extensively at Fort Benning with the .308. That is were the Army Scout Sniper school is located, and the .308 Winchester is "STILL" the weapon of choice for all training in the initial phase of training at Benning.

Accuracy and bullet flight is always--- "ALWAYS" about Balistic Coefficient of the bullet and Muzzle Velocity. In the 30-30 a round that was the first smokeless round EVER designed in 1894. Had to by design use a flat nose or rounded nose bullet because it was built for the new Mdl 94 Winchester Lever Gun, a rifle with a tubular magizine with the nose of each bullet resting on the primer of the round in front of it. Flat nose and round nose bullets are inherently very low in balistic coefficient also the muzzle velocity of the 30-30 is also very low even today. Any 30-30 bullet that is adequate for hunting at 150 or 170 Grns has a muzzle velocity around 2200 to 2400 FPS in the 30-30. The commomly used bullets in the 30-30 have a BC of around .250 to .280 or so, using the very best technology of today Hornady makes a "Flexi-Tip" bullet that can have a BC of .330 that is the best that can be hoped for in this very old cartridge. So in the 30-30 with a 100 yd zero the bullet drops as much as 2 1/2 Feet at 300yds and over 6 feet at 400 yds.

Compare that with the .308 round one of the most accurate and flat shooting rounds out there because of its superior Ballistics. BC in the .550 range are easlily obtained with over the counter componenets. This and when loaded up to the potential of the bullets at Muzzle Velocity's for the BTHP "Boat Tail Hollow point Match Bullet at 170 grns with a BC of .540 loaded to 3200fps and with a 100 yd zero this bullet drops only 14 inches at 300 yds and at 500 yds it is down only 41 inches while maintaning 2478 lbs of bullet energy. Which is more than the 30-30 has at the muzzle.

The 30-30 certainly has a place today in hunting, but one place it for sure doesnt have a place is in comparing it to the .308.

Roland

PS, Vara after posting this and then seeing your last post about the M 60 are you saying that the M 60 used the same round as the 30-30?? That can't be right I must not be reading your response correctly. I am for sure as a "FORMER ARMY SNIPER" you would in fact know that the M 60 did in fact use the 7.62 Nato round or .308!!!

Keeping it Short

HUH I'll just keep it short from now on.

not to get into a peeing match between you 2 but i think below are all the US militay bullets ever used for rifles and machine guns. they havent changed the bullet types much over histoy

U.S. Military Small Arms Ammunition Types
Rifle and Machine Gun Ammunition
.30-06 (Springfield, Garand, light machine guns)
.30 Carbine (M1 Carbine only)
.50 cal (heavy machine guns, tactical rifles)
7.62 mm NATO (M-14 rifle, M-60/M-240 machine guns)
5.56 mm (M-16 rifle, M-249 SAW)

Thanks Canadianal; Kurt

Vara, Well you are right I do know some stuff, not to much but some. Rifles, ballistics, and accurate shooting happens to be one of them. And you Sir assume to much. What makes you think that you are the only guy that ever took Chemo??

And another thing I do know for a fact and that is "NO" 30-30 has ever been the cartridge of "Choice" for any sniper "Army" or otherwise since the Army stopped riding horse's to work. I( only mention that because of your comment about pointed or Spitzer bullets and flat nosed or rounded bullets. Any reference I made to flat nosed bullets was only to the 30-30.

Vara, I think we are probably talking about two different things and are then in fact no comparing apples to apples. I do not believe that you are talking about spitzer type bullets in a 30-30. Correct me if I am wrong.

Roland

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stovens

I have recently been talking with some friends and cousins about taking up big game hunting. I was thinking something like deer, wild pigs and elk. I read a ton of info on different rifles and have kept coming back to a .45-70 Marlin guide gun. The plan is to get meat for the table(not for trophy) and to be out with friends and family providing for our families.
Anyone on here have any experience with a guide gun? They seem very popular for their weight, size and accuracy. Evidently the shoot fast and fairly straight, especially when loaded with Hornady Lever Evolution rounds.

---

Yes it's a Very Fine Gun to own . I have one it has a strong action and works best with Re-Loads .
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/bigbore/1895.asp

Canadianal...I assume you meant "The only rounds used in BOTH rifles and machine guns". Otherwise you left out the 30-40 Krag and, yes, the 45-70 that started this thread.

One more but it's a Submachine Gun . The M1A1 Thompson that Fired the 45ACP Hand Gun or Submachine gun Round .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by firebird77clone

Mooneye, you come across a good deal on a weapon and ammo jump on it. The Obama administration is trying to press a LOT of anti-gun legislation.

Of course, the greatest effect the pending legislation is having, is causing law abiding Americans to buy guns and ammo!

---

Yeah, that's great news!!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: A "law abiding citizen" bought the flippin' gun that was used to kill my buddy Chad while performing his duty as a Deputy Sheriff a week or so ago!!!! Really great news to hear that everybody is going to have lots of guns and ammo!!! Can hardly wait!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

Dave sorry to hear this news. I just started this thread for feedback for hunting elk, deer and pigs. It seems to have grown into something else. Sorry about your loss! I'll stick with truck questions for awhile. I'm itching to put in my motor now that the new mount is here, but bidding time until; I can get some help!

Sorry pope i didint think i had to go back that far, and i didnt include handgun rounds.

Dave i dont have any answers for you, its a tough subject for me to deal with too. Ill give you a little background , One frend dead shot himself, one cousin out hunting fell down a bank forward on his shotgun and was killed. My brother is a RCMP Constable and lives with the associated risk of that job every day. I do believe in gun control of pistols but at times think that its even a waste of time when i see what is going on in Toronto and Vancouver. There killing each other off like flies. Long guns are now registerd here too and you need to have a purchase card to buy ammo and a gun, this is to keep the guns out of the hands of the crazies but from what i have seen it really doesnt stop gun related crimes.
I hope they dont think that the laws will stop anything cause in my opinion gun laws are really for those who wish to obey the gun law, those that dont do as they wish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by canadianal

Sorry pope i didint think i had to go back that far, and i didnt include handgun rounds.

Dave i dont have any answers for you, its a tough subject for me to deal with too. Ill give you a little background , One frend dead shot himself, one cousin out hunting fell down a bank forward on his shotgun and was killed. My brother is a RCMP Constable and lives with the associated risk of that job every day. I do believe in gun control of pistols but at times think that its even a waste of time when i see what is going on in Toronto and Vancouver. There killing each other off like flies. Long guns are now registerd here too and you need to have a purchase card to buy ammo and a gun, this is to keep the guns out of the hands of the crazies but from what i have seen it really doesnt stop gun related crimes.
I hope they dont think that the laws will stop anything cause in my opinion gun laws are really for those who wish to obey the gun law, those that dont do as they wish.

---

But aren't all laws the same???? If we do away with gun laws or don't allow anymore to get on the books then should we do the same with all the other laws pertaining to all other aspects of our lives???? After all, only the law abiding citizens obey the law???? Guess I just don't see the logic. The law isn't the problem, enforcement is!!!!!

dave, i was sorry to hear about your friend but getting rid of guns aint gonna end gun related deaths, thats just fact.


have you not noticed laws have become far more restraining then say 10 years ago?

yes folks speaking of laws now anybody read the patriot act?

you can be locked up in jail forever without trail or reason, habeus corpus no longer exists. and you want us to throw our guns away, big brother has gon F-ING INSANE.

stimulus package they picked the number 700 billion out of thin air because it sounded nice and big.

but they let the automakers sink, yet they bail out criminal banking orginizations???


people int his country ahve been sucking on the hind tit of a dead cow for far to long and have done nothing. what a shame.

im mad as hell and i want this country back, damnit.

Yes Scooter We need more young Folks to think as you do . That is the First and best way to Get this Country Back .