Are We Really That Stupid???????

[Mike P]

Just listening to the local news. The blond cutie newscaster was going on about what a bargain current gas prices are.

Another artificially created spike in the market and gas prices go thru the ceiling and settle well above previous “normal prices” and we’re happy. Oil companies post record profits (AGAIN) and laughing all the way to the bank.

It’s sad that we watch this over and over again and our reaction is always so predictable.

[Itoldyouso]

Really ironic, isn't it Mike. All of a sudden I saw gas prices yesterday had dropped to $3.63.9 and I was thrilled. Just about a year ago I remember sitting in a restaurant looking out the window and said to Dan, "Holly H***, look at how high gas is over there.........$ 2.59 A GALLON!!!!!!"

They have it down pat Mike. They take the price of gas up a couple of bucks and then drop it 20 cents and we are as happy as clams. Bring out the SUV's..........gas is cheap again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the beat goes on, and on, and................................


Don

[Bob Parmenter]

This is becoming one of those endless loop discussions my friend (jeez now I'm starting to sound like one of your senators )

Those so called "record" profits still only work out to about 10 cents on the dollar, which for an industrial company is roughly average. It's just that they handle a LOT of dollars. Anyone who has ever run their own business can appreciate how non exciting a 10% net profit is. The other half of the story that never gets mentioned in the same breath is that they are also paying record Federal taxes, to the tune of nearly 40% all told. I will repeat what I've said probably a million times before.............it ain't the oil companies that push the market, it's government interference. That's what I think we're sometimes too stupid to figure out. There are still some people that haven't figured out that government mandating of corn ethanol has distorted the food pricing market............well probably denial rather than stupidity, and wishful thinking that it's a finger snap deal to switch energy sources without consequence. It's frustrating to hear people tout all the so called "alternatives" without a parrallel discussion of cost/economic impact.

I've seen a lot of mocking of oil companies here as elsewhere, but their purpose in life is to supply fuel. So far every time I pull up to a pump I can still get it, so they're doing their job on that score. The cost? I'd like to see it lower just like anyone else, but we're in a competitive situation with the rest of the world for the base material (not just fuel, but all the other derivitives like wax, plastics, pharmaceuticals, etc. that come from petroleum) and when supplies are at the margins to meet market demand price reflects that. It's no coincidence that when the tom-toms started beating about our producing more of our own petential crude resources that the world market price for crude started to soften. My hope is that just because the street price of gasoline is going down a bit now that the lazy minded citizens of this country don't take the pressure off the congressional obstructionists who are at the root of our supply problems.

[HOTRODPAINT]

"Sheep" is the word. Many people don't question anything they hear on TV....and our broadcast companies have become similar to the tabloids. It seems people don't have the ability to apply a little common sense....(not that you should always believe your friend's theory about secret societies and government conspiracies.) The more we are upset by the news....the more we tune in....and the more advertisers pay for air time.

I miss the "good old days" when a newscast did not begin with a line like, "You are not going to be happy about this..." :-(

BTW, Europe usually pays twice as much for gas, so take a bus, or stop whining. Nothing has ever gotten cheaper since I was born. A new Corvette was $3500 in '62, and I paid $12,500 for my first house in '73...a 3 bedroom with, a garage, sitting on an acre! Of course, I also remeber when I got my first $5 per hour job....and thought I was rich!

[Don Shillady]

Bob, I knew something was going on when gas went from 25.9 cents/gal to 31.9 cents/gal! The funny thing is that when you are working hard at your job you only get "News at 11" and for me as a person working in research I had a lot to think about and ignored most of the political stuff except what the state budget was for our university. Now in retirement, I am saturated with news analysis to the point that I routinely recognize the repeat of stories to meet the schedules of "working people". The key point missed by idealistic Enviromentalists is that the constant geopolitical power struggle is going on in "real time" rather than the "someday" of the long-range future of "the planet". We need to keep commuting to work, turn on the lights and everyday use of power which mostly comes from fossil fuels. I am not opposed to windmills or home roof solar panels but to destructively oppose fossil fuels to the point of harming the economy to force conversion to wind and solar begs the question of what happens on those cloudy windless days that come along? There should be no doubt that Enviromentalists do not want ANY use of fossil fuels, that causes CO2 in the atmosphere! Meanwhile the other geopolitical forces in the world are operating in real time to control oil supplies and I would think a cold winter should make the point. I had an informal debate with an otherwise nice guy I know and he wanted a "Manhattan Project" to convert to "Clean Energy"; my reply was that we already had a Manhattan Project and the result was nuclear energy. OK, we can convert to electric cars or use electrolysis to form hydrogen fuel but that means we need more electrical power so we could use 10-20 more nuclear power plants. For the "anti-fossil fuel" folks it can be shown that power plants burning coal release more radiation into the air than would a comparable wattage nuclear plant. As Bob says, we here on the Forum have gone over this several times but it is a gut/wallet issue that comes up every time we need gas! It was recently revealed that Madame Pelosi owns a large amount of stock in Picken's Windpower scheme and of course most legislators of both parties own various stock portfolios but in this case it reinforces the idea that legislators have vested interests AND one can really wonder if any of them work for the good of the country? I am discouraged about all the news I see/hear and will just hunker down on a fixed income and try to find a few simple pleasures while this circus continues!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

[robot]

And the not so sharp ones bitch about President Bush being an "oil man" with the slant that he is involved with oil refining....his company was an oil exploration company which is significantly different (and risky business).

mike in tucson

[Itoldyouso]

And the not so sharp ones bitch about President Bush being an "oil man" with the slant that he is involved with oil refining....his company was an oil exploration company which is significantly different (and risky business).

mike in tucson

Well, I consider myself fairly "sharp" and I am one of the ones who bitch about Bush. Anyone who doesn't think Bush or his Cabinet have VERY strong ties to oil must have their head in the sand.

Cheney came from Haliburton Oil Co. Condoleeza Rice came from Chevron. Don Evans has stock in oil exploration companies. And the Bush family has been involved in the oil business for a whole bunch of years.

This is one of those arguments no one can win.........you either love Bush or think he is the worst President to ever sit in the Oval Office. I won't convince you, and you certainly won't convince me.

Don

[Mike52]

"you either love Bush or think he is the worst President to ever sit in the Oval Office."

OK Don, I'll stir the pot a little. We all have opinions and mine is, he's the latter of those two choices.

Mike

[GTfastbacker]

sorry, but it isnt a problem about Mr. Bush or Mr. Rice.

Here the Oil Companies dont have a Lobby in Gouverment.
but our gas prices go thru the ceiling to.

more then tripple last 5 years.

i travel the world a lot. everywhere the same desaster...

Jörg from Germany

[francis blake]

A few days ago I saw on a disscusion show one of our national economists explaining what has taken place. The oil speculators bid the oil prices up trying to coner the market .the opec countries want to sell directly to the refineries at between $ 70 and $80 a barrel (or so they say). The economist said gas should be below $2 a gallon. That would be nice but I dont ever expect to see it. ...Francis

[robot]

Some folks should do a little research. Haliburton is not an "oil company"; they are a significant player in oilfield services such as drilling technology, the design and build of refineries, etc. but the have zero direct involvement in owning crude oil or selling crude oil. They build the infrastructure that finds, extracts, and produces crude and products from crude.

Ms. Rice did work at Chevron and Hewlett Packard (I suspected HP all along to be anti Democrat!).

The point was not a political point, it was a point that there is a difference in companies....not everyone has a hand in selling crude oil or refined products. An oilfield exploration company profits IF there is exploration happening; it does not profit directly if crude oil goes up in price...if crude prices rise, there may be more exploration since the economic justification improves.

Amen, Uncle Bob, you summed up the problem in a unbiased statement!
mike in tucson

[Don Shillady]

Well, Sorry to say Jimmy Carter was the worst and if Obama wins you will see a return to a lot of the failed Carter policies. I recall home loans at 12% and "Windfall Profits Taxes" on Big Oil. Yes GWB and Dick Cheney are "Big Oil" but doesn't the country really run on oil? After all, the mega-ton quantity of US coal is too dirty and you are probably too young to remember how the John L. Lewis Miners Union parylized the country back in the 1950s, but that was solved by the last good Democrat President Harry Truman? I suspect they did have a secret agreement with Big oil at the beginning of the Bush Administration as was necessary after the Clinton blockage of drilling in ANWR. Hey, yes indeed oil will run out someday and we should develop alternate fuels and I blame the Auto Co.s for resisting the change, but:

1. I think the Bush-Cheney Big Oil policy would have been good for the country as well as profitable, but it has been blocked by Environmentalist-Democrats till the present situation. Maybe opponents were just not part of the profit process?

2. After all the criticism of GHB-I for "not finishing the job" in Iraq, I think GWB was dared into action in Iraq. I agree, he should have stopped at victory in Afghaniston, but after all there is little or no oil in Afghanistan! As far as stopping the expense of the war, the latest comments by Obama indicate to me that more war expenses will follow except in Afghanistan and maybe Pakistan so there will not really be any relief short of a direct humiliating witdrawal. I do fault the Bush Admin. for not selling "War Bonds" to the U.S. citizenry instead of borrowing from China indirectly. Now we owe China instead of inspiring the population to a national effort AND allowing us/US to reap the gain ten years down the road by paying out the loan to us/US instead of building up dept to China!

3. If you think GWB is the worst you are too young to remember the Carter years of international humiliation, high interest rates and many stupid policies. I agree the strength of our system is that we have bloodless revolutions to make adjustments, but for the life of me I think we are going to throw out the baby with the washwater and when inflation really takes off in a Democrat Administration with destructive leaders like Reid and Pelosi you will yearn for the good old Bush Administration.

4. I try to be rational and can say I wish GWB had stopped after a more successful venture in Afghanistan, but after all it was the Clinton Administration who let OBL get away originally. I also think the Katrina disaster could have been handled better, but was hindered by recalcitrant Democrats in the offices of Mayor and Governor in Louisiana. Again, it is obvious that the housing loan situation was essentially a boondoggle scam by banks hoping the US would and did bail them out. Why would you give a mortgage to someone who has insufficient income to pay the loan?

In conclusion, of course there have been some mistakes but overall I think the Carter years were much worse and I think the Bush Administration tried hard to do what is probably an impossible job; especially with a destructive opposition in Congress. Yes, the Duke Cunninham story is discouraging and the business about Indian Reservation Gaming lobbies is sordid, but we already have a considerable sordid record from Obama in Chicago, or is that just normal for Chicago? It is simply ridiculous for Environmentalist-Democrats to put the "future of the planet" ahead of the national economy at at time when other powerful influences in the world are using oil against us! Drill, drill and drill now as well as build windmills and give me a tax break to put a solar-electric panel on my roof that would cost more than my street rod at present prices!

Best Wishes for Higher Interest, Taxes and Probably Higher Gas Prices,
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

[jyardgirl]

If we all act like sheep then we should expect to be led to the slaughter house.

[stovens]

I tend to agree with Don when it comes to the current admin. That being said...
Yet what bugs me, is every time oil goes up per barrel, gas prices go up the same day. Yet when it goes down, the reciprical doesn't happen so fast. Gas is at 4.09 a gallon for regular here. Yet when oil was at it's current price per barrel, it was around 3.59 a gallon. I know times are hard, there is a great article in the current Street Rodder magazine about the cost of gas affecting the hot rod industry in many ways.
I also don't buy the argument about gas companies just making a living. If it's so tough for them, then they shouldn't be making record profits at the cost of the consummers who support their buisness. When big buisness goes south, the government bails them out, when they make record profits price gouging consummers, they get defended(and why not, their lobbiest grease heavy the political palms, when the getting is good). It's a codependant cycle that crosses party lines. All politicians are corupt absolutely. If you think otherwise, then you probably elected them!

[mopar34]

Hotrodpaint wrote:

"Sheep" is the word.

No I'm afraid Sheep is not the Word. Lemming is!

jyandgirl wrote:

If we all act like sheep then we should expect to be led to the slaughter house.

No slaughter houses. Just the cliff's and the water below.