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Just listening to the local news. The blond cutie newscaster was going on about what a bargain current gas prices are.
Another artificially created spike in the market and gas prices go thru the ceiling and settle well above previous “normal prices” and we’re happy. Oil companies post record profits (AGAIN) and laughing all the way to the bank.
It’s sad that we watch this over and over again and our reaction is always so predictable.
Really ironic, isn't it Mike. All of a sudden I saw gas prices yesterday had dropped to $3.63.9 and I was thrilled. Just about a year ago I remember sitting in a restaurant looking out the window and said to Dan, "Holly H***, look at how high gas is over there.........$ 2.59 A GALLON!!!!!!" :eek:
They have it down pat Mike. They take the price of gas up a couple of bucks and then drop it 20 cents and we are as happy as clams. Bring out the SUV's..........gas is cheap again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
And the beat goes on, and on, and................................
Don
This is becoming one of those endless loop discussions my friend (jeez now I'm starting to sound like one of your senators:rolleyes: )
Those so called "record" profits still only work out to about 10 cents on the dollar, which for an industrial company is roughly average. It's just that they handle a LOT of dollars. Anyone who has ever run their own business can appreciate how non exciting a 10% net profit is. The other half of the story that never gets mentioned in the same breath is that they are also paying record Federal taxes, to the tune of nearly 40% all told. I will repeat what I've said probably a million times before.............it ain't the oil companies that push the market, it's government interference. That's what I think we're sometimes too stupid to figure out. There are still some people that haven't figured out that government mandating of corn ethanol has distorted the food pricing market............well probably denial rather than stupidity, and wishful thinking that it's a finger snap deal to switch energy sources without consequence. It's frustrating to hear people tout all the so called "alternatives" without a parrallel discussion of cost/economic impact.
I've seen a lot of mocking of oil companies here as elsewhere, but their purpose in life is to supply fuel. So far every time I pull up to a pump I can still get it, so they're doing their job on that score. The cost? I'd like to see it lower just like anyone else, but we're in a competitive situation with the rest of the world for the base material (not just fuel, but all the other derivitives like wax, plastics, pharmaceuticals, etc. that come from petroleum) and when supplies are at the margins to meet market demand price reflects that. It's no coincidence that when the tom-toms started beating about our producing more of our own petential crude resources that the world market price for crude started to soften. My hope is that just because the street price of gasoline is going down a bit now that the lazy minded citizens of this country don't take the pressure off the congressional obstructionists who are at the root of our supply problems.
"Sheep" is the word. Many people don't question anything they hear on TV....and our broadcast companies have become similar to the tabloids. It seems people don't have the ability to apply a little common sense....(not that you should always believe your friend's theory about secret societies and government conspiracies.) The more we are upset by the news....the more we tune in....and the more advertisers pay for air time.
I miss the "good old days" when a newscast did not begin with a line like, "You are not going to be happy about this..." :-(
BTW, Europe usually pays twice as much for gas, so take a bus, or stop whining. Nothing has ever gotten cheaper since I was born. A new Corvette was $3500 in '62, and I paid $12,500 for my first house in '73...a 3 bedroom with, a garage, sitting on an acre! Of course, I also remeber when I got my first $5 per hour job....and thought I was rich!
Bob, I knew something was going on when gas went from 25.9 cents/gal to 31.9 cents/gal! The funny thing is that when you are working hard at your job you only get "News at 11" and for me as a person working in research I had a lot to think about and ignored most of the political stuff except what the state budget was for our university. Now in retirement, I am saturated with news analysis to the point that I routinely recognize the repeat of stories to meet the schedules of "working people". The key point missed by idealistic Enviromentalists is that the constant geopolitical power struggle is going on in "real time" rather than the "someday" of the long-range future of "the planet". We need to keep commuting to work, turn on the lights and everyday use of power which mostly comes from fossil fuels. I am not opposed to windmills or home roof solar panels but to destructively oppose fossil fuels to the point of harming the economy to force conversion to wind and solar begs the question of what happens on those cloudy windless days that come along? There should be no doubt that Enviromentalists do not want ANY use of fossil fuels, that causes CO2 in the atmosphere! Meanwhile the other geopolitical forces in the world are operating in real time to control oil supplies and I would think a cold winter should make the point. I had an informal debate with an otherwise nice guy I know and he wanted a "Manhattan Project" to convert to "Clean Energy"; my reply was that we already had a Manhattan Project and the result was nuclear energy. OK, we can convert to electric cars or use electrolysis to form hydrogen fuel but that means we need more electrical power so we could use 10-20 more nuclear power plants. For the "anti-fossil fuel" folks it can be shown that power plants burning coal release more radiation into the air than would a comparable wattage nuclear plant. As Bob says, we here on the Forum have gone over this several times but it is a gut/wallet issue that comes up every time we need gas! It was recently revealed that Madame Pelosi owns a large amount of stock in Picken's Windpower scheme and of course most legislators of both parties own various stock portfolios but in this case it reinforces the idea that legislators have vested interests AND one can really wonder if any of them work for the good of the country? I am discouraged about all the news I see/hear and will just hunker down on a fixed income and try to find a few simple pleasures while this circus continues!
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
And the not so sharp ones bitch about President Bush being an "oil man" with the slant that he is involved with oil refining....his company was an oil exploration company which is significantly different (and risky business).
mike in tucson
Quote:
Originally Posted by robot
Well, I consider myself fairly "sharp" and I am one of the ones who bitch about Bush. Anyone who doesn't think Bush or his Cabinet have VERY strong ties to oil must have their head in the sand.
Cheney came from Haliburton Oil Co. Condoleeza Rice came from Chevron. Don Evans has stock in oil exploration companies. And the Bush family has been involved in the oil business for a whole bunch of years.
This is one of those arguments no one can win.........you either love Bush or think he is the worst President to ever sit in the Oval Office. I won't convince you, and you certainly won't convince me.
Don
"you either love Bush or think he is the worst President to ever sit in the Oval Office."
OK Don, I'll stir the pot a little. We all have opinions and mine is, he's the latter of those two choices.
Mike
sorry, but it isnt a problem about Mr. Bush or Mr. Rice.
Here the Oil Companies dont have a Lobby in Gouverment.
but our gas prices go thru the ceiling to.
more then tripple last 5 years.
i travel the world a lot. everywhere the same desaster... :CRY:
Jörg from Germany
A few days ago I saw on a disscusion show one of our national economists explaining what has taken place. The oil speculators bid the oil prices up trying to coner the market .the opec countries want to sell directly to the refineries at between $ 70 and $80 a barrel (or so they say). The economist said gas should be below $2 a gallon. That would be nice but I dont ever expect to see it. ...Francis
Some folks should do a little research. Haliburton is not an "oil company"; they are a significant player in oilfield services such as drilling technology, the design and build of refineries, etc. but the have zero direct involvement in owning crude oil or selling crude oil. They build the infrastructure that finds, extracts, and produces crude and products from crude.
Ms. Rice did work at Chevron and Hewlett Packard (I suspected HP all along to be anti Democrat!).
The point was not a political point, it was a point that there is a difference in companies....not everyone has a hand in selling crude oil or refined products. An oilfield exploration company profits IF there is exploration happening; it does not profit directly if crude oil goes up in price...if crude prices rise, there may be more exploration since the economic justification improves.
Amen, Uncle Bob, you summed up the problem in a unbiased statement!
mike in tucson
Well, Sorry to say Jimmy Carter was the worst and if Obama wins you will see a return to a lot of the failed Carter policies. I recall home loans at 12% and "Windfall Profits Taxes" on Big Oil. Yes GWB and Dick Cheney are "Big Oil" but doesn't the country really run on oil? After all, the mega-ton quantity of US coal is too dirty and you are probably too young to remember how the John L. Lewis Miners Union parylized the country back in the 1950s, but that was solved by the last good Democrat President Harry Truman? I suspect they did have a secret agreement with Big oil at the beginning of the Bush Administration as was necessary after the Clinton blockage of drilling in ANWR. Hey, yes indeed oil will run out someday and we should develop alternate fuels and I blame the Auto Co.s for resisting the change, but:
1. I think the Bush-Cheney Big Oil policy would have been good for the country as well as profitable, but it has been blocked by Environmentalist-Democrats till the present situation. Maybe opponents were just not part of the profit process?
2. After all the criticism of GHB-I for "not finishing the job" in Iraq, I think GWB was dared into action in Iraq. I agree, he should have stopped at victory in Afghaniston, but after all there is little or no oil in Afghanistan! As far as stopping the expense of the war, the latest comments by Obama indicate to me that more war expenses will follow except in Afghanistan and maybe Pakistan so there will not really be any relief short of a direct humiliating witdrawal. I do fault the Bush Admin. for not selling "War Bonds" to the U.S. citizenry instead of borrowing from China indirectly. Now we owe China instead of inspiring the population to a national effort AND allowing us/US to reap the gain ten years down the road by paying out the loan to us/US instead of building up dept to China!
3. If you think GWB is the worst you are too young to remember the Carter years of international humiliation, high interest rates and many stupid policies. I agree the strength of our system is that we have bloodless revolutions to make adjustments, but for the life of me I think we are going to throw out the baby with the washwater and when inflation really takes off in a Democrat Administration with destructive leaders like Reid and Pelosi you will yearn for the good old Bush Administration.
4. I try to be rational and can say I wish GWB had stopped after a more successful venture in Afghanistan, but after all it was the Clinton Administration who let OBL get away originally. I also think the Katrina disaster could have been handled better, but was hindered by recalcitrant Democrats in the offices of Mayor and Governor in Louisiana. Again, it is obvious that the housing loan situation was essentially a boondoggle scam by banks hoping the US would and did bail them out. Why would you give a mortgage to someone who has insufficient income to pay the loan?
In conclusion, of course there have been some mistakes but overall I think the Carter years were much worse and I think the Bush Administration tried hard to do what is probably an impossible job; especially with a destructive opposition in Congress. Yes, the Duke Cunninham story is discouraging and the business about Indian Reservation Gaming lobbies is sordid, but we already have a considerable sordid record from Obama in Chicago, or is that just normal for Chicago? It is simply ridiculous for Environmentalist-Democrats to put the "future of the planet" ahead of the national economy at at time when other powerful influences in the world are using oil against us! Drill, drill and drill now as well as build windmills and give me a tax break to put a solar-electric panel on my roof that would cost more than my street rod at present prices!
Best Wishes for Higher Interest, Taxes and Probably Higher Gas Prices,
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
If we all act like sheep then we should expect to be led to the slaughter house.
I tend to agree with Don when it comes to the current admin. That being said...
Yet what bugs me, is every time oil goes up per barrel, gas prices go up the same day. Yet when it goes down, the reciprical doesn't happen so fast. Gas is at 4.09 a gallon for regular here. Yet when oil was at it's current price per barrel, it was around 3.59 a gallon. I know times are hard, there is a great article in the current Street Rodder magazine about the cost of gas affecting the hot rod industry in many ways.
I also don't buy the argument about gas companies just making a living. If it's so tough for them, then they shouldn't be making record profits at the cost of the consummers who support their buisness. When big buisness goes south, the government bails them out, when they make record profits price gouging consummers, they get defended(and why not, their lobbiest grease heavy the political palms, when the getting is good). It's a codependant cycle that crosses party lines. All politicians are corupt absolutely. If you think otherwise, then you probably elected them!:eek:
Hotrodpaint wrote:No I'm afraid Sheep is not the Word. Lemming is!:LOL: :LOL:Quote:
"Sheep" is the word.
jyandgirl wrote:No slaughter houses. Just the cliff's and the water below.:eek: :LOL: :LOL:Quote:
If we all act like sheep then we should expect to be led to the slaughter house.
They have to sell off the refined product they bought at higher prices before the price goes down. However reciprocity does not apparently apply here and they are happy to value any oil stock in hand at the higher value. I don't like it maybe but I think that's simple capitalism in action.Quote:
Originally Posted by stovens
Kitz
You're right. Most gas stations are relatively small operations. The gas they are selling today is accumulating the cash to buy the next load. Some places limit the retail markup to 10 cents per gallon or less. Usually, a station is informed of the price changes far in advance. If the station owner gets told that his next load is going to be 5 cents higher, he immediately goes into a panic trying to raise the cash for the next load....so he raises prices. Think about a little guy owner getting a 5000 gallon load he has to pay $4 a gallon for....usually within 10 days. Kitz is right, when the price goes down, he is sitting on $4 gas but his next load is going to be cheaper so he gets a profit. With credit card fees and such, a true gas station is a rare animal since there is not much money in it.
7-11 stores used to (in the 1980's) generate $50 a day in profit....a fantastically high number (not sure what they generate anymore corrected for inflation). I would be surprised if a small gas station generates that much in today's dollars. They gotta sell air fresheners, beer, porno,
and the other good stuff to pay the overhead. At $50 a day profit times 365 days a year times 12000 stores, 7-11 made 219 million that year!! OOPS, excessive profits, let's let the government take it away and give to the tree foundation!!!
mike in tucson
[QUOTE=Bob Parmenter]This is becoming one of those endless loop discussions my friend (jeez now I'm starting to sound like one of your senators:rolleyes: )
Those so called "record" profits still only work out to about 10 cents on the dollar, which for an industrial company is roughly average. It's just that they handle a LOT of dollars. Anyone who has ever run their own business can appreciate how non exciting a 10% net profit is.
You have to figure a typical bussiness owners profit of 10% of 5 grand is not near as pretty as an oil companies 10% of 100 million. I would love 10% of the 100 MIL. Face it we are being over charged no matter how subliminally anyone tries to convince me we are not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Shillady
Ya know what Don? I'd take a whole lot of "internation humiliation instead of all the wasted lives in Iraq and Afghanistan.... Lives lost for lies... plain and simple....
Is "international humiliation" better or worse then the international hatred of the US and it's bully of the block policy that we have to endure now????
Not defending Carter, he was an idiot... Though during the Carter years of high interest I was fortunate to be in a position to have a bit of $$$$ that grew well with the high interest.....
Bush is an idiot, pure and simple.... Can't think of a single advancement in diplomacy in the last 8 years... Just lots of dead Americans and and Administration so steeped in lies, deceptions, and scandel that Nixon and his gang look like chior boys in comparison..... Heck, another LBJ and "the great society" would be a welcome relief.....
As for Uncle Bob's post, if I had to settle for 10 cents return for every dollar spent, I'd have been out of business years ago... The only reason the profits are in the billions is because us sheep, lemmings, or whatever term you choose just buy so dang much fossil fuel the oil companies couldn't spend it fast enough to get down to a break even financial position.....
Anyway, let's clutter the whole dang world with oil wells and totally eliminate the incentive to develp alternatives...... Heck, it's the next generations problem anyway.....
I agree with Dave that our salvation is going to be developing alternative energy sources. We've made some inroads with hybrid cars and solar and wind power, but we really need to step up the pace if we are going to flourish as we have in past years.
We will still continue to buy gas for stuff that can't easily be retrofitted (like our hot rods :D ) but if our day to day demand for most normal needs gets assisted by alternative means, it will help out tremendously.
Don
My guess would be you've never run a business of any substance. Would you also want the operating expenses and risk of a 100 mil business? There're two sides to every ledger. Did you have the same feeling about the oil companies in the late '80s and early '90s when they were operating at a loss, going bankrupt as Texaco did? Just asking.......Quote:
Originally Posted by mooneye777
As for believing in alternatives, there's absolutely nothing preventing anyone from adopting any other energy source today than gasoline. Many of the wishful thinking technologies are even supported by tax dollars extorted from those of us who are in the half of the population that still pays federal tax, and even with those subsidies I bet you'd change your mind in a hot hurry if you tried to switch to one of those at it's actual cost. Government will never "create", "invent", or "dream up" a viable alternative, only when a genuinely economically competitive alternative not requiring subsidy shows up will gasoline be replaced. Otherwise, if you believe in that stuff you don't realize you're being conned.......................even though you (whoever you are) believe that the evil oil companies are conning you.
PRICELESS!!!!:3dSMILE:Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Shillady
Sure, I said electric cars and electrolysis for hydrogen are OK but as Don and Dave both said we need to have a transition plan. So far only Paris Hilton is in favor of compromise to develop all forms of energy, although I think McCain also said that. I have been sensitized by contact with idealistic undergraduates who button hole me on campus who only want "Clean Energy", no nuclear, no coal, no petroleum, nothing but wind and solar power and it is not here yet! Sadly there is very little compromising in Congress, especially with the die hard Environmentalists. So yeah, let's develop all forms of energy. Hey I swapped out a 2.73 ratio ring gear from a '74 Maverick from the previous "gas shortage warning" for a 3.55 ratio with an R700 OD to get both low gear and OD with a more modern set up, so yes the Auto Mfgrs. fumbled the opportunity for fuel efficiency over and over. I just think at this point in time/history it is very foolish to hold out for an idealistic set of power sources which are not here yet when winter is coming and fuel oil will be needed as well as potential heating gas for Europe now coming through a valve in Georgia. How about that money that is going out of the country for oil when we have it right here. As Bob said, we are going around and around here and as Don said apparently we are not going to change any minds so I will just hide in the garage until it is too cold and then hope Santa Claus will bring me a COLA for next year's fixed income. One ray of hope is that the birth rate in the US was the highest in a long time and maybe this secondary baby boom will save Soc. Security to pay for the earlier baby boom. Dave if you need some humiliation check with a guy named Mahmud AHMADI-NEJAD, he can really dish it out! I agree it's only words but it reminds me of the PM of Britain coming back from a meeting with Hitler in 1940 promising "Peace in our time!" Sadly I do think there are some folks out there beyond much hope of diplomacy and if they get the upper hand we will be more glad than ever about the protection of two oceans, but then are there threats within? Sure we should negotiate, but while we talk they are probably purifying more U-235? What was Pres. Reagan's phrase, "Trust but Verify" or something like that? Maybe the garage is the safest place, it's wood and will burn quickly! Now back to that blue oval with the unnamed V8.
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
Well said Don and the PM you refer to as you probably already know was Neville Chamberlain. Had it not been for Churchhill and FDR we'd most likely be speaking German. I, for one, have no intention of speaking "Farsi" or any other towel head language.
Mahmud AHMADI-NEJAD, I believe he's with Al Qaeda.... Not Iraq... Nothing, absolutely nothing can justify the loss of American lives and Iraqi civilians in Iraq. The war should be with the bad guys, not Iraq.... Where is the "oil profits will pay for the war" guy now???? We haven't won anything in Afghanistan and now have no troops to send there cuz Cowboy George is too busy fighting an unwinnable war in Iraq....
I'm no idealist, doubt anything could ever totally replace gasoline. Now if we were to drill in this country and all that oil stayed in this country and didn't just get sold on the world market freeing up more places to drill would be fine, along with the oil rights we have now that don't have any new derricks showing up.... Well, other then North Dakota.....a number of folks up there have taking up raising oil instead of wheat and are quite wealty now....
Better get the draft going again if "the old white haired guy" gets in, and we can't afford the "gentlemen from Illinois". Think we're just flat screwed. This archaic two party system where all the major players are bought and paid for by special interest is going to be our downfall.... We have met the enemy, and it is us!!!!
very well said Dave.
I think we are all in for a ride whoever wins the election. Remember Dave the only difference between Obama and Osama is just a little bs. :LOL:
Kitz
We should save this topic until winter comes so that the CHR members that live in the cold climates could heat their houses/shops with the heat that the discussion generates!! People could post messages with outlandish theories and weird political views (both directions), the members could read those posts and get really hot....we could help the energy crisis but we sure as heck would add to global warming...
mike in tucson
Ditto,on that Kitz.Quote:
Originally Posted by kitz
As we see all the under developed countries start to show their hands after being proped up by the USA Govt.and Our Buisnesses,they two want a bigger piece of the action.
Rough roads ahead regardless as to who goes in the White House.
My sympathy goes out to the present and future working class of people that have made this country what it is only to see it become a battered society.
Sounds a bit negative but just my Senior observation.
Got this as an email from a friend this morning, seems to sum it all up
THIS IS ALSO THE STORY OF OUR ENTIRE
UNITED STATES CONGRESS MENTALITY
________________________________________
A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.
On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate
the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior
management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.
Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering,
while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing.
Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting
company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.
They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat,
while not enough people were rowing.
Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another
loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally
reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and
1 assistant superintendent steering manager.
They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the
boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality
First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There
was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra
vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed
to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled
into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters.
The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe,
sold all the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment.
The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.
The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish
the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all
canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was
out-sourced to India .
Sadly, the End.
Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years
moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make
money paying American wages.
TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US .
The last quarter's results:
TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.
Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses.
IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY
The American auto industry is a dying business. It all started in 1938 when GM caved in to union pressure and has continued to decline. In the 1960'sthe American auto industry was so arrogant, they ignored the new wave of "foreign" cars and allowed the Japanese to establish a beachhead, especially in California. US Auto was building crap and people liked the reliable Japanese cars...and they got pretty good mileage since they had little engines.
Now we are seeing third generations of families own foreign cars.... just like the old days, Dad owned a Buick made son want a Buick, the younger set rode in their parents car and their grand parents car and both were Asian. Why would they consider anything else?
Also, the American auto industry knowledge base has either retired and moved to Arizona and Florida to spend their retirement in an Indian casino OR the younger talent has jumped ship to work for the Asian manufacturers.... in California, many Japanese cars are designed by Americans with talent. Even if the industry tried to revive, the knowledge base is so decimated, it could not support a American auto industry boom.
Personally, I do not own or drive foreign cars. Never will. I am solidly pro American brand.....but I am also a dying breed.
mike in tucson
Here is a little sumtin someone had to say about the whole thing.
http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/story_of_stuff.php
In reply to are we really that stupid ,the answer is no ,we have been misinformed ,lied to and are caught up in a story or a cover up ,where we get blamed for all the problems ,instead of those who are to blame ,simply because we think we have no alternative or have been mislead into believing we have no options.
Well, if we bought into all that misinformation, then we're probably even more stupid then I originally thought!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnlee28
I'll stick with my original contention that NOTHING is going to be accomplished until term limits are instituted.... If all "the good old boys" are sent home to get a real job, maybe there will be some incentive for some progressive thinking people who actually want to solve a problem rather then just blame the other party.....
And the media!!!! If anyone makes a move towards comprimising with the other party to work towards a tenable solution, they are instantly accused of flip flopping!!!!! What a bunch of crap!!!!! IMO comprimise is essential for any democracy to survive!!!! The idiots in DC are allegedly educated people, why in heck can't they use their brain for something besides the usual CYA crap and back a good plan that shows promise of positive results regardless of which party proposed it???? Seems to me that most have become so polarized to one extreme or the other it has become impossible for them to meet in the middle......
Liberals, Conservatives, Democrats, Republicans are all just stupid, archaic catagories with each group stereotyping the other as "extreme".... and spend so much time fighting with "the other side" that none have the time or interest to search out the neutral ground and actually do something that would be good for THE ENTIRE COUNTRY!!!!! Maybe it's just too late and we won't see anything good come out of our government until this one totally collapses and the new one starts......
Dave, I have been off-line due to thunderstorms here this afternoon, but the name I referred to is the name of the President of Iran who just happens to look a lot like one of the leaders who held the US Embassy folks hostage in Iran. I do agree with you that the hole in the bucket is that US oil is put on the international market. As far as taxes go if the US has to go back to Cold War competition that means a lot more taxes whoever is President and yes the Armed Forces will have to be enlarged somehow. That is what gets me so annoyed in that the Environmentalists are so idealistic that they ignore the immediate global political situation. Oil is a geopolitical commodity that is being used against the US because we have not kept up production as world demand increases, and holy cow look how much money we are sending to other countries to buy oil! So as you say why can't a few folks compromise and develop all forms of energy as a matter of national security? Gee, even Paris Hilton figured that out!
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
No amount of international embarrassment over the Iran hostages would be as great as the loss of life of US troops in Iraq.....
Digging for oil in any US area will do nothing for the oil supply today...though perhaps it did influence the lower price of crude... though if it did then some folks were correct when they said that market speculation was the only reason for the price increase in the first place... Seeing as how the oil experts claim that any new oil found today won't hit the market for 5 to 7 years.....
Anyway, comprimise in Congress??? Ain't gonna happen with the group that's in there now....they're already bought and paid for...
Dave Your talkin sense here. We are all po'd about the price of gas, whether conservative or liberal. We are all feel these hard economic times. Nobody is happy about the Flux in oil prices, especially folks on fixed incomes.
Don S. your also right that some compromises and interem power development is necessary to get us to a point further down the road where we can get off oil dependace, foriegn or domestic. I just don't believe drilling is the answer. Nuclear, yes! Coal (not so thrilled about, but yes, new facilities are much better with waste and co2 and co emissions) Hydroelectric yes!
But our focus needs to be on renewable and clean forms of energy now. If gas goes down again, people will start using more. It is our nature as a democratic nation to better our lives and make them more comfortable.
Whether you believe in global warming or not, lowering co2 emissions is a health issue. For those of you in big cities you already deal with spare the air days, where you morning sunrise is stinted with a brown nasty haze!
My conservative friends and my liberal friends both agree, we want the same thing in the end, though we may disagree with how to get there.
Growing up in the 60's and 70's with my first gas crisis during Carter's administration, I learned a valuable lesson. Carter advocated energy conservation in many ways. Including water usage, solar passive and active, wind energy, etc. Many people hate Carter for stuff already mentioed here, for huge mortgage interest rates, where you couldn't afford a home,etc....
But he put ideas into place, that were dismissed once the energy crisis was over.
The point is if we don't start what is expensive and costly and painfull now, it won't be any cheaper or easier, ten years from now! I'm not talking gas for the hot rod, I'm talking how we go about leading the way to a future with breathable air. Someone has to do it, China won't, It's time for us as a nation to step up to the plate and focus on the reality of where we are headed, and instead of focusing on the me generation, think about our kids lives and grand kids.
We also got to stop the stupidity that continues to thrive. Look at Las Vegas. 10 million people in the middle of the hotest place in the US, where nature never meant them to live, running Neon lights 24/7, air conditioners 24/7, water pumped from everywhere to feed them! This is insanity! You want to put something out there, how about a nice big solar array!
I just think we need to think ahead, not in short term oil exploration, but long term power solutions.
Nobody is looking far ahead right now, because we the voters are screaming for solutions that affect us today. And with good reason. But this short sightedness is the equivelant of patching the levy where it breaks!
What Dave says is mostly true but leads to the conclusion that we can't do anything about it. Well we can't do much but we ought to try. I find if I e-mail a carefully worded and respectful message to my congressman several thing happen. First you should get some sort of thank you note probably in the form of a letter. Next you will probably get a letter requesting funds. Then if you do contribute some relatively small amount you will get another letter requesting more funds. At the second round I remind myself about my own income and figure I have said about all I can afford to say, but this leads to two comments: Congressman do listen to some extent because of their short two year cycle and a person has to realize when to stop donating. If you make your point with a message and small contribution, I figure that is about all you can do, but that is better than being a lemming!
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
I just think we need to think ahead, not in short term oil exploration, but long term power solutions.
Nobody is looking far ahead right now, because we the voters are screaming for solutions that affect us today. And with good reason. But this short sightedness is the equivelant of patching the levy where it breaks!
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" "No matter where you go, there you are!" Steve.
And that, in a nutshell, says it all. You're bang on the mark there Steve.
Forget all of that! Have you heard the cost of NITRO???
I'm gonna drill a nitro well! $$$ :-)~
I was at the Autolite Nationals last month and we heard a guy from a TF team mention $1800 for 55 gallon barrel. Sounds really high to me. Could that be right?
Keith...
Middle of June it was $41 a gallon.(second hand info, not verified). The Chinese have ceased production during the Olympic Games and supplies are getting short, so the price could be quite a bit higher than that now.
The Department of Homeland Security has, I believe, limited any one drum to 400 lbs, which would be 38 gallons. This is second hand info, so I'm not sure of it's validity. If anyone has better info, I'd certainly be interested in hearing it.