i have lost it???

i have a small machine shop and am having a very hard time dealing with customers some are great and some i like to hang. some want me to DO WHAT EVERY YOU THINK IT NEEDs :HMMM: then i tell them how much that is then they do not want it done ? well they do i think they just want it for less. or find a better parts for less money .when it just can not be done :whacked: but i am 20.00 hour less then any one in town? my work is just as good if not better . i would love to help them but my over head went up with more machine and the hot tank and jet wash soap and fuel to get to the shop. i just can not do it cheap any more.i take pride in my work that i do but after dealing with some of them and trying to do a job right and not put any time in it so they do not have a bill???? just to save them a buck. i just hate every thing i loved to do :mad:

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

i have a small machine shop and am having a very hard time dealing with customers some are geat and some i like to hang. some want me to DO WHAT EVERY YOU THINK IT NEED :HMMM: then i tell them how much that is then they do not want it done ? well they do i think they just want it for less. or find a better parts for less money .when it just can not be done :whacked: but i am 20.00 hour less then any one in town? my work is just as good if not better . i would love to help them but my over head went up with more machine and the hot tank and jet wash soap and fuel to get to the shop. i just can not do it cheap any more.i take pride in my work that i do but after dealing with some of them and trying to do a job right and not put any time in it so they do not have a bill???? just to save them a buck. i just hate every thing i loved to do :mad:

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Pat,I hear you.
Just wait to you have to do work for friends or family.

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Originally Posted by erik erikson

Pat,I hear you.
Just wait to you have to do work for friends or family.

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i have been there many times evey one s your friend when you can build good running engines they just do not want to help pay the bills:mad:

There is no easy answer Pat.... Been on my own for dang near 30 years now and there is no correct answer that fits every occasion.... What I do know is you have to make money doing what your doing. I've had a big shop with 5 guys full time, 3 part time all the way to what I'm doing now, just me in a 3 car garage. Both have their good and bad points. The best part is now when I make my house payment and pay the utility bill my overhead is covered...... However all my "friends" think that now that I'm working in my garage I should be able to do their stuff for free..... They also like to hang out, "borrow" hardware and parts, suck up all the coffee and tease my dog!!!! When you give sponsorship to one guy (either $$$ or labor), then everyone things you should give them the same thing..... If you don't give nothing to anyone, then your and ***hole, so no matter what you do you're wrong!!!!

With a few exceptions, I've quit doing work for customers. I build what I like, the way I like it, and put it up for sale at my price..... Worst part of this scenario is having to fork out a bunch of $$$$$ to build the car, then waiting for a buyer to come along that actually has the bucks to buy it.... Both good and bad there.....

I guess you have to do enough work to pay the bills, then determine how much more you want to do after that.... Advertising is tough in a one man shop, it's very expensive then if it works really well you end up turning people away....

Like you, I still believe that quality work at a fair price will eventually bring you the rewards you deserve.... It's just tough trying to keep everything paid til you get there.... There are some inexpensive ways to attract new customers... take that Goat to all the local car shows and when the boys or eyeballing the monster engine give them a business card....you never know who is going to be at these events and what their business needs are.... Make a visit of parts stores in your area, talk with the manager and maybe offer him a "spiff" for any customers he can send your way needing machine work... offer an engine for sale, like a plain jane 350, for sale in the local ad papers and Craig's list.... If it's not what the guy wants he might still call or stop by to talk about his needs....

As for the "hangers" who like to eat up your time figuring prices and building "pretend engines" for them that they could never afford anyway, give them a broom or a dirty filthy block to scrape guck off of and tell them you can sit and talk about their stuff at break time but right now you have work to get done..... They usually leave, but if not you get a bit of free house cleaning done!!!! Whatever it takes you have to educate them that friendship is friendship and business is business.....

thanks dave. i just need to vent i have the work just can not get it out fast enough to keep ahead of the bills .today was a bad day getting in two offshore blown big blocks that the guy just piss me right off i have fix so much of his stuff over the years that was screw up but good a long list of the best of the best shops.then it comes back to me to fix it ,i never hit him hard .i told him my rate per hour and started the crying crap told him to go back to the boat yard and let them fix them would like the jobs but the money will not be right and will have to deal with his BS life is just to short for all the crap

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

thanks dave. i just need to vent i have the work just can not get it out fast enough to keep ahead of the bills .today was a bad day getting in two offshore blown big blocks that the guy just piss me right off i have fix so much of his stuff over the years that was screw up but good a long list of the best of the best shops.then it comes back to me to fix it ,i never hit him hard .i told him my rate per hour and started the crying crap told him to go back to the boat yard and let them fix them would like the jobs but the money will not be right and will have to deal with his BS life is just to short for all the crap

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Hey Pat, not a problem... I've thrown people's stuff right out the door of the shop for less reason.... If you decide you want to do all the work for free, let me know I can keep you real busy!!!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: Nothing worse then offering a guy a decent rate, and have him whine about it!!!! My experience with people like that is that if you did it for free and donated the parts they'd still complain.... Doesn't sound like you lost anything there.......

i find may theshold for crap is alot less as i get older.and i do not have any problems telling them the way it is going to work when it in my shop, i thinking at the end of the day there will be less in my shop this week oh well

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

i find may theshold for crap is alot less as i get older.and i do not have any problems telling them the way it is going to work when it in my shop, i thinking at the end of the day there will be less in my shop this week oh well

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Oh well..... Sounds like you got rid of a tire kicker anyway... I've never seen any reason to have someone around the shop or to do any of his work if all he does is ruin my day every time he shows up.... Heck, at least you have room and time for a real customer now!!!!!

and besides that, it's still snowing.................:CRY: :CRY: :CRY: :CRY: :CRY: :CRY: :CRY: :CRY: :CRY: :CRY:

Pat, post this sign above the door.......

PICK ANY TWO
1.Good
2.Fast
3.Cheap

One time when I was working for one company we needed to sue someone in California and we were in Pennsylvania. Someone recommended this one Attorney to us so we called him and discussed the suit. He billed us $ 500 for the conversation we had on the phone! :eek: The President of our company thought that was outrageous so he called the Lawyer to complain. The Lawyer had a very simple comeback, he said " Gene, I know a lot of very inexpensive Attorneys I can put you in touch with, would you like some phone numbers?"

He made his point, he felt he was worth it (he ended up being pretty effective in our suit) and he wasn't going to lower his price. Good sometimes costs more but is usually worth it in the end.

Don

The thing that griped me second most (before I sent all my customers a "to hell with it I quit" letter) happened to me three times. That was having somebody call me to his shop (or hangar) to evaluate a job and bid on it if I decided I wanted to tackle it.

So, after I bid on the work and the price is agreed on, he says "Fine. Go ahead and do it".

After the work is finished and has passed inspection, THEN the turkey tries to dicker me down on the price.

I have been known to become very unpleasant in that situation and use language that properly raised young(?) men like me don't ordinarily resort to.

Of course, first on my list of things that made me go and check to see if my hand guns were in proper working order is the dead-beat who didn't pay me at all. Fortunately, those instances were rare. In a posting on this subject several months back I was crying because an outfit owed me nearly $1,800 dollars and wouldn't pay, or return my calls or answer my second notices. Don (Itoldyouso) told me I should get a collection agency on it.

Don, I hope I thanked you for that advice because I found a guy that even I didn't like, and he delivered! His fee was 30%, but twelve hundred is sure a lot better than nothing. Thanks again, Don.

Hang in there, Pat. Since I retired several of my customers have told me that I could have and should have charged more for my services, and I wouldn't have lost any business at all for doing so.

Now is a heck of a time to find that out!


Jim

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

thanks dave. i just need to vent i have the work just can not get it out fast enough to keep ahead of the bills .today was a bad day getting in two offshore blown big blocks that the guy just piss me right off i have fix so much of his stuff over the years that was screw up but good a long list of the best of the best shops.then it comes back to me to fix it ,i never hit him hard .i told him my rate per hour and started the crying crap told him to go back to the boat yard and let them fix them would like the jobs but the money will not be right and will have to deal with his BS life is just to short for all the crap

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Pat

I have been involved in the offshore industry for years and I can tell you that the guys involved in that arena can be difficult at best

The old saying applied well here " how do you make a few freinds (and dollars) in the offshore industry? Start out with a Whole lot of friends (and dollars)"

If I were building Sears quality rebuilt engines,I'd worry about charging sears prices. You build an engine that makes good power and holds up to it with reasonable care, then my friend you are in a small circle and should feel free to charge for it. Don't even think twice about it. Hank

I always charged a fair price for good work. If you work too cheap your reputation suffers.

The one question I always asked the "whiners" was, how come there's never enough time or money to do it right, but always enough to do it over?

Many times the customers I lost to a lower price were back six months later to have the low cost alternative made right.

Stick to your guns, if your work is good you'll come out ahead in the long run.

well thanks everyone.yes i think dave and some other hit on it my shop is not the hi rent look that demands the big time money look no waiting room or flashy store front .smaller shop but ? i have a long list of engines and other work. i do not think anyone has said i was not worth it? i have some very good runners out there . i try to keep the shop looking clean . but the cost of doing this stuff has to go up or i can not do any thing for anyone and i will lose my shop thats just the way it is .i know that if it is cheap it can not be good and if it coast more it right???? i think this guy that has the boat engines is this way. after someone gets the big money he hauls has stuff to me and i make it work so many times the list is long . but now i think he just thinks i should do him a favor . he giving me the job i am the best around ?YES.. but maybe not really he may think? i still think he.. thinks the hi rent way.. but i demonstrated to him he was wrong so many time my stuff works.. i want to be paid a far price. it is he wants great work and it for free .i work at a big boat yard for 3 years i work on as many as 4 boats or more a day. no one got the deal .no cash no splash

Pat, my favorite saying to a customer is I didn't buy it,build it,nor break it,I'm just trying to fix it for you. I learned a long time ago not to eat chit from any customer. If I get someone in here that comes off with well so & so will do it for this much,I flat out tell em well ya better take it down there. Few things I learned is if ya try to save any body any money it will bite ya in the butt no matter what and if ya give em a break once they'll expect it every time. Never ever charge less than your competitors and never bad mouth your competitors.Make sure when it goes out your door that its right. I guess what it boils down to is you hafta have nuff respect in yourself and confidence in your work that it doesn't matter what size or how cosmetically appealling your shop is to demand the same amount of money the big guys want. If ya do good work,collect a premium price,never over extend yourself ( 40-50 hours a week is enough) and don't take no crap (but ya can't be an A-hole) I'll almost bet ya that ya won't even need your Yellow page ad after awhile.

i know that i am not in any of you guys league when it comes to auto work but i do try to make a little cash here and there. Had a young man come up to me in my yard from my neighbors yard. he asked me how much i would charge to change oil and check the spark plugs. I told him $20.00 plus oil and filter and the cost of plugs if i found a problem. He told me that wal-mart would charge less. I told him that wal-mart was 20 minutes away and enjoy. my neighbor came over 2 days later and told me that wal-mart damaged his engine because they forgot to screw the oil filter all the way in and the oil leaked out around the seal. I said that he got what he paid for. My neighbor asked if I could fix it. I told him to tell his friend to take it to walmart and have a nice day. I do not understand people. They want to pay the lowest price and then bitch about what kind of service they got for that price. I was always taught that you get what you pay for.

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

well thanks everyone.yes i think dave and some other hit on it my shop is not the hi rent look that demands the big time money look no waiting room or flashy store front .smaller shop but ? i have a long list of engines and other work. i do not think anyone has said i was not worth it? i have some very good runners out there . i try to keep the shop looking clean . but the cost of doing this stuff has to go up or i can not do any thing for anyone and i will lose my shop thats just the way it is .i know that if it is cheap it can not be good and if it coast more it right???? i think this guy that has the boat engines is this way. after someone gets the big money he hauls has stuff to me and i make it work so many times the list is long . but now i think he just thinks i should do him a favor . he giving me the job i am the best around ?YES.. but maybe not really he may think? i still think he.. thinks the hi rent way.. but i demonstrated to him he was wrong so many time my stuff works.. i want to be paid a far price. it is he wants great work and it for free .i work at a big boat yard for 3 years i work on as many as 4 boats or more a day. no one got the deal .no cash no splash

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Hey Pat, if you do me up a 632 for freebie, I'l say nice things about you forever and ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I promise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D :D :D

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Hey Pat, if you do me up a 632 for freebie, I'l say nice things about you forever and ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I promise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D :D :D

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well i have done that :Dthis is nothing new i been at this game for a long time if it a bbc chevy i am the guy most around here come to if not god help you i have done some nice stuff for this guy a dual turbo v6 custom grand natonal i did alot of work to all glass but the back half and re did the car when his builder use the car for a ladder and climb over the roof and dent it to hell a very nice black paint job :mad: re did it give him a even better paint job the second time a round .the first one was very nice to.and did get this car to fire when no one could they tried every thing but did not have the wires right out of the coil packs car was down in detroit at a shop for over many months that knew alot about buick V6 cars:rolleyes: fixed his Zo6 vette when they recam it and bent all the valves in the cnc heads and the pushrod were not right size for the t&d shaft rocker arms or any thing they did .but i fix it the list is long i have help him on GM show car wheels so i not new with him i guess i was thinking back i think i should not have to take crap from him i proven my self to many times any time he thinks he found some one better it comes back and i fix it:LOL:

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Originally Posted by HWORRELL

Pat, my favorite saying to a customer is I didn't buy it,build it,nor break it,I'm just trying to fix it for you. I learned a long time ago not to eat chit from any customer. If I get someone in here that comes off with well so & so will do it for this much,I flat out tell em well ya better take it down there. Few things I learned is if ya try to save any body any money it will bite ya in the butt no matter what and if ya give em a break once they'll expect it every time. Never ever charge less than your competitors and never bad mouth your competitors.Make sure when it goes out your door that its right. I guess what it boils down to is you hafta have nuff respect in yourself and confidence in your work that it doesn't matter what size or how cosmetically appealling your shop is to demand the same amount of money the big guys want. If ya do good work,collect a premium price,never over extend yourself ( 40-50 hours a week is enough) and don't take no crap (but ya can't be an A-hole) I'll almost bet ya that ya won't even need your Yellow page ad after awhile.

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thanks HWORRELL i do not take to much crap i can fly off the handle if i get rub the wrong way and told customers to get there $hit. the deal is i work for my self because i can not work 40to50 hours a week .i will not get in it much but i have chorionic pain i can not work normal hours with out a lot of drugs

Hey Pat, if you do me up a 632 for freebie, I'l say nice things about you forever and ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I promise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL Dave i just want have that .

Working at Dealers running body shop and writing service and nite for xtra bucks i was beat on more then a boxer. John Q public just dont get the meaning sometimes they want to save but have it brand new .

Pat my hats off to you for standing on the front lines . Did it allmost 9 yrs and went back to factory work so i could yell at the boss LOL .

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

i have a small machine shop and am having a very hard time dealing with customers some are great and some i like to hang. some want me to DO WHAT EVERY YOU THINK IT NEEDs :HMMM: then i tell them how much that is then they do not want it done ? well they do i think they just want it for less. or find a better parts for less money .when it just can not be done :whacked: but i am 20.00 hour less then any one in town? my work is just as good if not better . i would love to help them but my over head went up with more machine and the hot tank and jet wash soap and fuel to get to the shop. i just can not do it cheap any more.i take pride in my work that i do but after dealing with some of them and trying to do a job right and not put any time in it so they do not have a bill???? just to save them a buck. i just hate every thing i loved to do :mad:

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Just tell them to go down the road for a cheaper job. But dont complain when their having trouble. Quality is not cheap!!!

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Originally Posted by BigTruckDriver

Quality is not cheap!!!

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So you met my ex wife did you ?? LOL

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Originally Posted by headlines

So you met my ex wife did you ?? LOL

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:eek: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Pat, I used to tell 'em: "That's the price; you can pay me a straight reasonable price now, or you can pay me to fix the mess up later, and it'll go up 25%."

Everybody (except for one general Contractor) wanted it on the cheap. I set my bids by a basic time and material, plus 10%; I didn't think it was exorbitant, especially considering that the generals or developers that I subbed to were rolling in dough, and I had to scrape just to pay my insurance and bonds. I finally got to where I'd tell 'em what I said above. Quite a few times, they'd go with some other sub, then come to me hat in hand a while later; but, I quit letting them beat on me.