Clearing my mind

I know there is a thread on snobs but one would have to converse to be labeled that right.

Well some here know i'm building a 31 A Sedan and i visited another site yep i did and i'm learning , I do go read because there are some great idea's to be used and the pic's are model specific . . This site I visited builds Traditional , Rat Rods and Bobbers I was seeking pics of some steering setup for my model year . Well this site being loaded with 28 to 31 Ford A models i figured BAM i would see at least 20 or 30 pic's of steering from the column to the rack or box . I did have one member ask what i useing in the front suspension and steering when i explained what it was never heard back . Guess it need's to be a Corvair or Vega box to get noticed there. Many type's of machinery will steer a car . All i was looking for was some idea's on how linkage was set up in some and supported . I'm a sight type person and a pic does give me a thousand words and a million idea's . Oh over 160 people did look at it but no interest sparked i guess.

You know i have asked all type's of questions here and not once has a member or even quite a few not responded with some idea's or pic's to help me out and many others. What is it with the mine is different . I grew up loving cars (cept Imports) I bleed blue but enjoy any car that has been built or modified to any extent. My theory is build what makes you happy it's your money and your car . I guess what I'm saying is you guys are great and even though i will visit there my questions will be asked here for the answer's and hopefully correct me if there doing it wrong or unsafe . .

Guess i will have to go as Bond, James Bond to the Pile Up to see some of the way things are done . Glad i only live 20 minute's may not be worth the gas for any longer drive . I have TATTOO"S

Well what did Jerry Mcguire call it .


KUDO"S to CHR may the site be with you.

Bobby, it is strange to say this, but there really aren't a lot of choices out there for steering boxes that adapt to something like a Model A. Oh sure, there are hundreds of different boxes from lots of different cars and trucks, but to get one with the right mounting and pitman arm placement is really tough.

Dan is wrestling with that right now on his '29, and he keeps asking me "what boxes are out there to use?" He is surprised that the choices are so limited. We have tried a traditional favorite, the '56 Ford F100 box (I have one in my '27 and in my '39.......they are good units) but his starter is on the drivers side and will hit it. We have kicked around a Vega cross steer setup, but he can't mount a panhard bar because his front end is already chromed and he can't mess it up by welding a bracket to it, and the car is too low anyway.

He had been using a BMW model 2002 steering box as a cowl setup in the first generation of the build, but it takes up too much foot room for his layout. So what we have finally decided on is a Flaming River reversed Corvair box just like Don and I are running. He wasn't nuts about that choice as he isn't convinced they are a really good box, but it is at least adaptable.

Other boxes have been mentioned on some forums, like some Dodge car and truck units, and some even use the old VW Bus box, although they are a little on the light side and getting tough to find. Some people use the later Ford (like 39-48)car steering box and turn it on it's side to put the pitman arm out to the side of the frame.

There are some people who adapt rack and pinion steering to a straight axle car, but I am not a fan of this system. My Buddy had a T bucket with a rack mounted to the frame, and I drove the car one time............one time was enough! :eek: Not saying all of them are like that, but mounting them to the frame invites bump steer and mounting them to the axle has it's issues too. I know some will say they have them and love them, but this is just my opinion.

So, what you have to decide first is if you want cross steering or one where the arm runs parallel to the frame. Once you figure that out you just have to see what boxes you can make work within your space constraints and frame layout.

Don

Just keep building what you want Bobby!!!! It's worked for me for a lot of years!!!!!! At least no one has ever convinced me that all the cars have to look just alike when they're done!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Just keep building what you want Bobby!!!! It's worked for me for a lot of years!!!!!! At least no one has ever convinced me that all the cars have to look just alike when they're done!!!!!!

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That's what this is all about! Being different! If not, we would all have the same butt ugly car, color, same type house, etc! :LOL:

Do what you want, it's yours, not mine, I might like, or want it, or I might not, just do it safely!!! ;) and the heck what most people think, because you like it. :p ;)
Please yourself first. :D
(I know you did it safely)

Pat

Willl be a kool A when finished. Checked your photo album. Interesting in how the A changed into a Mustang......:LOL:
The Stroker has a saying about imports. Imports are like tampons........every pussy needs one.






:toocool:

Guys yep i found out this site is very diverse in knowledge and car buids . Just what someone needs when involed in this hobby .

Denny its only the body and frame thats a 31 everything else is just what your talking about and experienced in . Lotsa different ways to get things done .


Don i have the Heidts IFS with rack & pinion and was looking for some configurations on the steering couplers and universals . Really looking for the way some has routed it around there exhaust and other obsticles that may be there . Coming of the steering column and routing down on the frame or up higer with supports placed in various places . I've seen some drawings and illustrations but pics sure work better . Most pics are of passenger side of engine i found and not many of driver side showing the steering .


Dave and Hemi excactly my thoughts and that my build will be mine . With all your idea's LOL :D


Colorado Mustang parts are what was laying around here LOL but one thing the swinging pedals from a 94 are very tight spaced and fit well . Plus is the option of cable clutch is built in with the T_5 . I did have to figure out here with the pedals what would work . This is part of the different being a all ford build . So far the column out of a 82 Silverado is the only Chevy part and i'm still looking for a Ford of some type before it's all said and done.

don and his son have son killer pics of some front ends they made on their builds maybe you could get them to share????????:D
and yes the tattoo's might get you in , but its really the nipple rings that let folks know you a real HOT RODDER:D:D

heres a couple i have as i was considering a straight axle on my 37
dont know where i got these from they arer just crap i snagged off other sites!!

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...nnert07076.jpg
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...arbuild009.jpg
don if this is yours i will apoligize for posting , i dont think its dodgerodders
as its a different front end..

Bobby,
I saw your request on the HAMB, even opened it up, but your question was Model A and I have a T so I didn't respond. I've got all kinds of T steering pictures. Every car show I went to in the last few years I'd crawl under the Ts and take pictures. I save pictures of T coupes and on this site and other sites just to get ideas on how to build my car. I'm building it the way I want it, ya I take the advise and ideas from them and I don't care what's Traditional or not. I built a 34 Ford back in what a lot of guys call "back in the day", and again I DID IT MY WAY.
I've got many friends on these two sites and have even had the privilage of meeting several in person. Some of us are shy and some not, some have tatoos and some don't, some have short hair and some don't, by brother's Hot Rod is a 69 Chevelle with 400HP, mine happens to be a 26 T coupe with 125 HP. Each one of us are different BUT what we have in common is Cars.
Anyway here's some pictures of steering on a 26/27 T, hey I might even have some of a rack and pinion.

Denny , Tom and FLH these are what im looking for . I know i may not build the exact but i can look at there application and modify what may work for me . I seen those double universals for sale and wondering if i can configure a connection so i will clear the shorty headers on the engine . Really like to keep them and not go to block huggers . I have a chevy column right now , i think there 1 inch center shaft i dont know what Fords are yet . Tom i figured there would be 100 As there considering there theme and you know the T is close enough to this app that even they work .

I dont have as much a chance to visit rod shows and there few in between also . I really do plan on the Pile Up but its not till late in the year .

bluestang67- it's the same clannish crap with the people that are into 100% stock restorations- everybody else is basically evil.

To my dismay the sub-cultures in the car culture are all pretty much at odds mostly because of philosophical differences in the "looks" of the cars. Sad.

Twitch I know that one also in the Mustang side . i mention the mods to the s-code and purist eyes open . I want it to be mine so thats the way it will get done. I"m going to put a superide suspenion it also with r & p but the connection comes preset in it.

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Originally Posted by bluestang67

Twitch I know that one also in the Mustang side . i mention the mods to the s-code and purist eyes open . I want it to be mine so thats the way it will get done. I"m going to put a superide suspenion it also with r & p but the connection comes preset in it.

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Hey Bobby, if they don't like what you're doing to the Mustang, you could always tell them you're going to sell it to me!!!! I've always wanted to lean the windshield posts back a bit, then take some of the arch out of the roof, and..........:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Not to worry Bobby boy, we all take a turn at bat on that stuff. I've ticked off some folks lately by parting out a complete '40 Ford............oh well!

As for your steering. I find it helpful to use some dowel lengths to simulate the shaft. If it gets too "busy" for your minds eye to keep up you can use a couple wraps of duct tape to simulate the universal joints. Play with several locations and length of protrusion beyond the firewall. Don't be afraid to slightly angle the column bottom toward the kick panel area. A small amount won't be too obvious and might give you just that scosh of clearance you might need. Also you can move the column mount to the left a bit since you won't likely have as large a steering wheel as the stocker, without building in discomfort. I'll put up a pic of the hookup on my '36 as it's also a rack arrangement, but it's not much of an apples to apples since my frame is wider, and it's a SBC with huggers, but it might give you a vision to get started with. Remember on those double joints they take extra supports, so you'll need room for that, and need to consider your sense of asthetics.

[QUOTE=Bob Parmenter]Not to worry Bobby boy, we all take a turn at bat on that stuff. I've ticked off some folks lately by parting out a complete '40 Ford............oh well!


Have you ever noticed that the majority of guys who come on with the could of, should of, would of crap very seldom build anything themselves....

And those who complain the loudest about what you do with a car are usually driving their wife's mini-van??????

this might help back in the 70s I built alot off road comp jeep I was using pinto flex steering shafts that solved a lot problems they are super strong and work great 71-72 73 pinto used them check em out

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Originally Posted by ted dehaan

this might help back in the 70s I built alot off road comp jeep I was using pinto flex steering shafts that solved a lot problems they are super strong and work great 71-72 73 pinto used them check em out

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Can't use 'em in NHRA drag racing. They rust from the inside out and can fail at the most innoportune moment.

[QUOTE=Dave Severson
Have you ever noticed that the majority of guys who come on with the could of, should of, would of crap very seldom build anything themselves....

And those who complain the loudest about what you do with a car are usually driving their wife's mini-van??????[/QUOTE]
Hey her van works....ha ha!:D My friend Pete has a wife we call edith, as in archy bungers wife. She is the epidome of a minivan person. Every time Petes up to his neck in a project, it's I need you to do this right now! I keep recogmending taking her on hunting trips, accidents hapen all the time:D

Yup, hunting trips are fun!!!!!

Dave the stang would look good pillars back and the roof lowered a couple inches i have pictured that before .

Bob moving column was a thought . I went with manual steering and never turned one so i dont know what i'm up against or what size wheel I will need for ease of turning . I've been told that the R & P turn fairly nice and the front being light will help.

Ted thanks but i do have a R & P and column just trying to get them together in my app.

I'm one who shakes his head yes with a smile when someone is talking the bs . I was lurking here when i found J Robinsons build of the green machine . I was here a good while learning before i bought the A . I wanted to know if my skill was up to par , I knew i could find all the knowledge here i needed when i stumble . If i read something and dont really get it I'll ask the question again . I've been around cars long enough to figure them out but when it comes to building you need backing from years of know how .

Oh and guys pics are great help . Thanks So Much

Bobby,

I ran an IFS in a 31 A-Bone tudor sedan with a big block. I used some hardwood dowel rods to mock it up. You may need an extra u-joint or double u-joint to make it work, but a little planning will get it done.

The attached photo (not a good one, I'm afraid) shows the linkage in my '34. With pinched frame rails, there wasn't much room. This linkage goes to a Vega box, but the same idea would apply to an IFS. I did it the same way with both.

Oh, and the manual steering rack on my A-bone worked just fine.

Jack good shot i was thinking a double universal off the column would help me clear headers better . Thats the type of idea i was needing they will give up to 70 degree flex but hoping i wouldn't need near that much. The headers will fill the sides off the engine this is pic . I have alot of room on sides but collector is a little large .

More steering pictures, got a lot more but having problems getting them.

A lot of factory short columns have a center shaft with a universal joint on the ends, some smaller than others, easy to pull. Replace the shaft with the length you need, or use as is. Cheap to free at yards I go to. ;)

Pat

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Originally Posted by bluestang67

Dave the stang would look good pillars back and the roof lowered a couple inches i have pictured that before .

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If it's a coupe(64.5-68), you can get away with a 5 inch chop with a forward rake.

The only fastback we did (68) required an extention to the rear sail panels to get the forward rake just right, but was also a 5 inch initial chop.


Bill S.

Bluestang, Here is what ive done right or wrong with my anglia chassis. the first pic shows I ran mine outside the frame
and over to the outside of the headers.

2nd pic shows I mounted the steering box, I think a corvair box on the outsie of the frame also. ironicly I narrowed so much
at the front for the straight axle it had to be there to meet the steering arm.

3rd pic shows I mounted the mid steering joint to the roll cage front upringht tube.

4th pic shows the whole assymbly from the steering box all the way to the steering wheel.

Now that ive sold the 427 chevy motor in the anglia, to be replaced with the 429/460 motor from the mustang.
I will also be changing to a rack at a later date.

And yes if anyone noticed that is an engine stand holding up the basketball rim and pole, I am officially a suburban hillbilly!

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Originally Posted by mrmustang

If it's a coupe(64.5-68), you can get away with a 5 inch chop with a forward rake.

The only fastback we did (68) required an extention to the rear sail panels to get the forward rake just right, but was also a 5 inch initial chop.


Bill S.

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Interesting... Did you pull the windshield back and retain the stock windshield opening????

A hint - no, actually a necessity. Once you get everything set up, don't depend just on the setscrew's friction alone. Drill a hole in the "DD" shaft about 3/16" deep so that the setscrew actually locks into the shaft.

Everyone probably knows that, but just in case . . .

T Y Moon



Best steering ed i have found in a awhile


Jack i figured that part to keep them from slipping . I was thinking about splined shaft . I read where if used you can index them in smaller increments to adjust any slight bind or problem in steering universals . To me I thought if you had the universals indexed proper there would be no bind. Maybe that would depend on the angle uni is at and a little slight adjust may be needed.

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

A hint - no, actually a necessity. Once you get everything set up, don't depend just on the setscrew's friction alone. Drill a hole in the "DD" shaft about 3/16" deep so that the setscrew actually locks into the shaft.

Everyone probably knows that, but just in case . . .

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NHRA rules require that every position except the pinion be welded or through-drilled, bolted and nutted. At the hardened pinion, use a set screw long enough to get a lock nut on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

A hint - no, actually a necessity. Once you get everything set up, don't depend just on the setscrew's friction alone. Drill a hole in the "DD" shaft about 3/16" deep so that the setscrew actually locks into the shaft.

Everyone probably knows that, but just in case . . .

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Reminders are always good! :3dSMILE:

Pat

Denny i'm lost on that one . What do you mean by steering shaft moving .


Tech i read where drilling through will weaken shaft by as much a 30 % . I thought milling a slight flat area or as Jack mentioned drill a indent would be best . To me drilling and bolt seemed alot more secure that is how the factory did it on the column i have . I was looking for a pinch type universal where bolt is on the very edge also .

Hemi your right reminders are a thing that keeps everyone safe and from harm . Use them all the time at work as with everyone else also.

On a street car, I think that drilling a detent hole in the "DD" shaft, and using a hardened setscrew with a lock nut is sufficient. That's how I've always done them.

Bluestang- I hope that ricketyazzed 77 year old frame has been WELL reinforced where we can't see in the photo or will be replaced. Compared to your Mustang that thing might as well be made outta toothpicks. Be Safe!

There is alot of time spent learning to build . Like you i agree i have even seen some frame builds that shouldn't be on the road . I started with a very straight and level frame . Frame is very solid not rusted away and very little pitting on it at all. . Includes webbing inside rails in places and boxing is all 10 ga. inside rails , all v ground with rail and welded solid . This metal is as think as any rail anyone builds and frames that sell in the K"s . When i'm completely finished with it my engine will not twist it . Not saying some 700 HP big block wouldn't but i'll be fine .

There is many a car still on its original old frame running around . In this era the frame was a shock absorber flexing and twisting on the roads before they had brick . The owner or builder has to decide if the frame has too much fatigue and needs to be replaced for safety .

Actually this frame is thicker then any part of the unibody frame on those mustangs . There not as well built as they should be .

Just be careful for the reason that steel quality of those days was not anywhere equal to today's regardless of thickness. I broke a frame and a A arm thick as chassis steel that I thought was impossible.

AAHH Titanic steel i uderstand .