57 Chevy Sedan Advice Needed

A gentleman where i work has offered to sell me a 57 chevy belair 4dr sedan. the chevy is in pretty good shape for being a 51 classic... I've really been thinking about buying it even though it's a 4dr. The gentleman told me he had to have 2,000 dollars for the old chevy... I went friday and looked at it. To my suprize the body was very good condition. Just a few rusty places here and there. The floorpans is the only concern i had. It still has the original 283 but the transmission has replaced with a 350 turbo. As you can tell it hasn't run in a while... The interior will be needing replaced. He told me that he had took off the trim on the passenger side to take care of some surface rust... I know this isn't a 2dr convertible, hardtop or a 2dr post but it's still a 57 chevy. Can anyone tell me the value of a 4dr and if you think this is a good deal?

Hmmm, tough call. At one time 4 doors weren't worth much, but as more desirable body styles either dried up or became more expensive that situation is changing. Also many doors are becoming "cooler" than they once were.

It IS a '57 Chevy and that counts for something. It is a V8 car also. Since it is a NC car it seems to have fared better that it's cousins in other parts of the country might have.........some rust, but not irrepairable. $2000 doesn't buy a whole lot any more, but that might be on the outer limits of what it will fetch IMO. I would think $ 1000 to $ 1500 would make the decision easier.

All that being said, only one thing matters. Do you WANT the car, I mean really WANT it? Just because an old car comes along doesn't necessarily mean it is our dream car. If you don't have a burning desire to have a four door '57 Chevy then it could be $ 200 and it wouldn't matter. The car has to excite something in you to want to build it. All of us have bought cars we only got because they were old and/or cheap, and most of those got sold off again when we realized we had no interest in doing them up.

Don

One of the ways to make this hobby affordable is to find a way to wheel and deal your car account to a higher level. I'm thinkin' parts car here, if the chrome and stainless aren't either pitted or dinged up a lot there's a small fortune in trim on that car that can go to others. Same for parts of the interior. The price might be a bit on the high side for this purpose, as Pops said $500 or so less would make it better. Spend some time on ebay in the closed auctions portion and price out what this stuff goes for, that'll help figure out what there is there in value. I'm less enthusiastic about 4 door "rods", it costs as much or more in both time and money to fix one (compared to a 2 door) and the market value is still way lower. Unless there's some over riding sentimental value, AND you plan on keeping it til you die they're not a good strategy for advancing your hobby position down the road.

Thanks guys for the input.. As you were saying bob the parts could be a small fortune.. The frontend(fenders, hood, bumpers, ect)is the same as a 2dr model..i'll check out ebay to see what these parts might be going for..

build that bad boy up as one cool family cruise car.

I'd say it has parts car written all over it....But it would be nice to negotiate that price down a bit.....The generator with the power steering pump on the back is probably a very much sought after piece....Now if you could find a decent 2 door hardtop to build........Does the car have any other options????

My friends just retored a 57 Bel Air 4 dr last year and it cost a total of around $12,000. The car was an "in the family" one so no pruchase price to consider. They dropped in a new 350 but kept the 283 for later rebuild. Don't worry about parts. EVERYTHING is available. Don't freak when you realize repro stainless rear fender sweeps cost $485 each. This car is not a parts car. It is worth saving. The interior will cost a couple grand to do. That's the least of it.

While 4 doors are not worth what converts or 2-dr. HTs are, the value of the 4 dr. is far above what it will cost you to restore it. For $2,000 it is a steal!

Go to www.NADA.com and you'll see high retail price for a Bel Air 4 dr. reflects $28,100!! Average retail runs $16,700. Tri 5 Chevies are only going to appreciate in value too.

I've been sitting here trying to think of a way to say what needs to be said without making it seem like a personal attack. Well, it's not my intention, but if it comes out that way so be it.

If you went to the NADA site you might have noticed the cover of their hardcopy version has the word "GUIDE" under the logo in letters nearly as big. The word "guide" is not a synonym for "guarantee". But lets go with the flow anyway. In that same guide, the top price for a 2 door Bel Air sedan is just north of $48k.............a full $20,000 above the 4 door. The only difference between the two is the number of doors.....................and market demand. We could get in a long and fruitless discussion about what constitutes a top price car, but suffice to say they are few and far between. And there ain't no way in hell you're going to "restore" a car for $12k. Refurbish maybe, and that's only if you start with a relative cherry, not a back yard derelict like what I see in the pictures above.

But let's go with the flow again. Based on the guide numbers, if you choose to take those as gospel, you're guaranteed the 4 door will end up at the end of all your work and spending to be "worth" 60% of a two door. I will still contend that for two equal condition starting cars a 4 door is actually more expensive to "restore" than a two door. Again, assuming equal starting conditions, the engine, and most other mechanical pieces will cost the same. The total paint needed will be the same. The bodywork might be the same unless door jambs need work, then the 4 door has twice as many. Likewise for door handles, latches, and so forth. Upholstery labor is slightly higher on a 4 door because of more individual panels requiring slightly more labor. So all up you work just as hard (maybe slightly harder) and spend just as much or slightly more for parts(comparing like for like starting points), and you get 60% on the dollar. If that's good "investment" advice ......................well, I'll just leave it at that.

Let's take the discussion one more step. One could argue that a 2 door starting car will cost more. True enough, it's that demand thing again. But going back to the example stated to try to justify the 4 door, at the end of the deal you get $20k more for the 2 door. Let's take that $20k difference and apply it to the front end of this equation. You could start at $2k for the car posted above, or spend $22k for a two door. Based on what I see in my local market, for $22k you get a car that's refurbished already, and is very presentable. Some would consider it a "show car", though in reality by most show standards it's merely nice............which ain't all bad. Bottom line, be smart about how you approach the hobby and you won't lose your butt. Listen to pseudo advice and you stand a chance of getting the short end of the stick when people freely spend your money instead of theirs.

I'm leaning more to restoring this 4dr than parting it out thats if i buy it, though i'm not for certain if my wife will agree about buying another old car.. If i do buy it i will most likely be sleeping in it!!!The cars its self i think is worth 2,000 but i will offer him a lot less than that..Most times when you have cash in your hands 8 out 10 times people will take it...This would make good family cruiser...I do know the 2drs have a greater value than 4drs. Little over year ago i sold a unrestored 55 chevy belair 2dr post for $7,500.. I had the car for many years(18 year to be exact) stored inside a heated building.. I only paid $900.00 for the 55 in 1989 without the motor & trans.. I sold the car to get my 64 galaxie 500 xl.. I know most of you will be thinking HE WHAT!! SOLD A 55 CHEVY FOR A OLD 64 FORD, HE MUST BE CRAZY1!! the 64 galaxies is always been my dream car... So i did what i had to do to get one!! I know if the 57 was a 2dr than a 4dr in the same condtion he would be asking a whole lot more money than 2,000. i really don't want a show car the kind i would be afraid to drive, just a nice classic weekend cruiser for my family to get out and enjoy.. but if the gas prices keep rising then i'll be looking for a nice horse and buggy!!!!

Sorry but I simply can't agree that ANY Tri 5 Chevy will not continue to escalate in value at a superior rate than any other year car. It doesn't matter the dollar they're worth now. They'll be worth more later.

That car in the pictures has no surface rust and very little at all and as Clinton says the floors are good. That car is worth 2K. And whether he rebuilds, restores, reworks or refurbishes that car will be worth what he puts into with any common sense. A frame off resto is not the only definition that appraisers use to apply to a superb car either-

High Retail Value
This vehicle would be in excellent condition overall. It could be a completely restored or an extremely well maintained original vehicle showing very minimal wear. The exterior paint, trim, and mechanics are not in need of reconditioning. The interior would be in excellent condition. Note: This value does not represent a "100 Point" or "# 1" vehicle *.

* "100 Point" or "# 1" vehicle is not driven. It would generally be in a museum or transported in an enclosed trailer to concourse judging and car shows. This type of car would be stored in a climate-regulated facility.

No where does it say that a car requires a complete disassembly to later become a higher # vehicle. Neither NADA , Collector Car Market Review or Gold Book specify that. Any car gently used and then having every part gone over, re-done, replaced or rebuilt repainted and reupholstered can be a higher appraisal.

Clinton's 57 may not be as nice as my friends started out but there's no reason he won't have at least an "average" appraisal-

Average Retail Value
This vehicle would be in good condition overall. It could be an older restoration or a well-maintained original vehicle. Completely operable. The exterior paint, trim, and mechanics are presentable and serviceable inside and out. A "20-footer".

This grade still is appraised at 17K and I'd guarantee you if he offered it for sale after putting 15K in it plus purchase he'd easily be able to break even.

In 5 years they're going to be in the 30K area so how can he lose?

Collector Car Market Review goes further than NADA in quality levels with-

#4 Fair: runs and drives OK but needs work throughout the vehicle. Body shows signs of wear or previous restoration work. Any rust should be minimal and not in any structural areas. Cosmetics, body, and mechanics all need work to some degree.

#5 Poor: In need of complete restoration, but is complete and not a rust bucket beyond repair. May or may not run. Not roadworthy.

Parts or Salvage: Incomplete vehicle most useful for parts. Generally, take 50-60% of the #5 value.

Clinton- they put #5 at $1700 and a #4 at $4750. Sounds like the 57 was running when parked it'll probably take little effort to get is going again. It certainly wouldn't be a #5 but more a #4. Of course the seller won't know that.

Obviously you aren't an investor. As you said you want a decent car to take to cruise ins not win CCCA or AACA sanctioned national events. and if you DID put more money into fixing it up than its worth today so what? Many others before you have paid above appraisals or spent "too much" to build a car? Why? Because they wanted to have that particular car really bad.

Realistically, NOTHING has dropped in value in the automotive collectable field in a long time if ever. If that "average" 17K 57 isn't worth around 30K or more in 5 years I'll give ya $100. If it is you pay me.

I guarantee you NONE of the Tri5 will be below what they are today in 5 years.

Appraised or blue book value and actual selling value are seldom the same, especially on a 4 door sedan..... Though they will continue to go up in appraised value there is no guarantee that the actual selling price of what the market will pay would increase significantly.... The book value is only a guide, and certainly no guarantee that the actual market price isn't 10 times greater or 60% less then the NADA (or other guide) price..... An investor has to study the MARKET closely, recognize trends, and if very lucky buy when the upwards spiral starts on a particular car, and sell when it peaks...... Not an easy task. I've seen many folks mislead by "book" value on a car and lose their butt on a rebuild......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Twitch

Realistically, NOTHING has dropped in value in the automotive collectable field in a long time if ever. If that "average" 17K 57 isn't worth around 30K or more in 5 years I'll give ya $100. If it is you pay me.

I guarantee you NONE of the Tri5 will be below what they are today in 5 years.

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We could debate the comment about no values have dropped til the cows come home and it won't really prove a thing, and YOUR guarantee isn't accepted at the bank. I've earned whatever money I've got and built the car "collection" I've got the old fashioned way..............by working with real transactions, with real money on the barrel head. Not by fervently holding on to nebulous values printed in a guide that's typically loaded with disclaimers. You are free to do so as you've often displayed, give me real transactions any day though. I'd take your bet, but not on some fool terms like value guide statements, asking prices, second hand stories, or any other two bit kind of war story (I personally love war stories, told quite a few myself, just won't put money on it). Let's deal in facts. If Clinton really does buy the car, and really documents every penny he puts into a full restoration, and then sells it for a profit, you're on. The key word there is documented. I believe in old sayings becoming old sayings for a reason, that's why I subscribe to one that goes something like this; Money talks, B.S. walks. Any comparison to hearsay stories elsewhere is meaningless.

The internet is a wonderful place, lots of good info for a young (or old) body to glean. The challenge comes in sorting the smoke from the real. I'll go back to my frequent warning; others will spend your money for you more freely because they have nothing at risk. Or put in another way using one of those old sayings; buyer beware.

I say 2 grand is not a bad price overall, but if you do not want it badly enough, then i would hold off! If you want to make a quick buck, then try to talk him down some, and just clean it up some, and sell it for 3-4k.

Sorry to rile you so friggin much Bob. I just figured everybody has seen how Tri 5 Chevies have appreciated in value regardless to guides or appraisals over the years. All I've seen and heard is consistent increases but if I'm wrong on that I'll be the 1st to say so.

I see you got a 40 Ford. You probably know what it's worth or what you got in it or what it's worth to you anyhow. They're one of the priciest vintage Fords ever yet I can recall when I was looking around St. Louis for one they were $175-200. 57 cars of any kind were down to about $500 back then. There wasn't nothing special about Chevy prices at all. I bought a 57 Olds HT for $200. Oh yeah, this was 1965 by the way. All of them sure have gone up, huh?

:LOL: Riled?? Nah, you'll know I'm riled when I'm armed! This is only verbal sparing in hopes to teach. Interesting that you bring up that '40 though, it's an example of practicing what I've been preaching in this thread. But that's another story.

Now, your comments on your personal experience in the '60's I can relate to and agree with. Back then, cars that seem annointed now were just "old cars", much as would be a mid '90s Taurus today. Since it sorta fits this thread, in '67 I gave away a pretty decent '57 Bel Air..................if you're interested in the story I posted it nearly 6 years ago; http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/hot...n-fiction.html Times change as do circumstances. The cars we love will someday fade as we die off and a newer generation who relate to a different era will elevate what they identify with.

Interesting thought. You're not alone thinking that as young young ones come along they'll be interest in the cars of their youth like, argh! tuner Jap cars and Tauruses. I've heard that concept before from AACA and CCCA guys. In other words the old cars rolling today will not draw interest.

I think for a wide variety of reasons that will not be the case but who knows for sure. What I do see is kids and younger people identifying with the standard cruise-in cars like 40 Fords and 48 Chevies.

Even when those 90s Tauruses are 30 years old they will never be valuable relative to the stuff out there now simply because they built a gazillion of 'em. And when they get to anything with computers that controll most of the functions it'll be interesting to see how that could be avoided along with all the danged sensors, relays, miles of wire and such.

The sad thing that ended and will never come back is the true ease of interchangability we enjoyed in those late 50s on throught the mid-70s. Each marque could interchange engines and trannies with relative ease. It was possible to build sleeper 427 Falcons, 426 Darts and 427 Novas with little major work.

Today the alternator, starter, fuel pump and all else is unique to each model which jacks up price and can often cause out of stock conditions. There was a time when you could use an Olds generator in a Pontiac in a pinch without flocking up EPA emissions and what have you. It was a bolt turner's dream.

But maybe in another 20-30 years those Tauruses will be sought after. Since the FWD cars with transverse mounted mills have nothing much worth rebuilding after 150,000 mlies they'll all be recycled.

The good thing is I won't be around to see it.

I haven't hung with any AACA or CCCA folk for about 20 years now, but if they share that opinion it's understandable. BTW, as you probably guessed I'm not advocating that a Taurus (with the long shot possible exception of the SHO versions) will ever become a collectable of any particular note. I used that because it's merely a very ordinary, not particularly valuable, used car. The point should also be made that any prediction of a dwindling market isn't to say it will disappear altogether, merely that it will shrink to a very selective minimum where quality/uniqueness/style (both perceived and real) becomes more important.

But back to the point (not of the thread,sorry, but this discussion). I'm going to use an example that may bewilder some folks because of the numbers, but it's a good point maker if thought of in a broad socioeconomic sense. A good example of yesterday's hero inching toward tomorrow's zero (in relative terms) is the Duesenberg (might be what's behind the CCCA thinking). The popular rhetoric is that the B-J auction inflates values, if that's true, the Duesenbergs are positively cheap. They sold only one, a dual cowl pheaton, for a mere million bucks, 1.1 million with buyer premium (yeah a million bucks is still a lot of money, but not what it used to be). Twenty years ago the Duesenberg, any Duesenberg, was the top of the market standard for collector cars. Speedster bodied versions competed with the dual cowls for top of that market slice, the more "mundane" sedans somewhat further down market, but all of them sold for well over a million, a few very desirable topped two million. If you think in general economic terms related to value of the dollar, the cost of the average home, the price of a gallon of milk, or a package of underwear, a car that cost a million bucks 20 years ago should be somewhere around 2 million today just to stay even in intrinsic value. To be at "only" a million today says that Duesenbergs have fallen in value by at least one half. Why? Market demand. The supply is still approximately the same (and small), so demand is the controlling factor. There just aren't as many monied people interested (or identifying with that golden era) in these beautiful classics. Yes, there's still some interest, just not as much. As an aside, certain versions of Ferrari sufferd the same price swings since the '80s. If it can happen to these elite automobiles, it will happen to our more "pedestrian" vehicles. Today's Duesenberg equivalent in the collector market is the early '70s Hemi cars. Last year the market makers were Hemi Cudas and Challengers, this year their prices were off, some nearly half. Again, the supply is approximately the same, growing slightly with "clones", but the bloom might be off the rose for demand. Change is happening pretty quickly here. And as a Hemi owner it pains me to some degree, but reality is reality.

Getting back to the thread(although its all interesting) If I had the opportunity to purchase the 57 in ? Id have to part it out. Everything is the same as a 2 dr except the DOORS and seats. Frame, fenders, trunk, dash, drive train. To me restoring a 4 dr is a waste of time and money. I'm building a 57 2 dr wagon now and you can get 4 doors for a 4 dr for .99 on ebay. There aren't any 2 door sedan doors on there at all other than repos. and there over $1,200 a pair. I made my own floor pans as I have the equiptment to do so, but to buy them:eek: There goes another 2K. I just can't see putting that kind of money where you'll never regain it back. I have a 57 4dr behind my shop just for the perpous of getting interior parts (heater controls and ductwork. dash and others.) Bumpers are under $300 each They make every thing you could need if you can afford it.

I don't think I would part it out.. Foose made a '55 2dr roadster out of a '55 4dr sedan on Overhaulin.. I could see another :) .. On average Tri 5 Chevy 4dr's go from $15k-30k restored/ compleated, compared to a 2dr's $40k- 100k depending on build quality. a 4dr would attract certin people, like faimilies with small children ect... of course, that car is in better shape than my '51 Fleetline 4dr ( altho mine is good ) and I'm restoring my car so I'm a bit biased. 4dr or 2dr, I'll take what I can get.

Matt- you're statement is the thought of the masses, "I'll take what I can get." If we aren't now we will very soon find only 4 drs. available in junkyards or sold as non-running projects. That goes for all cars. After the convertibles, 2 dr HTs and sedans get gone onlt 4 dr sedans remain. In some cars the difference isn't so dramatic due to popularity or lack of it.

Even if every repro part is available for 57 Chevies that doesn't mean that an original chassis # isn't more valuable historically. It's pretty obvious the 57 in the pics is roadable once the engine is turned over. Why the heck not build it? If on the other hand parts are interchangable for other body styles are they higher in price than the repro stuff?

For example when my friends were doing their cars the stainless rear fender arrow sweeps cost $485 each. These are repros. No doubt originals in fair to good would be acceptable if you were just getting the car on the road again or just cared about a driver car. There is no more NOS so there's your choices.

And while so called rodders or modders are disinterested in 4 dr sedans the folks the like 100% showroom stock in the AACA & CCCA groups have no problem with less popular car restoring and rebuilding. Makes no sense to part out a car like in Clinton's pictures cause someone from those folks would like to return it to stock new condition or at least a stock driver.

I was looking for a 2 dr Packard originally. They were running about 3K more than 4 doors. My wife said it doesn't matter and when I found this one I got it for a good price. Most of the gangster-look hulks are imposing 4 doors. Rodders and modders have little interest in chopping up 4 door sedans because they look stupid when done.

I have seen a good many 4 door sedans from the 40s with modern running gear but stock body- 52 Nash, 48 Chrysler. I've seen a fair number of parts cars that were built up to streetable drivers as their kind got rarer-54 Merc w/transparent top, 55 Ford Sunliner. It eventually gets down to plain old 4 door sedans as the last of their line being sought after.

Bob those rare and exotics went through weird price antics. At the same time there was literally no hobby car market as we kow it beyond the occassional 30s roadster or Ford coupes. People weren't yet into Studebakers, Hudsons or even 50s-60s Chevies and Fords.

My engineering editor friend at Road & Track explained the Euro-style collectors answer to the stagnant exoctics market. Most of the owners began listing them at auctions (before B&J) with super high reserves. Their 200K 1939 540K Mercedes would get bid up to 300K but no sale. Could they have used shills?! Owners did that with their collections then went to insurance companies to pow wow for higher evaluations. A few rounds of that and exotics were stumbling on their way to todays obscene prices. Let's not forget a high value auto collection can be usead a collateral at opportune times.