Thread: Need a New Computer

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Very good point, Twitch!

But in my case, I like having a machine with a twin 750 fixed drives, 8 gigs of DDR2 PC8500 Ram, 768mb video card, along with two built in DVD burners, plus a host of other feel good goodies. Don't need it but do like having it sitting on the desk. Kind of like having a blown dual plug 528 Hemi in the garage. Great to look at, but not necessarily practical.

Dave - Are the parts coming in slow?? Thought you'd have that bad boy up and running by now. Should only take about 3 hours to slap it together and another 24 to run the burn in tests.

Originally Posted by mopar34

Very good point, Twitch!

But in my case, I like having a machine with a twin 750 fixed drives, 8 gigs of DDR2 PC8500 Ram, 768mb video card, along with two built in DVD burners, plus a host of other feel good goodies. Don't need it but do like having it sitting on the desk. Kind of like having a blown dual plug 528 Hemi in the garage. Great to look at, but not necessarily practical.

Dave - Are the parts coming in slow?? Thought you'd have that bad boy up and running by now. Should only take about 3 hours to slap it together and another 24 to run the burn in tests.

Bob,
My case will hold all those goodies - maybe someday - not that they'll ever all be used

It's all togther with the exception of the floppy 5" form factor adapter and cable(sorry good ol' Dell, you're going to lose a seldom used funtion) and is in 'final' wire check mode. The fact that there are zero, zip, nada worthwhile case wiring diagrams/color codes has made it real interesting to figure out. Above I said that I had the fans jumpered together and Matt took exception - that's 'fixed' and the suspect green and white wires, they just grab a wee bit of power for the front idiot lights(generator and oil pressure ??).

All together, you are correct, 3 hours for screwing my Corolla (not quite a Yugo) together would be about right IF the manufacturers could get their acts together and provide decent wiring diagrams and use the same color code and device conventions. I've spent an inordinate amount of time translating from the motherboard to the case to the power supply then the various drives with pin connectors. Plus it has 4 fans(2 case, 1 PS and 1 CPU)

Not sure what I load first, the OS or the drivers (and at least for the time being, I'll be using XP Home as Newegg wont take back an OEM version for exchange for XP Pro which I really wanted).

Originally Posted by DennyW

If you look close, some times with a magnifier, the mother board is marked for what the connections are.

I hook both leds up. The one green for power on, and the red flashes as the main drive is being accessed. In this way, I know if my main drive is doing things, I don't want it to do.

Have you done a search for the motherboard connections on the net, for your board ? This will show you the section, and what goes where to what pin.

Denny,
The motherboard isn't the biggest problem - even with the electron microscope readable printing. The case has several wires that were not identified - anywhere. And since the PS and fans are the same company, they were not intuitively labeled either. Everything is hooked up now and I'm about to do the "infamous" smoke test. If there isn't any smoke and the monitor lights up, I'm gonna crack a cold one (in this weather??) shut it down until morning then go at loading it up - I guess starting with the drivers then the OS. I want to down load any driver updates tonight for the morning run.

Got my fingers crossed

Originally Posted by DennyW

Well ok, but if you have a ohm meter, you can check to see where they go for sure. When I bought my case, there was a small paper that showed the colors, and where they went. I still checked each set anyway. The writting as you noticed is not to clear on some of these things anymore.

I took the bull by the horns and did it - the monitor lights up, and it appears to identify all the devices but wants some sort of boot directions - which tells me I have to do my updated downloads to a CD then upload them to my new toy. The fans come on and the LEDs on the front lit as they should. The problem with a couple of the wires is that they disappear into a small front panel box that can't be opened easily and a continuity test made - so I physically traced them back. So far so good - more later - but so far....

IC2, you and Denny are really good but I am going bleary-eyed reading tech-specs on the internet. I commend your talent at putting the pieces together but I came across the following deal on the Tiger site:

MSI K9N SLI Platinum Socket AM2 Barebone Kit - AMD Athlon 64 FX 5400+ 2.80GHz, 1GB DDR2 PC5400, ATX Mid-Tower Case, Clear Side, 600 Watt Power Supply Add A Review

More MSI Computer Products
Item Number: M452-2822 C
Availability: In Stock

Price: $379.99
Less Rebate: - $15.00

Final Price: $364.99*

This still needs a SATA hard drive and disk R/W but it looks like the 5400+ can be overclocked safely to 2.9 GHz and I will still need to buy three cheap cases for the diskless CPUs (probably AMD X2 4000+) and the 1 gigE switch. There is an even faster "bare bones" kit on the Tiger site for an AMD X2 6000+ but it has a smaller power supply and the 6000+ needs a bigger PSU and they seem to require an elaborate heat sink. I will probably still need an aftermarket heat sink for the 5400+ but at least it has the same large 1 GB cache as the 6000+. I want to get a substantial "Master" PC for two reasons. First I will have a good PC when not running parallel calculations and second, the program I really want to set up (General Atomic and Molecular Electronic Structure System, GAMESS; free from Argonne National Lab) will have a fair amount of computing that is not subject to parallel computing so speed counts there too. As to WHY(?) I admit that is a good question. In the past there was always the "Publish or Perish" aspect so anything publishable was good for the end-of-year report which is not the case now, but mainly I guess that I still think about that type of calculation anyway and I have a colleague to collaborate with in the hope of publishing results. Finally, I always wanted to try some parallel programming so it is mainly a hobby activity and maye I can write another book on how to do parallel computing for Chemistry on the cheap with these fast inexpensive components. Anyway the Tiger kit looks pretty good to me and avoids most of the assorted setup steps but I will still have to mount a heat sink and install some drives as well as build the three satellite boxes for the parallel part of the "microWulf" and then learn the LINUX software setup. I think I can set up a dual boot with either WINDOWS-XP home on the 5400 or boot up to UBUNTU LINUX for the parallel applications. Right now the weather is too cold for garage work anyway and we had some snow today so the Winter is the time to "Git-Er-Done" with the computer upgrade. Oh yes, most of this equipment is already obsolete and will be more so in a year, but never before has so much computing power been available at a low cost; who would have thought "sand" could be so useful 30 years ago!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

That's not a bad deal.. that ultra case is known to run really cool because of the CPU duct on the side.. and the Ultra PSU's are lifetime warranty, and have the modular cable connections on the back

The key to computer speed is the internal buss speed, if that is slow no matter how fast the cpu it will be limited by that. like cramming 25 gallons of water through a straw, that straw will only allow so much flow.

Matt, Thaks for your comment. I am worried however because the reviews on the motherboard are not great. It looks like that

MSI K9N SLI Platinum Socket AM2

motherboard is an older model that had some problems. Originally it was offered for the earlier 3800+ CPU and here it is set up for the 5400+ with a bigger power supply. What are the rumors about that motherboard?

Pepi, that is why I have been straining my eyes reading the fine print. I need to have a motherboard that provides the maximum LAN ethernet transfer speed of 1000 Mbits/sec = 1 Gbits/sec for the transfer of packets between the various core CPUs of the parallel system. Only a few of the motherboards offer the Gbit/sec ethernet speed and when they do they also offer the maximum bus speed. I am also looking for a motherboard that allows messing with the voltages and frequencies for "tuning".

Denny, I have a busy day but I will need to check out your references before I order. My wife says that will be my Christmas present.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

Matt, Thaks for your comment. I am worried however because the reviews on the motherboard are not great. It looks like that

MSI K9N SLI Platinum Socket AM2

motherboard is an older model that had some problems. Originally it was offered for the earlier 3800+ CPU and here it is set up for the 5400+ with a bigger power supply. What are the rumors about that motherboard?

Pepi, that is why I have been straining my eyes reading the fine print. I need to have a motherboard that provides the maximum LAN ethernet transfer speed of 1000 Mbits/sec = 1 Gbits/sec for the transfer of packets between the various core CPUs of the parallel system. Only a few of the motherboards offer the Gbit/sec ethernet speed and when they do they also offer the maximum bus speed. I am also looking for a motherboard that allows messing with the voltages and frequencies for "tuning".

Denny, I have a busy day but I will need to check out your references before I order. My wife says that will be my Christmas present.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

reviews on the motherboard look fine to me.. MSI is a well known brand.. the bad reviews the board got could have been from ppl not being carful w/ static. the people that seem knowladgble, give good reviews. it's got 4 stars overall, and only 2 of the 11 reviews are bad.

Thanks Matt, There is another barebones kit from Tiger with a 6000+ for only $499 but I like the MSI motherboard because it has TWO GigE ports and maybe someday I could add even more satellite PCs! Besides the prices is lower and with a little overclocking the speed will be (2.9/3.0) compared to the 6000+; still pretty fast.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

you could get into overclocking ram and liquid cooling, and overclock even more, and remain stable..

I know i have been away from the Forum again, but i have had to proof read last year's book effort and finish ordering parts for a computer I am going to call "ChemWulf" which is a small 8-core beowulf cluster based on AMD duocore processors: one AMD X2 5400+ duocore in the Master box and three satellite boxes with AMD X2 4200+ duocores all conected by an 8-port 1 Gig Ethernet switch. The goal is to load and run the parallel version of the GAMESS Quantum Chemistry program to calculate electronic structure of molecules. I plan to use the Ubuntu LINUX/UNIX system but still be able to access the Internet from the Master box. I need to get this done while the weather is cold so I can get back to the roadster when the first signs of Spring bust out. In the meantime I have been going through a thought process worrying about the petroleum supply versus three wheel vehicles. Unfortunately I recall riding with a friend in his Chevrolet Monza pwered by an early version of the Buick 231 on I-95. We were coming home (Richmond) from Dulles Airport at 3 AM and there was little or no traffic and yet the Monza struggled with the hill at Fredericksburg on I-95! Thus if folks propose three wheel vehicles with small engines to get more than 100 mpg, I have to wonder whether such vehicles will be able to keep up with normal hills on relatively small hills. I recall there was a smaller version of the Buick 231 V6 and maybe the Monza had that smaller V6, but it clearly was underpowered even in the small Monza body so how are we going to raise the mpg using small motors and still function on slight hills? Fortunately I have reviewed US stocks of Artic petroleum and Shale oil in the continental US so that we are probably safe for 500 years on using petroleum but maybe only for aircraft. The best bet for the long run is electricity generated from nuclear power and plug-in-the-garage electric vehicles. Hey I hope to finish this roadster this year while gas is still available?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Originally Posted by DennyW

Yes, it would be a shame if the gov had to open up one of their 16+ billions barrels of oil. Their goal is to get it to the full stock of like 17 billion barrels.

I'd be even happier if the commodity speculators that have driven the price of crude and gold so high would find something else meaningful to mess with. Something like peanuts and grapes. I can do without a PB&J sandwich but I can't gasoline - along with most other folks. Thankfully, I heat my home with still fairly reasonable natural gas - but those folks that are using heat pumps/electricity and oil have to be suffering.

Don,
What do you plan on using your new Cray size computer for - controlling the space shuttle or just going to use it for "gaming"?

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

I know i have been away from the Forum again, but i have had to proof read last year's book effort and finish ordering parts for a computer I am going to call "ChemWulf" which is a small 8-core beowulf cluster based on AMD duocore processors: one AMD X2 5400+ duocore in the Master box and three satellite boxes with AMD X2 4200+ duocores all conected by an 8-port 1 Gig Ethernet switch. The goal is to load and run the parallel version of the GAMESS Quantum Chemistry program to calculate electronic structure of molecules. I plan to use the Ubuntu LINUX/UNIX system but still be able to access the Internet from the Master box. I need to get this done while the weather is cold so I can get back to the roadster when the first signs of Spring bust out. In the meantime I have been going through a thought process worrying about the petroleum supply versus three wheel vehicles. Unfortunately I recall riding with a friend in his Chevrolet Monza pwered by an early version of the Buick 231 on I-95. We were coming home (Richmond) from Dulles Airport at 3 AM and there was little or no traffic and yet the Monza struggled with the hill at Fredericksburg on I-95! Thus if folks propose three wheel vehicles with small engines to get more than 100 mpg, I have to wonder whether such vehicles will be able to keep up with normal hills on relatively small hills. I recall there was a smaller version of the Buick 231 V6 and maybe the Monza had that smaller V6, but it clearly was underpowered even in the small Monza body so how are we going to raise the mpg using small motors and still function on slight hills? Fortunately I have reviewed US stocks of Artic petroleum and Shale oil in the continental US so that we are probably safe for 500 years on using petroleum but maybe only for aircraft. The best bet for the long run is electricity generated from nuclear power and plug-in-the-garage electric vehicles. Hey I hope to finish this roadster this year while gas is still available?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

I'm running UBUNTU Linux 7.10 on my desktop right now. discs are free ( they also pay shipping ) but they take 2 months to receive, I got mine from a friend who is a contributor ( programming/ translation ) and ordered 20 discs to distribute. I have since loaded it twice as I goofed up the first install.. and I have KDE desktop 3.5 installed, replacing GNOME desktop.. If you install without internet connected, you will have some problems with the sources.list file, it will need edited for the installers to get the correct dependencies for the deb files, if you get to that point. I can very easilly help you thru getting that fixed, it's really easy to fix it.

also, WINE will run most any windows application.