youve got to be kidding me, right?????? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1957-...em170162760540
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youve got to be kidding me, right?????? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1957-...em170162760540
thats just insane! and you know some moron will buy it..
I just talked with a dealer who paid $16,000 for a '57 fuel injection unit for an original "fuelie" convertible.
If you have a car worth 100K+, but without the right parts it's worth $50K....what would you do??? It makes sense....but if you don't play at that level, it seems insane
yeah a BIG moron, :LOL: for what 2 k ? you can have a tko tremec 6 speed that will handle 1000+ ft/lbs
i do agree with you on that , i have never owned or built a number matching car before and i dont think i ever will for the simple fact i dont have that kind of discipline i cant just leave things alone , i have and im sure a lot of us have been to a show or just about anywhere and had someone kinda give me the brushoff for not having a number matching ride and on more than one occasion i felt like givin them a smack for looking down their nose at me for it :3dSMILE: but i have to date restrained myself with the fact of different strokes for different folks:LOL: i have spent a hundred large on a car before (just dont tell the wife) and when i did it wouldnt be to just sit there and look at , to rich for my blood and 12 grand i could more than likley build another car:D not perfect and maybe not pretty but pretty fast.. im rambling now im gonna shut up:LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by HOTRODPAINT
stuff like that, is what makes hot rodding un-affordable for alot of us youngin's
That is a high price but there is some one that will pay it, for us youngins i am sure there is one of those laying around in a barn in the dirt that you could pick up for $20, it's just a matter of finding it, And as for the prices of the old cars, they will just keep going up as they are getting harder and harder to find every day, and barret jackson is definately not helping them any, i guess it's only helping you if you are looking to sell your car, Anybody see the new issue of i believe it was super chevy with the red/purple convertible 68' camaro? I read that barret jackson claimed that the car would be estimated at a $1,000,000 selling price, it is a 1 of 2 car and it is the only one left as the other car has been found to be destroyed, but if i had a million dollars to spend on a car first it would have a 1000 ci + all aluminum injected and blown engine with 3-4000 hp and the best of the best of everything and still have $800,000 left to buy a couple of ferrari's or a lambo and a helicopter, maybe a yaught? a small island? Some of those cars go for 2 or 3 million dollars and then go straight to the garage, what's the point? If i own a car that b--ch is gettin driven, 2 each there own i guess
not long ago i seen a post on a grand national on either this site or C&E cant remember which one but the car was listed on Ebay for some outragoius amount of cash , the car had never been started and never drivin , basicly just garage art for someone or just looking for a big pay day i kinda felt sorry for the car :cool: but thats what some folks do , buy um and store um
its their money they can spend it like they want to..
I don't think the big auctions have much of an effect on car prices....unless you are one of the one's after that extremely rare piece....As for some collector needing this tranny to make his Vette concours correct, that would only matter to those who are building concours correct old Vettes.... Parts and project cars are still cheap and plentiful. If I was in need of a manual trans no reason I would consider that old dawg, too many good 4, 5, and 6 speeds available brand new or low mileage used for under $2,000.00.... If some fool thinks this makes his ordinary run of the mill 4 speed worth that much, he's going to be keeping it for a long, long time!!!!! The people who need and want the ultra rare collector stuff are such a minority of the business I don't see where they have much effect at all on the overall market...... Heck, if it's a '67 - '69 Camaro or a '67 Mustang fastback you want to build, you can buy a brand new shell and all the parts to put it together!!!! If you want a rare car you're going to have to compete with the collectors. If, as most claim, their car is NOT going to be a trailer queen and they're going to run the snot out of it then there's bunches of good candidates out there.... If you want the ultra rare stuff, then you've got to be willing to work hard and make good money for a lot of years as have the majority of the collector's out there......
I don't agree that the auctions are the problem with affordability. I can remember when things cost 1/10th what they do now......and when wages were 1/10th what they are now! Things will continue to go up. They always have.Quote:
Originally Posted by gassersrule_196
Also, as far as hobbies go, this is not a cheap one. The secret is do as much as possible yourself. Labor is a major portion of the cost. Used or remanufactured parts will make a big difference, and don't feel you need the latest "trick-of-the-week parts.
On the other hand, for the last decade the cost of new Harleys have rivaled the cost of a car! It's 2 wheels, and two pistons!....Where is the value???? ....and thousands, or even millions of people bought them like candy!
At the Phoenix auctions, there was a '70 Chevelle LS6 ragtop that went for $1,125,000. It was because it was a famous race car with major documented history. That does not mean that the 307 Malibu ragtop, in the neighbor's back yard is worth that kind of money. That aution Chevelle was a one-of-a-kind car, and the value was was in the history, not the nuts and bolts. Also the people who can, or will pay that much are very limited....and NOT stupid.....so "Granny" will have to take what she can get for hers. ("Supply & demand.") The buyer can then search out the SS parts, and screw together a clone for waaaaaay waaaaaaay less than the auctioned Chevelle!
I think many people simply cannot afford to play in the car hobby, the way they want to. I am one of those "predatory interests" who could be viewed as part of the problem, since I get anal about the paintwork I offer, and yet I don't live nearly as well as most of my customers. I would offer that I never forced anyone to hire me, and that I started out as a do-it-yourselfer, before my own friends started buying me equipment, and hiring me.
I'll shut up now, but I will repeat that the choices you make, and the things you learn to do yourself, will lower the cost substantially.
The funny thing is that in '62 I bought one of these original 4 spd for about $150 and a complete number matching 57 chev 283 hp FI car for $300 that had been wrecked. We swapped parts with my good 57 car, did a 3 angle valve job and I spun the dist on my Sun machine and got it work to 6800 rpm, and we had a legal stock racer that was a killer in it's day.
I sold the FI for $150 and the 4 spd went with the car and a used 4 barrel carb 283 for $500. and that was it.
I don't know if just sticking that $150 in the bank and letting is set for all these years would bring equality or not. I really don't languish much about some of the rare stuff today that we used and just trashed back then.
You can't imagin how much 392 hemi stuff we and all the other local racers (Dave included) tossed back then.:CRY: I suppose you could say we contributed to inflation. haha The lucky guys that find this stuff today should thank us and buy us a steak dinner. haha :D
I would agree that we went through a lot of "used car parts". That's all they were then....but a few decades do make a difference!
Today we would probably do the same thing.....especially if someone told us "You can get $500 for it now, or wait 50 years and get $50,000. I'd tell 'em to "Gimme the $500!" :-)~
Hey, I have that exact same transmission in the 57 Chevy 2/dr hardtop I bought for $12,500. Does that mean I got a free Bel Air with my transmission? Pretty good bargain I'd say!!!:3dSMILE:
I am not real familiar with the differences, but I am curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by drofdar
I've owned a '57 Bel Air 2 door hardtop, and about 15 '62 or older "bubbletop" Vettes, of which 3 were '57s, but I've never had an original 1957 4-speed car.
Was there a trans mount on the passenger T-10 trans?....were both iron cased?....were the ratios the same?....and did they have different number stampings?
you betcha :D
They were cast iron. That was the only truely leagal ones back then but Jenkings, Stahl and few other pulled strings to get trhe aluminum case one "leagalized".
The storey/rumor was that NASCAR required some number of cars to be factory built for street use. I heard from 50 to 500 take your pick. They did exist. Most "originals" were dealer created however. If you had the $$$ you could just go in and they would put one together for you. Fillout the paperwork and it was yours. Showroom over the counter stock. haha
The '57 had a round shifter boot with an offset hole for the lever and chrome mounting ring. Actually I replaced it with a '58 one when it ripped which was strangely exactly the same. go Figure. The factory shift lever was bent far forward to clear the seat. Kinda like the "less" (<) than sign with short tail. This too was very similar to the '58 one but not exactly. The shifter was a 'vette with the special lever. It was a major POS. The selector pin was a 1/4 in dowel pin and soft at that. It would shear off at the slightest miss shift. We replaced it with a hardened one but it still wasn't any good. I redid the whole lever assembly and used only the bent part untill Hurst came out with the 4spd shifter.
The 57 car had a script "Fuel Injection" emblem on the front fenders. I've only ever seen one like it since on a sedan and the guy said it was an "original" I've only seen 1 'vette with the script FI and it went for over 100k at auction. The replacement FI emblem was block text and has been for a long time.
The FI for the 283 hp had larger nozzels and there were a couple others available over the counter. They were very hard to come by even back then. I had sets of all that were available but I paid dearly for them back then.
I don't know if there were ever any real original Bel Air 4psd. They did offer the FI across the board and they were relatively common with a 3 spd. As far as I know only the 150 came with a 4spd and 283 hp. Nascar version.
There is one that runs around with a GM Performance display but I haven't been able to get close enough to ask questions the couple times I've seen it. It's a 150 black and white. Looks like barn paint.
I'm sorry I don't have better info for you. The engine ('62 283) and trans were in the car when I got it. I got information from another forum on the trans numbers that showed it to be '57 Vette. It is iron, and hanging off the bellhousing that is mounted to the frame. I believe my 57 was originally powerglide, but even that is suspect because the instrument cluster looks to have been changed, so the auto shift window may not mean much. I need a forensic specialist!!:whacked:Quote:
Originally Posted by HOTRODPAINT
We had a black Be lAir 2-door hardtop that ran AHRA when I moved here in '75. It was supposed to be an original, and had the fender script.
Incidentally we had a show here this weekend, with a black BelAir ragtop with the script and unit. Beautiful!
Just remember the old rule that sez if you're going to play, you're going to pay....Just play at a level you can afford. Sold a Firebird a few months back for $20K. Most of the clowns who looked at it were just tire kickers, saying no way the car is worth that. The guy who bought it is thrilled and intelligent enough to realize what it costs to build a similar car.... The majority of the clown types work at some minimum wage job, spend most of their money partying, and have themselves convinced they can build a car just like it for $3500.00..... IMO, a combination of stupid and jealous...!!!!!
Speaking of cost of building an upscale car.....it is totally amazing me to see the number of supercharged cars this year! The show I posted yesterday is an example, and I got video from a customer of a Chevy show in the area, which also had a large number of blower cars! Quite a contrast to the high visibilty of the "rat" movement. Perhaps the lomg-time traditional participants are, quietly, still building bigger & better cars!
It's that time of year again, as BJ gets closer the posts are again starting about the horrible effect that the auction has on the car hobby. This year however it seems I'm hearing more common sense comments such as Jays and Dave's on the matter than I have in the past.
".....Just remember the old rule that sez if you're going to play, you're going to pay....Just play at a level you can afford......"
Dave's comment is right on the money. One discussion from another board just about summed it up. The gentleman basically said in the late 60's he couldn't afford a Hemi Road Runner (even back in the day it was a high priced option that few could justify). Guess what, he still can't afford a 69 Hemi Road Runner. Kind of like wanting a GT 40, but only be able to get financed for a 6 cyl Mustang today.
I've lived thru some pretty lean times over the years raising a family, paying rent and buying groceries. I always managed to be able to find/justify/afford a project (which was also always a daily driver). I'm a little better off now and can afford to build cars that are a bit nicer.........but guess what, I still can't afford an original Hemi Road Runner and that would be true if there never was a Barrret Jackson auction.
But you already have a Hemi Plymouth!......It's just a few years older than what you had in mind. :-)~Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike P
Seriously, a 440 car could be affordable, and have about the same performance.
But it's a small Hemi.
".....Seriously, a 440 car could be affordable, and have about the same performance......"
Exactly, a 440 powered clone (even 6 pack) would be in my budget if I wanted one (passed on a builder a couple of years ago even). Builders are out there. The BJ cars are far from builders a point some people Do seem to get confused on.
i just sold my truck a few weeks ago , but i had it up for sale for quite a while
barrett jackson material nope , but it was a multible show winner , but i got he same treatment
of tire kickers and teenage dreamers the wife got good at screening calls just by the sound of their
voice :D i cannot even recall how many times i heard the words "BLUE BOOK VALUE" mostly when they
said the magic words i would just walk back in the house and close the door on them , same goes with
the kids bless their little hearts when i heard the words "I GOT TO TALK TO MY DAD" it was adios time
as well , its just mind boggling how many people want a show quality ride at wal-mart prices and actually
belive they can build their own for a few bucks .. i sold this truck for a quarter of what it cost to build
but that was not exactly to point anyway , me and the family had a lot of fun with it and it was time for someone
else to play with .. by the way "IF I EVER MENTION BUILDING ANOTHER SHOW TRUCK" please somebody come to my house and kick
my azz , it may just keep the old lady from shootin me:D
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...d/IM000970.jpg
flh4speed,
Hey , how much you want for the dog without the truck???:LOL:
He's probably priceless.:toocool: oh well
Somewhere around '60 or '61, I don't remember the exact year, I knew a guy in Dayton, Ohio who had a black '57 Bel Air 2dr hardtop with F.I. and it had the fender script and I believe a 4 speed. BTW, the Hemi option on a '68 Charger was just under 1k, at least it was at Harbor Dodge in Costa Mesa, Ca.
see all i want to do is find good projects, something that needs floors quartes and fenders isnt worth as much as people sell them for IMHO i want a 67 gto thats a good straight car ruwith nothing special needs paint <fine> needs interior <fine> needs motor tranny <fine> but this b/s of treating cars that are piles like gold has got to stop, nice truck btw flh. i found a new project car for winter thank god for amc!
thats my pardner :3dSMILE: ..Quote:
Originally Posted by bentwings
".....Hemi option on a '68 Charger was just under 1k,....."
Jup, that's about right....not sure, but I think that the Dana 60 and HD trans that were REQUIRED were also a few bucks.
A grand today doesn't sound like much. It's a whole lot when your working for $1.60 an hour (the minimum wage in 1968).
Put that another way. If I was working for minimum wage in 68 it would take 625 hours to pay the $1000 for the hemi option (just shy of 4 months out a year.....just for the HEMI, not counting the car.
I don't know exactly what that is in todays dollars, but if you multiply what your making an hour today times 625 hours, ask yourself how expensive the HEMI option now sounds.
If memory serves correctly cars were usually on 2 year payment plans back then. Then add the premium on insurance that were being added for the high preformance cars (and the HEMI would be at the top of the heap), you kind of get an understanding of why so few were sold.
I remember the titles of early '60s Corvettes list a new price of just over $3K. I think a '62 model was $3200. I remember working at a gas station in the late '60s, and seeing gas hit 25 cents!!!! I remember working as a machinist in the early '70s and getting over $5 an hour. I was quite proud of myself!
Not worth that price to me, and from the number of bids so far, looks like it' s not worth the price for many.:LOL: :LOL:
Well it went for only $4000. The seller didn't have a reserve on it so...
On that subject of finding affordable builders, one of my long time customers has me doing his "Plum Crazy" 383 '70 Charger 500. I'm giving him my "long standing customer discount", but I think the paint will be still more than he paid for the car as a "builder"! :-)
I think the only major changes are that he is swapping out the torqflite for a 4-speed, and the original wheels for the Magnum 500 style. My guess is that by the time it is rewired, reupholstered, engine rebuilt, chrome redone, he will have a really nice driver, but still less than a collector car price....or even a nice new car price.