A view into the future................

Quote:

Originally Posted by halftanked

Seems like we are the enemy that needs to be dealt with

Pogo said: "We have met the enemy and he is us!"

I have made it a practice to drive at the speed limit, and do some of the things Dave said too to consrve fuel. As I drive along at 65 on the freeway, I am passed by a steady stream of SUVs and jacked up 4WD trucks flying past at 75 and 80 or more. Usually they have one person in them. These people are consuming our resource at a rediculous rate and high prices don't seem to defer them one bit. If we can get the the majority of the population to slow down and drive the speed limit, the reduction of fuel use would go a long way towards reducing the price through reduced demand. Most trips are 50 miles or less, 10 mph slower costs you about 2-3 minutes, so the argument that we can't afford the time does not carry any water. I am not advocating reducing the speed limit, lets just drive at the ones we have

Pat

Quote:

Originally Posted by halftanked

Corporate fuel averages did force the big auto manufacturers to produce cars to use less gas. They did, We went on a gas diet for a little while,and when things seemed a little better,we rewarded ourseves with news cars with just a little more power,and a little more comfort. In just a few years these became 4x4 SUV's with ac,global locator,heated leather seats etc.

Seems like we are the enemy that needs to be dealt with Hank

It's easy to understand why these sorts of comments are made. After all, we get a steady diet of negativity from our "news" media and politicians. The media is driven by the notion that bad news sells (meaning profit for them, though the profit of others is evil in their beliefs), and the politicians maintain their power by demoralizing us into believing that they are our saviours.

CAFE in and of itself didn't "force" higher mileage cars onto the market, consumer demand did. Which is why this current round of government mandating higher fuel economy standards is a farce. True, the government has the power (if we allow it) to force us into smaller vehicles that may get higher fuel economy, but will it really solve the problem? History would show that the answer is no. I'm going to attach a link to some data that will help those who are especially curious and analytical to better understand reality. For those who want others to guide their thinking this stuff will not appeal. http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/ep/ep_frame.html
Chart 19 shows how dramatically our petroleum consumption has mostly increased over the past 50+ years. But if you look at chart 31 the consumption per vehicle stayed relatively flat. Chart 30 tells you what happened when the mpg went up..........people just drove more miles, probably because they felt better about getting better fuel economy. And that doesn't mean that they just did more joy riding. Very likely a goodly number of them made decisions such as taking a job further from home (thinking that they could afford it better because of the better mileage), or the inverse, they bought a home further from their work because it was cheaper, or bigger for the cost, or some similar rationale. None of this sort of consumer analysis plays into the sort of decision making that the politicians do because they're not interested in supporting the market, they want to control it (which virtually never works in our favor). Just a side note about something that doesn't show up in what we're told about fuel/vehicle useage, again in chart 31, look at the dramatic increase in over the road truck consumption (not miles per gallon). It far exceeds that of automobiles, pickup, suvs, etc., and it's growth rate has been significant, rather than relatively flat. This is not to say that that's necessarily a bad thing. These vehicles support the basic operation of our economy by moving goods necessary for our daily lives from place to place. This begs the question, if CAFE standards were really effective, why aren't they imposed on the HD truck market where the overwhelmingly greater impact would be felt?

As for the notion that we're the enemy, again, this comes about because idealogs and politicians have learned that guilt is a powerful tool. We are assailed with negative characterisations frequently. Two in particular that are used when discussing energy that I find offensive are what Mr. Bush said during his SOTU speech (and has been picked up by others), "We're addicted to oil". The other is that we represent 7% of the worlds population and consume ~25% of the petroleum.

Saying we're "addicted" to oil is like saying you're addicted to the blood in your body. Energy (oil being the foundation because it's so reasonably priced for the amount of work that results) is the life's blood of our societal economy. Without it, life as we know it would be impossible, just as trying to live without blood would be for us individually.

As for the notion that we in North America are evil gluttons look at these data; http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/northamerica/engecon.htm
With 7% of the worlds economy, we contribute 30% of the value of all the goods and services in the WORLD. If you look at the third charts down you'll see that we also use slightly less energy per unit of GDP that the average in the rest of the world, which means we're more efficient in the use of the energy we consume when compared to what we do with it. That's particularly significant if you think about how much leisure use of fuel we have. For example, this whole hot rod thing we do is completely unnecessary in a theoretical sense, and as such is a "waste" of vital energy. So is water skiing, dirt biking, long distance hunting trips, vacations, and on and on. Why not give up all those wasteful practices and really save the planet? Sure, we should endeavor individually to be as efficient as is practical, but the scope of our energy needs shows that we are a spit in the ocean.

The reality is, we have a diverse and complex economy that employs people in many facets all interrelated for mutual benefit, and it largely runs on petroleum energy. Without it we couldn't produce wondrous benefits like life saving drugs and medical procedures, clean water at the twist of the wrist, sanitation systems that prolong life, and so on.

Energy issues are tough to reduce to sound bites so understanding all these interrelated complexities is tough. We do that at our own peril. If this bill that's been forwarded to the House of Representatives for consideration were really trying to do something about our energy needs it would include a lot of positive alternatives which it doesn't. Probably the most glaring example is not a single reference to nuclear electrical generating plants, not to mention increasing domestic petroleum production.

This bill isn't about solving energy problems, it's about empowering politicians and bureaucracies through excessive taxation and restriction of freedom.

The whole bill to me looks like our do-nothing politicians are doing it again, doing nothing.... Time we started running these boys out of office and get some heavy hitters in their that will address the real problems in this country.

I dunno, maybe it's the fact that the media can pull a 10 second sound byte out of a 20 minute oration and at their discretion make the speaker either a hero or a zero? Maybe we all just don't pay attention, and let these sound bytes as presented by the media influence us and we don't bother taking the time to actually study the issues???

I personally think we need real people and successful businessmen running things in DC and get all the lawyers and professional politicians out of there.... The clowns we have now seem to do nothing but write ridiculous laws that benefit no one but them, and do nothing for the rest of us but raise our taxes and take away our individual freedoms....

Or maybe we need to do away with our current ineffective system of President, Congress, and Constituents and go to a system of CEO, Board of Directors, and Stockholders!!!!

I used to think I at least knew some of the answers, nowadays I can't even figure out the questions....