Hope the surgery goes well for you Mike! Keep us updated, even though typing with one hand is a slow, slow process!
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Hope the surgery goes well for you Mike! Keep us updated, even though typing with one hand is a slow, slow process!
Everybody knows you will end up with the hemi-quit fooling yourself and move on with it
are you going to do hardened seats in the hemi heads?
Time for me to catchup on this thread, just saw it today!
"........Everybody knows you will end up with the hemi-quit fooling yourself....."
I never said otherwise Jerry.
From Post 1
"........The plan is to do the initial assembly, test stand and eventually install the engine in a car in the Poly/Tri Power configuration. Depending on how well it performs (or how long it takes me to want to experiment further) I'll have the HEMI heads ready to bolt on........"
Plans for testing the Hemi/Poly configurations evolved a bit further....from post 7
"........Right now I'm looking at the initial configuration being as a Poly with Tri-Power and then switching over to Fuel injection. The next step will be switching over to the HEMI heads with fuel injection......I'll probably not bother checking carburetors against the fuel injection with the Hemi configuration as I pretty much already know what a 331 and 354 carbureted engine runs like.
Not sure exactly how I'm going to test the combinations......I want to do a little better than the old seat of the pants thing and I don't really want to go thru the dragging the engine back and forth to the engine Dyno in Tucson. My other 2 options once I get the engine in a car are putting it on a chassis Dyno (my friend who runs a local speed shop usually brings the portable chassis Dyno to his shop twice a year). Though not as accurate, taking it to Tucson Dragway a few times for testing also has a certain appeal....."
As far as the hardened seats for the Hemi heads, every first Gen Chrysler Hemi I've come across came from the factory with replaceable hardened seats, including this one. At least that's one step I won't have to go thru.
The thing that appeals to me about this little project is that this is basically just a head swap. Intake manifolds, accessories, etc all interchange between the different heads. The exhaust flanges are different, but think I've figured out a way I can make a set of HEMI headers work with the Poly heads (and custom headers aren't that hard if I have to).
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Mike I was trying to be funny--------
Not much of an update, but I did find something interesting today while I was sorting thru the Poly parts. Turns out the Poly pushrods are only .065 shorter than the intake (short) pushrods for the 331/354 Hemi.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7860/...a62fee53_z.jpgHemi poly PR by M Patterson, on Flickr
Regardless of the cam I use in the short block I'll be ordering adjustable pushrods, and it was kind of a pleasant surprise to find out that I won't have to worry about having to have oddball length custom pushrod made (the .065 difference is well within the adjustable range). So it looks like I'll be able to just order a complete set of pushrods for the hemi heads and an extra 8 intake pushrods to cover the Poly heads.
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My wrist is getting a little better so I was able to get some light parts cleaning done. This weekend was spent getting the valley cover cleaned up.
The original valley covers have the oil fill tube and provisions for a PCV valve (the original location for the road draft tube). The cover is made in 2 pieces and also acts as the oil separator for the PCV system.
Most of the aftermarket valley covers I looked at have a flush mount oil fill which looks nice but can be a PIA to add a quart of oil to when you are on the road. They also have no provisions for a PCV valve. The common work around for the PCV is a bolt on breather kit for the valve covers. IMO they look OK on aftermarket valve covers but not so much on stock stamped ones like I'll be using let alone the Poly covers the engine will start out with.
With that in mind I decided to use the original valley cover rather than go the aftermarket market route.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7862/...53dd033b_z.jpgVP1 by M Patterson, on Flickr
The biggest problem with using the original cover is getting them clean......years of running non-detergent oil usually leaves a bunch of crud on the inside. It was not a problem years ago when most machine shops used a hot tank and they could be soaked to dissolve the stuff but the jet washes most shops use now don't do much good on the inside of them. The top and bottom of the cover are spot welded together and some guys split them for cleaning. I took an easier route and after I had it jet washed to get the outside crud off I soaked it in my 5 gallon bucket of carb cleaner for a couple of days. I managed to get a flashlight and dental mirror in to verify that it was completly clean and this is ready for a coat of paint.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7880/...c06affd2_z.jpgVP2 by M Patterson, on Flickr
OK saving almost $300 on aftermarket parts is also a big plus. :3dSMILE:
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By mutual agreement my block has been pretty much sitting in queue at the machine shop while my hand heals. In the mean time I've been collecting parts and making a few measurements.
Dave currently has 2 other 331 HEMIs under construction at his shop so I've been able to get some measurements off those for reference when I make a decision of what pistons I'll be using in my engine.
One engine is a customer's 331 that is using Hot Heads stock replacement (.030) pistons. This is just pretty much a stock rebuild so it's not going thru the steps to figure what the actual compression ratio, but I did get piston pin height on the pistons before they were installed and deck height numbers off it for comparison.
https://live.staticflickr.com/7813/4...e4b4e257_z.jpgY SR by M Patterson, on Flickr
We haven't sonic checked my block yet so it's still up in the air as to what pistons I'll be using. I got a couldn't pass up deal on a set of NOS standard bore 354 Pistons that may go in it. These are about .060 taller than the stock replacement pistons HH sells but have a lot more valve relief.
https://live.staticflickr.com/7917/4...fbe36b49_z.jpgY NOS by M Patterson, on Flickr
Just fort grins this is the 331 Dave is building for himself using Ross pistons. With the aluminum heads that will go on it will be right at 10:1 compression.
https://live.staticflickr.com/7908/4...7f15de30_z.jpgY 10 1 by M Patterson, on Flickr
I've also been collecting more parts for my build. My Hot Heads order came in.....mostly the parts I know I'll need regardless of the heads and cam I'll be using. I'm using the Hot Heads thin timing cover and lower pulleys which are the same as what I currently have on the 354 in my 57 Plymouth. The water pump pulley is actually an aftermarket 2 groove pulley for a small block Chevy with short water pump. It lines up perfectly with the HH lower pulleys and is about 1/3 the cost of HH billet one.
I also stumbled across a OLD Fel Pro head gasket set the 331/354 Poly. It had been mis-advertised as being for an early Hemi and had no takers so the price was right. It's got the steel shim head gaskets (worth about a 1/4 point compression over the composite gaskets).
I was also pleasantly surprised to find out HH sells the solid copper exhaust flange gaskets. The set I bought from a different vendor for the Hemi in the 37 turned out to be composite with thin sheets of copper on either side.
https://live.staticflickr.com/7888/4...de027bd0_z.jpgY inv by M Patterson, on Flickr
When I built the 331 and 354 HEMIs back in 2006 I didn't add the lower spark plug tube seals HH sells. I've pulled the plugs on both engines a couple of time. When I restart the 354 afterwards it gives off a little puff of smoke when it's started again and then it's fine. When I pull the plugs on the 331 and restart it smokes like a train until the oil that falls in the cylinder is burned off. As the HEMI heads that will eventually go on this engine are the same triple nickel heads that the other 331 uses I'll be using HH lower tube seals on this one.
I like the looks of the 426 spark plug boots on the early HEMIs. When I built my other HEMIs they sold custom spark plug tubes that were flanged at the top for stock 426 boots. Those tubes are apparently no longer available but HH sells a push in 426 "style" boot for use with the stock spark plug tubes. Their site didn't have a real good picture of what the boots looked like so here's a better picture. I can live with them especially as I have a bunch of good stock plug tubes I can use (which saves about $150 by not having to buy the custom tubes if they were even available).
https://live.staticflickr.com/7922/4...f672f210_z.jpgY PT by M Patterson, on Flickr
So that's about were I'm currently at.
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After almost 2 ½ years we have some forward movement on the engine build. It got back burnered because of the new house, move and the kids moving into out old house and just life in general.
The Poly (Spitfire) part of the build is still on the back burner. Turns out the 301 Poly heads I have likely are not going to work because of the chamber size which will overhang the cylinder heads once we take the bore out .125 for the 354 Pistons. I’ve put the word out that I’m looking for a pair of 1957 354 Poly heads but so far haven’t had any luck locating any. I’m still looking at doing the Poly heads at some point but for now it’s going to be going together as a HEMI.
Speaking of which we did get the block sonic checked and it’s good to go out the .125” we want for the 354 pistons. Technically we only have to go out .085” as it had already been bored .040 on a previous rebuilt. Dave also got the mains line honed and next up will be square decking the block. As I don’t know for sure if the engine will be getting an automatic or a stick behind it, we also need to get the back of the crank drilled for a pilot bearing.
I got around to ordering the rest of the parts I need to finish up the engine. With the availability of some parts and the price increases I sure wish I’d done that a year and a half ago. I elected to hold of on the roller cam for now and just ordered a flat tappet hydraulic cam from Hot Heads.
So it looks like I have a winter project this year.
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After 4 months on backorder the cam finally came in last week, so Dave (69Bee) was able to get the cam bearings in and make sure there weren’t going to be any binding issues. That was the last thing to do on the block before I brought it home.
After the sonic check the block was square decked and line honed then bored for the 354 pistons. Dave had already bored the step out of the freeze plug holes so I could use cup type freeze plugs instead the factory disc plugs.
With the block home I chased all the threaded holes, got the pipe plugs in, painted it and installed the freeze plugs. It sure looks a lot better than the rusty lump I started with.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b051f2b2_z.jpg354 block by M Patterson, on Flickr
Dave doesn’t do crank grinding or balancing so the rotating assembly is out for those 2 jobs. When it comes back I’ll assemble the short block. Who knows Dave might even have the heads done by then. I’ve also got a couple of parts from Hot Heads that I’m waiting on anyway.
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While I’m waiting on the rotating assembly to come back I decided to go ahead and get some of the little things done.
I’m using a Hot Heads dual plane, single quad intake for this one. Of the options out there I figured this would probably work the best when I convert to fuel injection.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...247049fb_z.jpgHHI1 by M Patterson, on Flickr
A friend of mine used one on a customers’ engine and had issues getting the manifold bots to start straight due to inference between the cap screw heads and runners. After examining mine it looked like I’d run into the same problem so I did a little relieving on some of the runners. Hot Heads only drills and taps the front 2 water outlets on the intake. I usually like to run one of the heater hoses to the passenger side rear port so I drilled and tapped that one. Visually I’m trying keep this build kind of low key (not a lot of bling) so the intake got a coat of red paint to match the engine.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...eaa3345c_z.jpgHHI2 by M Patterson, on Flickr
I had the stuff to build a 4 speed adapter set aside so I dug that out and cleaned it off so I can hang the engine on the run stand and bolt a starter to it when I get to that point.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...27f73549_z.jpgBell by M Patterson, on Flickr
I’d salvaged a couple of 301 Poly distributors when I got the Spitfire Heads a couple years back as they will also fit the 331/354 HEMIs.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c6e77b66_z.jpgDist 1 by M Patterson, on Flickr
These are pretty easy to convert to SB MOPAR electronic internals. One is set up with mechanical and vacuum advance. That one that will be used when the engine is on the stand and the engine is carbureted. I set the other one up with the advance locked for when I convert to fuel injection. The lock out conversion was actually pretty simple using old “Lean Burn” pieces (anybody remember those horrible things).
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...38a5cea2_z.jpgDist Conv by M Patterson, on Flickr
I also got around and went thru one of the swap meet AFBs I’d picked up. It had gotten a fair amount of corrosion on the outside but was beautiful on the inside so it got cleaned and a kit. I’ts only 600 CFM but that should be plenty for the test stand to break the cam in and run once in a while.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a58b9a04_z.jpgcarb 354 by M Patterson, on Flickr
And I got a bunch of the little parts painted so they’ll be ready to go on.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...baf3cbef_z.jpgmisc parts by M Patterson, on Flickr
I’d really like to get the alternator, AC compressor bracket, power steering pump brackets and air cleaner built but that will have to wait until I get the engine assembled.
Oh well back to waiting.
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Looking great, Mike! I'm always impressed with your knowledge of the early Hemi's and all of the supporting parts & pieces that go along with making a complete package. You need to write a book!!
Everything looks great, Mike. I do remember lean burn, just thinking about it could give me nightmares! Sure is going to be a sweet engine!
“……. I do remember lean burn, just thinking about it could give me nightmares!.......”
Yeah Dave when it came to the early emission systems in the 70s they all pretty much sucked but I’d have to put the Chrysler Lean Burn/Electronic Spark Control, right at the top of the bad pile. Never thought I’d have anything good to say about them but the pieces made the conversion drop in.
I was dealing with a guy back east for the parts I needed to convert the distributors and mentioned that I would set up one with the advance locked out. He reminded me of the old lean burn distributors and happened to have the parts on hand.
“…..I'm always impressed with your knowledge of the early Hemi's and all of the supporting parts & pieces that go along with making a complete package. You need to write a book!!......”
Naw, Roger I’m just fortunate to have the books that were written by the smart people :LOL: .
I got to admit it feels a little strange putting this engine together and only putting a single carburetor on it. Even having the Hot Heads intake on hand I came really close to pulling the trigger on a Weiand Dual Quad unit last week and I noticed that Gear Drive is producing new 6 two barrel intakes like the Drag Star I’m running on the 37 Dodge. Heck I even have the Tri-Power I ran on the 57 all rebuilt and setting on the shelf.
I really want to play with fuel injection though and this 4 barrel intake seems like it may be the best one to try it with.
Of all the engines I’ve built since I’ve lived here (at 4500 ft) the early HEMIs seem to be the most sensitive to altitude changes. Even a “short” trip to Tucson is a drop to 2000 feet and going to Phoenix I drop to 1000 feet. The trip back to Illinois I go clear down to 200 feet. I’m hoping whatever system I end up choosing will be able to handle the adjustments to AF ratio and timing to compensate.
If it doesn’t I still have carbs and strip kits :3dSMILE:
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Nothing wrong with going EFI, but man, 6 twos would have been super cool!
The build looks great.
“…..Nothing wrong with going EFI, but man, 6 twos would have been super cool!......”
They are Mike! I still have the 37 Dodge PU with the Drag Star on it……I get it out once every week or 2.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...692bd73b_z.jpg37 eng by M Patterson, on Flickr
It’s nothing but a ton of fun. The 46RH and Dana with 4.56s has actually turned out to be a very street friendly combination and definitely cruises comfortably on the highway.
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I think you'll like the FI Mike. When I did the '36 roadster the best setup I felt at the time was the MSD Atomic, I especially liked the minimalist wiring harness to keep the engine compartment clean. Since then a bunch of similar systems have come out and the prices have gone down significantly. For a while the FI Tech products have been popular, but I don't follow that stuff much anymore so don't know what's available now a days. You have one in mind?
That picture was worth logging onto the site today! Wish I could have given it more than one like! Looks just as good as I thought it would.
I’ve been reading up on the different systems off and on for the last couple of years Bob. At one point I was pretty sold on the FI Tech unit until I had some discussions with a friend who runs a speed shop and has done a couple of those, he’s not a real fan.
Lately I’ve been taking a closer look at the Holley Sniper and if I had to pull the trigger on a unit right now I would probably go that route.
In my opinion it’s kind of hard to get info I fully trust or that answers all my questions on any of the systems. You either get write ups/videos by the company who builds the system (they're all glowing of course) or you get the comments by users who are having problems (which in a lot of cases track down to improper installation, unrealistic expectations, or the occasional bad part). In most cases I try to have the salt shaker handy when I’m reading but with my eyes, it’s getting harder to pry out the grain of salt I need when I’m going thru the stuff.
The problem as I see it is that there could be a large number of any of the systems out there that were installed and work the way they should but the guys never comment either way.
The real information I’d like to see on any of the systems is their reliability over the long term. You guys that have been on the site for a long time know about my trips back to Illinois. My real concern (and real test) on any of the engines that I build is that they can go 1500 miles only stopping for gas then do about 1000 “in and around” miles then another 1500 miles straight thru back to AZ going from 4500 ft to 200 ft and back again. Oh and did I mention temperatures ranging from below freezing to 110 degrees.
Right now I’m still in the research stage and would welcome any comments/recommendations from the group. I also know that whatever the current latest and greatest may have changed by the time I actually buy a system.
Whatever I choose I’m sure it will be an adventure and learning curve :whacked:
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“…..Looks just as good as I thought it would……”
Actually sounds pretty decent too :3dSMILE:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndlUhQnqq4Q
Sometimes I can’t help myself………there’s 2 minuets of your life you’ll never get back :LOL:
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Your truck is super cool, and sounds amazing!
On the EFI, I did mine in 2011 when things were evolving, ahead of the plug & play packages, self-learn tuning and more reasonable pricing ;). The one thing I would offer is to be SURE to run your EFI power direct from the positive post of the battery like the instructions tell you. In my initial install I told myself that the bulkhead connector on the firewall, fed by a 1/0 welding cable from the battery in the trunk would be the same, but the drawdown of the starter caused me starting problems for months!! I ran a #10 from the +terminal to the EFI unit and it was night & day difference.
I have been reading and watching the Holley Sniper tech board on FB and you don't want to go there for reliability encouragement. Holley does have a few issues that are easily fixed by yourself. Sometimes people post they get gun shy of the Holley because of all the issues on the FB board but then a ton of people chime in to say how happy and trouble free they have been. Seems like most issues are improper installation and RFI with the Hyperspark. Clean proper wiring and good grounds are a must ! I am pretty much finished installing it on my T/A so if you got any questions I have a little experience with it, about 50 miles so far :LOL:
Mike, the comments from Roger and Seth above are part of why the feedback loop we will often have to rely on need that grain of salt thing you mentioned. I'll drop in another example from outside the automobile subject as an extreme, but representative, example. One of my other passions is cooking, primarily outdoor but all encompassing. One of the head shaking examples of the pitfalls of online "feedback" is on just about any Amazon listing. Those familiar with proper care, treatment, and use of cast iron cookware know that you shouldn't subject it to harsh cleaning products, e.g. caustic "soaps" like dishwasher tablets/powders. But, go on Amazon for almost any cast iron pan and you'll find negative feedback about perceived "poor quality materials" because some dolt claims it rusted badly the first time they ran it through their dishwasher. I suspect a certain amount of the online negatives are, as Seth noted, they don't know what they don't know. And that's probably a particular issue with the FI Tech perhaps. When I did the Atomic unit the starting price was roughly $2k, but the real, installed price was more near $2.5k, and more complicated, by only a bit, than plug and play. When the FI product hit the market their "base price" was less than a grand, though, again, the installed price probably ended up close to twice that. Still a big drop if compared to the Atomic, so price shoppers likely flocked to it giving the appearance of popularity. I was very happy with the Atomic, but it did require some firmware updates and a few longish conversations/back and forths with their tech support. IIRC though, now Holley, Edelbrock, and MSD are all under one corporate umbrella. Whether that means there's shared hardware/development between the companies or not I don't know. The umbrella is an investment bank/company so they may hold each company to autonomous standards, or not. I think your idea of seeking out professional installers for feedback is the best approach, with little to no credence extended to unknown skills of "amateurs".
I think I will have about $1500 into mine give or take when I'm done. I went with the sniper refurbished unit which I've heard very good things about, and I got a deal on a Pontiac distributor on FB. The coil driver, coil, pump, fuel line and other miscellaneous things do add up quickly though.
Seth I appreciate the picture you posted of your Sniper.
One of the projects I’m going to be doing is building an air cleaner for the HEMI. I’ve got a MOPAR 6 Pack air cleaner lid and filter but I’ll be building the base for it. I actually have the base plate cut out.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f95c4861_z.jpg6 pack Base by M Patterson, on Flickr
I’m figuring that as tall as the intake manifold is I’m going to want to drop the air cleaner a bit for hood clearance and aesthetics. My plan is to graft a drop base to the plate I’ve cut. After looking at your Sniper unit I kind of doubt the drop base I was planning on using will work with Sniper (if I go that route).
Fortunately I see Holley makes a drop base for the Sniper and the price is reasonable so I’ve now got one on order. For the price if I go with the Sniper it will probably come in handy and if not, it can sit on the shelf with some of my other “good ideas” :rolleyes: .
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Holley makes a Sniper that is supposed to be a direct replacement for a regular Holley 4150 carb. Not sure what you built (or or building) the base to fit.
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../parts/550-872
You might be able to get a dimensioned drawing from Holley on the throttle body. I found drawings for a couple of their intake manifolds on their website during my build. You might contact their tech department to get dimensions.
If you get the Holley 4150, you'll most likely need the linkage extension arm to make the throttle not so touchy. It's nearly undrivable if you have a four-speed, people will think you're a 12-year-old learning how to drive a clutch cuz you'll be burning off the tires everywhere. I ended up putting the progressive linkage on which will open the secondaries in progression, My TA air cleaner would not fit with the arm extension so that's why we went with a progressive. I still have the Holly Street demon air filter which is a drop base, I'd be more than willing to sell that to you if you need it. It says Demon on it because of the Holley Street demon carburetor. The quadrajet style sniper works pretty much like a quadrajet and has smaller primaries and large secondaries with progressive linkage on it from the factory.
The rotating assembly came back from the balancer today, so begins the assembly.
Normally I’d get a little farther along before I posted anything but I came across something that might be of interest to some.
For the last few decades I’ve used Plastigauge for a quick check on the Mains and Rods when I assemble an engine. Normally everything’s fine (I’ve had a couple over the years where I was glad I did though).
When I was checking the mains everything was coming out a little loose (as in about a thousands bigger than it should be).
So I pulled the crank and torqued the caps and bearings back in place. I pulled out the gauges and everything was right on the money. Don’t know if I just got a bad stick of plastigauge or what. I don’t think it goes bad with age, even if it does, I just picked this batch up a couple weeks ago. I’ll do the rods tomorrow, it will take a bit longer but it’s worth it for peace of mind.
At least I got the crank in today…….of course that was after I found out my tube of silicone had dried up when I went to put a dab on the ends of the rear main seal. Ahhh what’s a trip to town in the middle of doing something. :rolleyes:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...75d4e049_z.jpgcrank 354 by M Patterson, on Flickr
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Friend of mine went through the same issue on his build earlier this winter. Quality on many things seems to be an issue these days, who would have thought it about plasti-gauge?
I saw this and it reminded me of you! LOL :LOL::p
Sooo many good ideas right there.......kinda makes you think they should have spread them out of 3 or 4 vehicles.:LOL:
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With the crank, rods and piston in, I installed the Hot Heads SB MOPAR oil pump, adapter and pickup. The instructions say a bit of fitting might be needed to get the neck on the drive to fully seat in the main cap (and on mine there was).
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c6eafcda_z.jpg354 OP by M Patterson, on Flickr
There are 2 basic styles of passenger car oil pans for the 331/354/392 Hemi’s and Polys; the rear sump pans (foreground) used from 1951thru 1956 and the center sump used in 1957-8. For now I’m setting this engine up with a rear sump pan (and this became a bit of an issue a little later).
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...28944558_z.jpg2 oil pans by M Patterson, on Flickr
I normally like to run a windage tray. Back when I built the 331 (in my 37 Dodge truck) and the 354 (in my 57 Plymouth) there were a couple of options available.
If you can find one, the factory actually used a windage tray the first couple of years of the 331 HEMI with the rear sump pan. The tray was bolted to the pan rail area on 4 legs. I used this setup with on the 331 I built with the rear sump pan.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...8d2bfc2c_z.jpg3 0il pickup 331 Cap by M Patterson, on Flickr
When I built the 354 for the Plymouth they (can’t remember if it was Hot heads or PAW) offered a modified SB MOPAR windage tray for the early HEMIs’.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c09ea439_z.jpg4 SB windage tray by M Patterson, on Flickr
Basically they relocated the tabs that bolt to the main cap bolts to move the windage tray up a bit for counter weight clearance. This setup worked great with the center sump oil pan on the 57 Plymouth.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a36d875d_z.jpg5 Oil pickup 354 cap by M Patterson, on Flickr
I had a SM MOPAR windage tray and bolts set aside and figured modifying it should be fairly easy. This is when I discovered that the front section of the rear sump oil pan is a little shallower than the center sump pan. Basically I couldn’t get the windage tray high enough to clear the counter weights on the front throws without interfering with the oil pan.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...3c50f105_z.jpg340 WT by M Patterson, on Flickr
I looked up the windage tray Hot Heads sells to see how theirs looked. Basically their windage tray is shorter and stops just shy of the #2 main cap. The windage tray main cap bolts are now bolted on the #3 and #4 main caps.
It was a pretty simple mod so what the heck. Now do I NEED windage tray on a street motor that may at the most might see a drag strip once or twice…..NO. If I didn’t have the windage tray would I spend the money to buy one for this motor…..NO. Would it really bother me not to have a windage tray in this motor…..NO. Basically I had the windage tray laying around so all I had tied up in it was some time.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...566c39c4_z.jpgMod Tray by M Patterson, on Flickr
So at the end of the day I now have a 354 short block.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...98e81b4a_z.jpg354 SB by M Patterson, on Flickr
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The heads aren’t back yet but I got the front cover and pan on this week and I got the balancer taken care of.
There are a few options for bolt-on balancers available for the early HEMI. The “stock replacement” balancer that Hot Heads sells is not currently available. These were off the shelf 318/340 balancers for the internally balanced small blocks. They had a new keyway cut for the larger key the HEMI crankshaft uses and are indexed so the timing marks lined up with the timing pointer on the Hot Heads timing cover. Even if they had been available it was still cheaper to have the machine shop cut the new keyway in the balancer I bought.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a905df7d_z.jpgMB by M Patterson, on Flickr
I decided to build my own accessory brackets for this engine. Nothing against the aluminum brackets that Hot Heads sells but they are a little gaudy for how I want this engine to look. Saving a few bucks is always a plus too so this is pretty much a win win.
For the Power Steering Pump I just duplicated the brackets I had previously made for the 57 Plymouth. It’s basically a slightly modified SB Chevy Saginaw bracket and a couple of braces to hold the pump solid.
https://live.staticflickr.com/907/26...13945167_z.jpgHP1 by M Patterson, on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/892/26...82da5efd_z.jpgHP3 by M Patterson, on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e8a2a1d9_z.jpgPSI by M Patterson, on Flickr
The alternator bracket is pretty easy to do. On my pervious 2 HEMIs I modified a 69-82 SB Chevy Truck/Corvette bracket.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...062836b4_z.jpgSBPS by M Patterson, on Flickr
I actually have a spare bracket I’d previously modified laying around. I’d also picked up a different bracket for a 69-71 Chevy truck with AC a while back and decided to modified that one too (which entailed nothing more than elongating the mounting holes and grinding a small clearance notch). I’m not sure which one I’ll be using yet, the 69-71 bracket moves the alternator out and up a bit which may be helpful with the 6 pack air cleaner.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...7264bb7f_z.jpgAB by M Patterson, on Flickr
I got some of the pieces for the AC compressor bracket rough cut but can’t really do much with that until I get the heads and water crossover on the engine.
So back to staring at the short block and waiting on parts. LOL
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Clean over gaudy any day Mike, well done!
Aaahhhh…..what could have been. LOL
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...ef8828f6_z.jpgWCB 1 by M Patterson, on Flickr
I got the flywheel and bellhousing on this week so I could move the short-block over to the run stand for final assembly. Still waiting on the heads so I figured I’d go ahead and throw the Poly heads on and finish up the brackets. I couldn’t resist digging out the old Tri-Power just to see how it would have looked. Spent entirely too much time staring at it LOL.
I finally took the Tri-Power off and installed the Hot Heads intake and went ahead and built the AC Compressor brackets. I duplicated the PAW AC bracket I’m using on the 57 Plymouth. The design is pretty simple, just a bit of work getting everything lined up with the bolt holes before welding it together. I had enough material left over I ended up making 2 sets (just in case I ever do come across a buildable Spitfire). I only did one set of spacers as they are unique to whatever manifold I use.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...951fed95_z.jpgAC B by M Patterson, on Flickr
So that pretty much wraps up the accessories. The more I study the Poly the more impressed I am with what Chrysler did. They designed a completely new head but with the exception of the pistons everything in the short-block is the same between the Poly and HEMI. They incorporated design features that allowed all external parts (with the exception of the exhaust manifolds) to interchange between the HEMI and POLY. Basically anything you can do to a HEMI you can also do to the Poly.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...2bc09976ed.jpgACB by M Patterson, on Flickr
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Looks great Mike!
The heads got done last week.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...23dab6fc_z.jpgTNH by M Patterson, on Flickr
As I posted earlier one was pretty badly pitted from sitting in a car trunk for at least 40 years. It took milling .040 off to clean it up. It’s actually not as much as it sounds though as when the factory put it together they used a steel shim head gasket with a compressed thickness of .024. The FelPro head gaskets I’m using are between .041 and .047 (depending on which reference you believe) so from a compression standpoint it’s effectively only about a .020 cut.
The rest was pretty straight forward. New stainless valves, stock 1 ¾” exhaust and we stepped up the intake to 2” (from the stock 1 15/16”). They also got new springs, keepers and locks.
The only thing that was really added are the lower spark plug tube seals. I’m running the same heads on the 331 in the 37 Dodge truck and any time you pull a plug it ends up coating the tip in oil (makes it awful hard to take a plug reading) and then it smokes like a train when you start it because of all the oil in the cylinders. It’s funny the 354 in the Plymouth doesn’t seem to have that problem.
Anyway the heads are on, pushrods adjusted and the oil system primed. With any luck I may here it run sometime this week.
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Well it’s alive :D……Really wasn’t planning on it taking 3 ½ years but life happens.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...392de53c_z.jpgCVC by M Patterson, on Flickr
I still want to build a Poly at some point and I might have a line on a 57 354 Spitfire but I’ll have to wait and see what pans out.
I’d sent out a pair of stock valve cover and 6 pack air cleaner lid to be powder coated and even got my granddaughter to paint the lettering on the valve covers. They’re not perfect but I figure getting my teenage Granddaughter to even come out to the shop is still a win. For now though I decided to use the finned aluminum valve covers that I’d had on the 57 Plymouth.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...404803f1_z.jpg SVC by M Patterson, on Flickr
Overall I’m happy having another HEMI. Last week was filled with the little aggravations that can sometimes plague a project. It wasn’t so much the engine itself, which went together nicely. A lot of it was things associated with the run stand. Seems like when I moved it to the back shed a few years ago I didn’t figure I’d ever have another engine on it so I had ended up stripping almost all the wiring for the Chrysler Electronic ignition off of it. The fuel pump had gone bad along with the radiator cap (that didn’t show up till the engine got to 190 degrees when I was doing the cam break-in). That was all in addition to the carburetor issues I’ve already posted about. Over all the cam break-in went well in spite of everything. I did have a couple of timing cover bolts that leaked coolant, naturally one was behind the water pump that I couldn’t get to without pulling the pump but it wasn’t horribly painful…..just aggravating.
I might have gotten a little over-exuberant on the cam selection but I sure like the way it sounds.
https://youtu.be/sg3Ns4OV3w0
I still have some dialing in to do, and also a brace to build for the air cleaner, but I’m pretty happy with how it turned out.
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It sounds just right!!
it is a thing of beauty. great job.