Wow. Great pictures. You really drive your hot rod, as it should be.
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Wow. Great pictures. You really drive your hot rod, as it should be.
That IH was in Lansing and I don't know if I've ever seen a IHQuote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
short box like that. A local from there said both IH's showed up last week at the guy's house, and he hasn't had a chance to talk to the guy to see what his plans are. Both IH's were from Montana, it was in incredible shape.
I think all genres of car builds are great, but for me, driving them is best. It hit 22k on the odometer during the trip. I try to be careful with it and keep it nice, but it does not get babied :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver50x
Nice trip, looks like you had fun! I'm trying to think if I've ever seen an IH pickup like that, man I really like it. I always dug the Scout, I remember when nobody cared about them and you could get them dirt cheap, not any more.
I don't think I've ever seen one like it either. Kari and I fell in love with it immediately. If I really felt the need to try to buy it, I do know how to get a hold of the guy. I also remember the days of the cheap Scouts and IH pickups. I wonder if bolt on EFI and modern motors swaps made everything go up in price because you're able to drive them again.Quote:
Originally Posted by v8nutz
Very trip! Maybe next year we can go to Torque fest which is in Dubuque. Also, we should take some m9re fun rides to the road I took to Sedalia. It had more hills and was 18 miles. Speed limit 60 which I think I hit once and regretted it. It would have been pure joy in the camaro. ��
I'm glad you enjoyed it all and had no major problems. The Boone Scenic Valley Rail road is really cool. We've only taken steam locomotive rides on the line. That bridge is quite a ways up there in an open sided train car. Haha I've always wanted to go to the spam museum but my wife hates spam. Also, there's an automotive collection I have always wanted to drop in just north of there. Funny about the IH's, my wife spotted one setting on the out skirts of Carlisle last weekend. I also know where a 2 door commanche is but I'd rather hav3 a scout too. A friend of mine is building one with a 361? and a 4L65E. I'm not sure when he'll get it done. Do you two have any plans to come to goodguys? Maybe take a ride down Grand in the Camaro or 40? ��
Have I seen Rita's future :HMMM::HMMM::LOL:
We may try to make it this year, I've never been there before.Quote:
Originally Posted by 40FordDeluxe
I need some help here, I'm at a lose on what to do next about a driveline vibration. I have a triangulated Ford 8.8 and a 4L60E, and I have a vibration at about 73 mph that I cannot get rid of, it seems to intensify a bit when you let off the gas. The things I have done is have my drive shaft rebalanced three times by different people, tires have been balanced twice and since then I've even replaced the rims .
And balanced again of course. There's no spacers up front, I think I have 1/2 inch spacers in the back. All the mounts are new and good. Here are my driveline angles, the three separate ones are done by me off the balancer, drive shaft, and I removed the drive shaft and went right against the yoke flange.The fancy one is from a Tremec app. I've adjusted things up and down and nothing makes a difference I'm at a loss. The only thing I'm wondering is the 8.8 rear ends run an offset drive shaft, I'm starting to wonder if that is the problem. I have 23k miles on it this way, and we're planning a trip to Yellowstone, I would sure like to get it fixed.
I know your supposed to have the same angle on both ends. Sounds like you've had it out a few times so clocking it different has already been done. Did they have a really high quality machine for the tire balancing, I know the methods and machines are not all equal. Sometimes tires can have a bad belt that makes for a vibration, do you have any other wheels you can try?
I'll need to refresh my memory but I do not think they should both be down angles. 1 up and 1 down and within a degree with the suspension loaded.
But that's my memory talking!
Under edit - is the driveshaft "In Phase"?
More editing - maybe this will be helpful? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idk3BVDVHq4 driveshaft phase video
even more editing. LOL.. another video that may help. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgNZfIR-8Ng You may find the double cardan joint info interesting.
Seth,
You only need two measurements, the transmission outlet and the differential pinion and they need to be very close to equal but opposite - tranny sloping down toward the back, and differential pinion sloping up toward the tranny. Basically, if you project a line through the transmission main shaft towards the back, and a second line through the differential inlet yoke towards the front those two lines will be parallel. Ideally the two angles will be less than about 3 degrees.
What Roger said.
To expand a bit, depending on who you talk to a lot of guys will run the pinion angle on the differential down 1-2 degrees. The reason for this is, especially under acceleration, the pinion gear will tend to try to walk up the ring gear raising the pinion slightly. Supposedly even just cruising the pinion will raise a little bit.
Normally when I set pinion angle I shoot for 1 to 1 1/2 degrees down on the differential for a street car.
As far as the offset to the side it should not be a problem as long as the center line of the differential pinion and the center line of the transmission are parallel. If pone or the other is twisted a little it can set up vibrations.
.
The offset of the 8.8 was one thing that bothered me on the 40 when I had one in it. But, on the other hand, I have seen many, many, over the road semis and straight trucks where the pinion was off set and the drive shaft wasn't perfectly straight and they run for hundreds of thousands of miles to millions and I've always found it odd but they work. I've ran pulling trucks at 6* up before on the street for a long time and they never developed any vibrations. My Camaro has a vibration at about 70-73. It has done it since I put it together. I am beginning to wonder if it is my thrust bushing on my tail shaft of my trans. Everything I have tried to remedy it has really done nothing noticeable. Is your 4L60E a slip yoke out put?
Ford (and others) did the offset pinion to keep the needle bearings in the u-joint cup turning so they share the wear & loading. It was found to be a problem when the bearings stayed in one place, they would cut into the journal and self destruct.
I'm starting to think I'm barking up the wrong tree and something else is the problem. The engine to 3.5 down so I put the pinion at 3.5 up and it was noticably terrible in the back. The yoke coming out of the trans was nearly straight and yoke on the rear end was way crooked and I put the Tremec angle app on there and it gave me all kinds of red flags. So then I thought maybe I need to do more math. I took the motor deg and subtracted the drive shaft angle and matched the rear end to that angle and nope, same vibration. If I put the transmission in neutral when the vibration is going on, nothing changes , at least I don't think it does, but I'm doing 80 MPH runs on a black top looking for cops so these are not long-term tests lol. I think it may be a little bit worse tonight, and I have the rear end pointing down more. I'm thinking about giving up on measurements and just angling it little bits at a time and driving it everyday to see if it gets better or worse. Maybe there is just that much driveline transfer from the frame to the cab, I don't know.
Ryan, it is a slip yoke output, I was checking that out tonight, it's maybe a little loose, I'm not sure how to tight their supposed to be.
Mine is a little loose too. My vibration I swore was the LH front tire. I put new tires on it and same little vibration. I put pinion shims on top of the springs to raise it a little and like you no change. I tried lowering the angle and it didn't like it at all. I just chalked it up to a worn trans and I'll live with it. It's not a bad vibration but it is just annoying.
Mike, I got sent to a spicer class years ago and they flat out stated that a u joint with a zero operating angle will fail faster than one that doesn't get greased regularly. I found that very surprising but they obviously know what they're doing. :LOL:
"...... I am beginning to wonder if it is my thrust bushing on my tail shaft of my trans.....
Ryans comment triggered a memory for me. My 57 Plymouth always had a drive line vibration above 75 MPH, not horrible but noticeable.. When I was getting it ready to drive back to Illinois a few years ago I decided to address it........figured it was an out of balance drive shaft (it was an unmodified factory drive shaft from some MOPAR). The 57 Plymouth had 4.10 gears and an OD 4 speed so the drive shaft is spinning pretty good at 75 MPH).
Anyway when I went to pull the driveshaft I noticed a slight leak at the tail tail shaft seal and the the yolk had noticeable play. Put a new tail shaft bushing, new yolk and seal and the vibration was gone.
Not saying that's your problem, but it might be something to look at.
.
It's kind of interesting how yours, Ryan's and my vibration all start at about mid 70's mph. And like yours and Ryan's, it's not terrible it's just noticeable and it bothers me. According to every video I have watched, it has been set up dead nuts on, but I cannot get my motor below a 3.5 angle without major work. I noticed my tail shaft has slight sleeping as well, I think that's going to be my next step.
I'm probably being dense, but I don't understand what you mean by the yoke on the rear end being "...way crooked". Are you saying that the yokes welded to the driveshaft that hold the universal joints are not aligned in the same plane? There's a lot of info out there on phasing u-joints and proper angles. Here's one from Belden - https://www.beldenuniversal.com/know...-joint-phasingQuote:
Originally Posted by 53Chevy5
If your driveshaft yokes aren't in phase that could be your problem, but Mike P's idea of the tranny tailshaft is also a great idea to check.
I was trying to say that the front yoke angle was fairly straight and the rear had a pretty sharp angle.Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
I never have done anything to the rear end on the camaro aside from change the fluid, put axle seals in it, and tried to put a drop in posi in it. It is a weird first year 8.2/8.5 so the lunch box posi wouldn't fit. I've always planned to rebuild the rear end and see if it was the vibration. I'm guessing no. I should have the drive shaft balance checked too but ya know, that's hard to do when it's your daily. :LOL:
Roger what I meant by "way crooked" is usually seen when the car has had a major engine swap involving building new mounts and etc to get the engine in (Like the Caddy Motor in the El Camino or the HEMI in the 37.....or the V8 in a 53 Chevy). If the swap is poorly done the engine can end up being cocked in the engine compartment where the center-line of the transmission output shaft is not parallel to the to the center-line of the rear end pinion.
The other time it can happen is if the (RWD) vehicle has been hit hard in the side and then repaired. The body looks when done
but the frame/uni-body is out of kilter resulting the the center-lines not being parallel.
.
.
Yeah Mike P, I understood what you were saying. My question was Seth saying his front yoke was straight, but the rear was "...way crooked" which still doesn't make sense to me even after his explanation. With the vehicle on level ground if the engine/tranny slope is 3.5 degrees down, and the pinion angle is 3.5 degrees up then the yoke on the tranny shaft will be straight with the tranny, the yoke on the pinion will be straight with the pinion gear shaft, and the u-joint angles (angle of fixed yokes to driveshaft) will be equal front and back. I'm just not understanding his wording.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike P
I think I got it the best it can possibly get. The 3° down on the trans and a 3° up on the rear end was throwing me for a little bit cuz it was not making sense according to my gauge. Then I quit overthinking it and realized 3 down on the cover side of the rear end means the yoke is up 3° so now my trans is down 3.9, rear end us up 3.9 and my drive shaft is running a 2 degree angle. It seems better than it ever has been, although I still feel a little something but I could be getting overly anal with the 1950s era cab bushings to frame noise/feel transfer. I do think my yoke on the trans is too loose so I'm going to order a new bushing kit and a new yoke for the drive shaft to tighten up the splines. Hopefully it's going to be better if not I don't care, I won't go above 75 mph lol.
Good deal, Seth. Angles can be confusing, like you say they're relative to the point you measure. Glad you got it sorted!!
Have you ever seen the big counter balance weight that bolts to the tail shaft on some cars? I think it was the factory's way of dealing with a vibration they couldn't fix. Maybe you could get one from a wrecking yard and bolt on there.
Is that what that's for? That's always been a mystery. I might try something like that, thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by v8nutz
Yes, to modify a harmonic issue.I've seen a couple snapped off right next to the bolts. Most hot rodders toss'em away.Quote:
Originally Posted by 53 Chevy5
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8nutz
Yep, that's what they're for. A lot of the ford diesels had them stock. I've seen so many riding on the tube making noise because they've been flung off. The drive line shop I use never puts them back on and I've never heard any complaints. Maybe the factories tolerances were off and they was their fix to get those vehicles through the warranty period? :LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
I'm back with more drive shaft adventure stories. I thought I had the drive shaft vibration pretty good but last summer we took Rita to Yellowstone and it was the same issue again. At 72-73 mpg it still had the annoying vibration. On the way home I got sick of it and stopped at a Ace hardware and picked up a hose clamp and some washers and Randomly clamped the washers on the drive shaft To see if it would help. The vibration Changed to a different speed. So I knew I was not fighting a angle problem anymore. In May we are taking Rita to Florida again and I did not want to put up with this vibration during the whole trip . Even Though my drive shaft has been 2 or three different shops , I decided to give another shop a try. I brought it there and told them Exactly what was going on and no one can it seem to fix it. They called me back about a week later and said the drive shaft was slightly bent and and the yoke was .045 out of round, and they Like to see it under .010. Yesterday I put the drive shaft back on and I was going between 70 and 80 mph for about 10 miles and I think it's actually good now. I called them this morning and told them that they deserve donuts with sprinkles!! It only took 25k miles but hopefully I can put this problem behind me. On a side note they only charged me $45, I think the last two shops it was at was close to $200.
If my hot rod was doin' 72 - 73 MPG.... I wouldn't change a thing! LOL.. but really glad you found a shop that actually helped!
That's pretty bad the other guys didn't notice that. Way to stick with it and get it solved.
Yep, I KNOW how much you chased that shake! Glad you got it figured out, and got a good driveline shop, too!
V8, It seemed to get a little better every time but never right.
Roger, I remember asking you about it when I stopped at your place. The last time I went to florida. You did give me good advice!
That is crazy the other shops didn't notice or catch it. Very good on them for doing quality work!