Ditto on engine stand. Would be nice to have one of those! But it wouldn't get enough use for my constricted space! :(
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Ditto on engine stand. Would be nice to have one of those! But it wouldn't get enough use for my constricted space! :(
Mike P 09-07-12
“……..I've been kind of waiting for it to cool off a bit before I tackle the rear end swap…….”
Well, by golly it finally cooled off !!!!!!!!! :LOL::LOL:
I figured tripping over the Dana 60 for the last 2 years was enough and the old Dodge is back up to the front burner (for a while anyway). I got the bed off today and spent some time taking some measurements.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps7697af7e.jpg
Of course with the bed off I found some rust that I’ll have to patch before it goes back on. The front of the bed is pretty nasty looking and I found a bit of rot the middle of the cab.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps3ca72010.jpg
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps8150d792.jpg
I looked under the rear when I bought the truck and knew going in that I would have to re-do the rear end so I wasn’t surprised there. The POs work left a bit to be desired.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...psb0063ef8.jpg
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps0c2001e9.jpg
I’m planning on keeping it leaf springs, but the springs and hangers will all be replaced. Well at least I know what I’ll be doing with my “spare time” for a while.
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Was the pickup a driver when you purchased it Mike ? The way the springs are attached to the frame just look a bit insecure in my mind.
No it was an abandoned project. The previous owner had already done the Mustang II front end (they actually did a pretty nice job on that part) and had installed a burned up 2.8 ford V6 and C3 transmission. I think the rear end was just slapped in so they could roll it around when the funds/ambition ran out.
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Mike, nice to see you working on this one again. You sure don't see old Dodge trucks much at all. We continuously search off and on for parts for my Dad's 47.
Good to see you back on this one. Been waiting for a progress report.:LOL::LOL:
Sheet metal looks pretty good! Nice Dodge truck. Looking forward to progress here.
I spent some quality time with the torch, drill, cut off wheel, hammer and punch today and got the front and rear spring perches off. As long as I was there I went ahead and also removed the now useless gas tank hanger.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps757e2ddb.jpg
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...pseb4087a3.jpg
With the rear end out I was able to get some accurate measurements on the flange to flange width……I had been under the impression the rear end I took out was 58” wide but was happy to find out that that it was 60” instead. This happens to be within a 1/16” of the Dana 60 that’s going to replace it so I don’t have to come up with an extra 1” of back spacing on the wheels like I thought.
I’m also working a deal on a rebuilt 46RH right now that hopefully I’ll know more about on Monday.
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It's a cool ol' truck, Mike, and it's gonna be an even cooler ol' truck with a little more time in your shop. Thanks for posting.
X2! It'll be a cool ol' truck when your done.. and I guess you had some luck mixxed into your progress today! Way to go..
It'll be real nice to drive with the 46rh in there.
".....It'll be real nice to drive with the 46rh in there......."
Yeah, it think so. The original plan had been to just rebuild a small block 727 I have, but when I decided to use the Dana with 4.56s an overdrive kind of became mandatory. With the 46RH the effective ratio will drop to 3.15 in overdrive so at least I'll be able to put it out on the highway.
Getting the 46RH to automatically shift into OD and lock up the convertor appears to be a fairly simple conversion.
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Yeah, with tthe vacuum switches it works pretty slick. I've used the pressure switches from PATC, and have grown to hate them. So I am using toggle switches right now. My biggest problem was the pressure switches was they wouldn't allow the overdrive to turn off until the pressure dropped below the switch range. I tried different PSI switches and got tired of messing with it so went to toggles.
Yeah, Ryan, I've downloaded several pages of what people have done to get the 46RHs dialed in. I suspect I'll be going thru the same thing.
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Ryan/Mike, that problem is caused by the switch having too much hysteresis, or non-adjustable hysteresis - big word for the value between the set and reset points is too wide, and/or cannot be adjusted, caused by the stiffness of the spring/diaphragm in the unit. What you really need is a unit that allows you to adjust the set point, and then set the value where it resets, or opens back to shelf state. You might even consider a digital pressure transducer if you want to get fancy, but one of the dual adjustable units is good if you know the pressure range and set points you're working with. Google 'pressure switch adjustable hysteresis' and you'll see a bunch of options. Hope I'm not preaching to the choir here....
".......Hope I'm not preaching to the choir here...."
You're not to me anyway Roger. This is the first time I will be playing with one of these transmissions. I'm doing all the reading up I can and any suggestions and first hand knowledge (thanks Ryan) I can get is appreciated.
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I will have to look into this. I had a friend that was working on producing a controller for these but stopped due to life getting busy for him. I'd definitely be interested in using something different. It would take away the wife drivability issues. Oh, I did just type that. :LOL: I tried some adjustable pressure switches but they were only adjustable on the closing side not the opening.
I quickly looked through google and the noshak 300 series presure switch looks like it would work, but it only goes up to 30psi. I think if I remember correctly, we need a switch to go up to 45psi. I'll have to find my notes and see. I do remember that the gov pressure is 1lb/MPH. That may be different for the gas transmissions. I'll have to get the manual back out and check that.
"......I do remember that the gov pressure is 1lb/MPH......."
It seems I remember reading that too, along with a note that that is based on stock gearing and tire size. I remember wondering what issues I'm in for running 4.56 gears. I'm glad this came up, it reminds me I need to do some more reading :rolleyes:
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Mike, I hate to cludder up your thread. I found this switch that might work for this application. If I get some and install them, I'll let you know how I like them. Thanks Roger for sharing this info. All the times I spoke with PATC regarding the problem with the pressure switches, they never mentioned these type of switches.
NOSHOK 300 Series Zinc Plated Steel Compact Mechanical Pressure Switch with Adjustable Hysteresis, SPDT, 1/4" NPT Male, 7-115 (870 psi) psi Pressure Range: Voltage Transducers: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
300 Series Compact SPDT Mechanical Switch With Adjustable Hysteresis
"......Mike, I hate to cludder up your thread......"
You're not Ryan, this is all stuff I'll be dealing with and it's pretty nice to know there is someone who has traveled the path before.
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Glad to help, guys. I got educated on switch hysteresis on one of my first power plant projects that had one of the last pneumatic control systems built. Your problem brought back 40 year old memories!!
I’ve been pluggin away on getting the rear end in. As I’m a firm believer in never throwing anything away, I have a few spring packs laying around from cars I’ve parted out. After going thru what I have I settled on trying Mustang II springs I had. They moved the center bolt back a couple of inches, were 2 ½” wide and I had 2 sets so I could use one set as a donor for extra leafs.
The original springs were 1 ¾” wide so the front spring brackets were too narrow for the new springs. Rather than re-invent the wheel and build new brackets from scratch, I elected to modify the originals to hold the new springs.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...psc266ce94.jpg
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps33902702.jpg
After I sandblasted all the leafs I assembled the spring packs and added 2 leafs to each side as a starting point. They are a little shorter than the original springs (not a big deal as rear spring hanger is easy to relocate), and a good deal softer than the originals.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps5d85af9d.jpg
There is a lot of love and parts availability for the Mustang II front suspensions…..not so much for the rear suspension. After spending ½ a day trying to find urethane bushing for the front spring eye (the best I came up with was they could be special ordered but at least a 2 weeks wait time (plus about twice the price of the on the shelf bushings). While the cost was not really a show stopper, the wait time sucks so I moved on to plan B which was to order a set of B Body MOPAR spring bushings. They are the right width and center bolt size, but 1/8th inch too big around. It took just a few minutes to build a spindle and mount them on the drill press and turn them down with some 80 Grit sandpaper.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps4509c6ac.jpg
With the front of the springs mounted I was able to roll the rear end under the frame and start figuring out where the rear spring bracket will go. They are kind of hard to see in the picture, but I ordered a set of bolt on spring perches a while back. Anyone who has set a rear end up with standard perches and get everything centered and pinion angle set then tack weld the perches and hope nothing has shifted before final welding can probably appreciate these. I can snug these down and if I don’t like it just loosen the bolts until I’m happy with it. After I get everything set I can either weld them to the axle tube of replace them with conventional perches.
I was not at all happy with how the spring were on the initial set up. The front spring angle was really ugly and not even close to lowering the truck enough.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps71776041.jpg
The cure turned out to be pretty simple, I flipped the front spring hangers. It looks like that did the trick, the spring angle looks good and it drops it to where I can fine tune the height with reasonable length spring shackles.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...pseeacd794.jpg
Dorman make replacement rear spring brackets and they probably have something I can use for the back mount. I’m still researching to find a chart on the dimensions for rear spring brackets but I have wait to make the final decision on that until I get the bed set back on and see how far the springs compress. If anybody had a link to a chart that shows the dimensions (bolt hole spacing, width, eye bolt size etc) for Ford/Dodge/Chevy trucks I would appreciate it.
Thanks for the lead on Eaton Springs site Mike, but they I couldn’t locate a chart there.
And thanks for the update Mike. I'll keep looking for a chart of some type, maybe in an old copy of Street Rodder...
Nice work Mike, no idea on a chart but I'll look around and let you know if I can find something that would help.
Still looking for a chart, I'm going to try to call Dorman today and see if someone can answer any questions. Last resort will probably be going to the wrecking yard to see what will work and get an application.
After shoving the Dana 60 around for the last few day I started wondering what the drive train in this thing was going to weight. Looking up the weights, with the Hemi, 46RH, and Dana 60 it looks like the drive train comes in at just a bit over 1200 pounds.
For comparison the lightest hot rod drive train I had over the years, SBC, aluminum glide and 10 bolt was right at 800 pounds.
Way too much time on my hands in the evening I guess :D
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Well I got the bed temporarily set back on so I could get an idea on ride height and see how the tires look in the wheel well. As I mentioned I used a shorter/wider tire in back. I also used a little taller and narrower front tire on a wheel with more offset.
After years of looking at it with the wheels/tires/rake it had it definitely looks different to me now.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...psc7bf084e.jpg
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps819bb9df.jpg
I'm open to any comments or suggestions on how it sits.
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In the bottom picture the wheel/tire appears to be better centered in the wheel well though I would prefer more rake and would probably go down a tire size or two in the front.
I tried a bigger tire on the back and I do like the rake better. I agree on the front, but may be a bit stuck there because of ride height issues. I'm at the point where I've stared at it too long and need to step away from it for awhile.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...psfedcb400.jpg
Sure is going to be nice when you're done no matter which way you decide to go.
My truck looks the same, the taller the tire the better it fills the fender well, the wider the tire the greater chance of scrapping the fender! :)
I almost feel like Goldilocks (although the wife accuses me of having the personality more akin to that of the bear). The first tires were too small, the second to big.....but after looking in the back shed some more I think I found a pair that are just right.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...psa34ca7c6.jpg
The wheels they are mounted on need a bit more offset but I like the size.
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Looks pretty good to me.
Looks really good from this seat! Good Job! LOL...
Mike, check this out! I saw it on another site. I think I'll buy one and try it out on my Longhorn.
COMPUSHIFT Mini for Chrysler A518/46RH and Chrysler A618/47RH
Cool, the 37 is back! Glad to see you working on it again, Mike.
Thanks Ryan, I just got thru looking thru the manual, it looks interesting and if you use one I would sure like to hear your comments on it. It's a bit pricier than the hand full of switches most people are currently using but if it works as advertised it sounds like it would be worth the money.
“…..Cool, the 37 is back! Glad to see you working on it again, Mike…..”
Well kind of :LOL: . I had to wait on spring perches to come in to finalize the rear end/spring install. They arrived about 2 weeks ago, just in time for relatives to visit, the weather to cool off and couple of small projects to come up. When I did have a decent afternoon to get back on it I found out my MIG gas bottle was VERY close to empty. The bottle has been exchanged, and the parts are sitting on the tool box so hopefully I get a chance to get back to it next week.
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Well as usual with this project what I thought I’d get back to in a week turned into a couple of months. :rolleyes:
It was T-shirt weather today so I got around and pulled the bed back off and got the rear spring hangers welded on.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...psocopn7sq.jpg
I know it’s not a lot of progress but I guess it’s better than no progress.
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It's one more step closer to your end result. Nice work!