Project: 27 T bucket

So I got this rolling chassis 27 fiberglass T bucket project that I think should be an okay project. I have a lot to figure out and a lot of ideas to find and put to use. I have a 307 Chevy motor that came with the car that I was going to use, but with the custom radiator shell that is already made to fit there is not much room for it. I am probably going to go with a 4.3 gm v6, because it will be a little shorter and I dont need a built up motor for this little bucket. with the 307 pushed all the way back to the fire wall the end of the water pump which is a long pump is pretty much touching the radiator. the v6 only gives me another 3-4 inches to work with, so I might be able to find an electric fan to fit in there. as for a transmission I have a 4l60e, but no computer to run it. I might be getting a th350, but I dont know as far as chev trans. th350, th400, 7004r, 4l60e what trans it the best one to use? I am doing this build on the cheap and can find good trans. on craigslist for $100-$200 all day, so I just need to figure out what trans. I want. the car came with a 9'' housing mounted in there that is 55'' backing plate to plate, but I need axles and the 3rd member, but I dont know what the rear was used in to find the right axle lengths. I also have a complete s10 rear end that is supposed to have a 307 ratio and might be getting another s10 rear that was set up for a 5spd. manual, so it is probably around 3.73 or something. the front end is a 4 or 6'' drop tube axle with early chevy car spindles I think. it has hubs and the wheels are mounted, but there is no brakes or anything up there, so I would like to find a disc brake set up for that. I dont know if I can just put rotors on the hubs or I need to get a kit. I was think of getting a speedway early chevy caliper kit, but I think it is stupid that the spindles have to be turned. I mean if you make a kit make it to fit on a stock chevy spindle not a modified spindle. anyways I got it into the garage and started setting stuff in place for a mock up and that is where I am at got picture of what is looked like when i got it and some of the front hubs to see if anyone know anything about them.

i guess it was a little frosty when I took the pics. I will get pics. of the mock up later. any info comments or what ever is much appreciated. I would like to put some kind of a roll cage on it, but haven figured it out yet. I would like it to be on the out side like a really simple exo cage, but cant figure out how to make it look good.

You've got some good stuff there to start with, but you should know, that is not a 27 body, it is a 23. :) From what I can see in the pictures, the frame looks ok, as does the front axle and radius rods. Not sure about the rear, can't see much. I would lose that rack and pinion steering, it will bump steer like mad the way it is mounted. Put in a traditional reversed Corvair box and you will be much happier, believe me. Driving a T bucket with an r and p mounted like that is white knuckle time for the entire trip.

Pull the body off and shoot us some good pictures of the rear and stuff like that so we can give you a better idea of what you have and what might need changed to make it safe and roadworthy.

As for the reason the Chevy spindles need turned, it is because there are no bearings available that would take it from the current size to any available discs. They have been doing it this way for decades. It is almost as cheap to buy new Chevy type spindles from Speedway, that is what we did on my Son Don's T bucket.

IMO, forget that cage idea. It will look goofy.

Don

Some years ago whe we built my `33 we used 49 to 54 chevy spindles, used a 3/8 spacer ring on the inside of the splindle, ford inner bearing and race with the stock outer bearing and race, used `78 olds cutlass caliphers and brackets were built. Its a lot easier to buy it all as a kit as Don said. might go look at what Chassis Engineering has to offer....

Itoldyouso why do you think it is a 23 and not a 27. it was sold to me as a 27, but dont have a title or any names of who made it. the r&p actually hits the bottom of the top link, so it doesn't turn all the way. I was thinking once I get the motor and trans whieght in there it might clear it and turn lock to lock. is there any better way to set up this r&p? I know what causes bump steer on 4x4's, but cant see it in this application.

Here are two pictures to show you the difference. The first one is my Sons 23, and the second is my current 27. Look at the cowl area and general shape of the body. What you have there is the typical 23-25 T bucket body, but everyone just calls them a 23.

Don

As for the r and p mounted to the frame, it can't work right because as the car goes over bumps the ends of the rack are pushed from side to side and steer the car without you turning the wheel. A buddy of mine had a T bucket done that way and I drove it home from a show one time for him.. It was the scariest ride I have ever had, the car was darting side to side and I had to keep correcting it to keep it from changing lanes. The only way r and p has a chance of working right is if it it mounted directly to the straight axle itself, so the two move up and down together. But even that is not perfect as you add a lot of unsprung weight to the car and need to figure out a sliding input shaft setup.

IMO, it is so much easier to just not reinvent the wheel and use a reversed Corvair box like 99.0% of the other T buckets are using.

Don

Here, I found a picture that might even be more clear showing the differences between 23 and 27 bodies. The 23 is on top, the 27 underneath.

that top body on the last pictures is probably exactly what I have. I even have the pick up box just like that. I do have a fj55 land cruiser steering box that mounts on top of the frame with pitman arm running vertical.

Sounds like that box would be a good choice. I can't stress enough that a hot rod that is hard to handle takes the fun out of driving it real quick. Steering and handling in one of these T bucket type cars is the biggest challenge a person faces when building one.

You are doing good, you are asking smart questions and willing to accept suggestions, That is the way to do it, and how we all learn. :) Yep, the 23 is todally different from the 27 body and easy to ID from the cowl and the way the body sweeps up in back. No question what yours is.

Oh, call Speedway Motors and get a catalog, it will become your bible for this stuff and lots of tips in there for building one correctly.

Don

here some some mock up pics. as it sits now. how much room do I need from the oil pan to the ground? the 9'' rear has 18 splined axles that dont fit right and I dont have a 3rd member. as you can see the dissy is hitting the fire wall and the radiator is resting on the water pump. the 4.3 v6 is about 3-4'' shorter, so it should just fit. I might need to find two small 6-8'' electric fans to sit next to the water pump on each side. I also got a pic of the fj55 steering box, but I dont know how it would work. there is not much room there in front of the fire wall to set a steering box. and still get the column shaft to come out the fire wall. does anyone have any pictures of steering setups on T's? the grill that came with it is a homemade set up it looks like. made out of 1/4'' steel, but it looks nice and is sturdy.

Not to self promote a thread I did, you might want to take a look at this:

http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23618

You are going to have to sift through a lot of BS and pets, but there might be some helpful info in there for you. I warn you now, it is loooooooooong, like 200+ pages and stretched out over a year and a half, so get a pot of coffee and prop your feet up. It is about a 23 I built from scratch and is very similar to what you are doing.

Don

I started reading this thread when I first signed up on the forum. I think I read to about page 26 or something. it takes a long time to do read that much. I haven't gotten back to reading the rest though. I did like your son's 4door sedan. I have always wanted a 4door like that on bags chopped long and low, but I want old school commercial truck tires on mine. I dont know if I would of made a pick up out of it, but it still looks good.

I guess I forget to post a pic of the steering box

Yeah, it takes a while to get through that thread. There was a lot of non car stuff and friendly chain pulling, but it was the most fun I have ever had building a car. The people on here made it a terrific experience.

Check the operation of that steering box. It may operate backwards of how you need it to move. I can't tell from the photo how the draglink terminates, so I don't know which direction it would steer if put in the standard, behind the axle, location.

Don

good though I didnt even consider the direction of the box. so what does a when you say reversed corvair box what exactly does that mean and what is a fair price for one?

the frame must of had some kind of motor mounts and skid plate mounts welded on to the frame then torched off, so I ground everything down smooth. i also cut out my triangular engine mount plates with the plasma, drilled the 3 holes and ground it down smooth with the table sander. pics. later

corvair box's need to be reversed because they work backwards from what is required. so if you turned the wheel left, the car would go right.. Corvair box's can go for as little as $50-100 if there good and tight, but you still need to reverse a stock box.. aftermarkets are available reversed, and generally in the $400 range. Wintec Fabrication sells rebuilt reversed originals for $295 IIRC.. they also sell a pretty trick raised mount that bolts onto boxed chassis

I put the v6 in place and it fits much better. I can get a 2x4 in between the radiator and water pump now. I should have enough room for a nice electric fan now. got my motor mounts almost done. still need to drill the holes for the rubber mounts. now I am working on getting the motor mounts made for the frame. the motor oil pan is sitting about 8'' off the ground, but it is sitting on a cart and I dont know how much the suspension is going to droop when the motor and trans is in there. I can decide if I want the engine about 2'' lower of what. here are some bad pics of my progress. I will try and get better pics. I dont know if anyone can see or not, but if you can let me know what you think of my welds. I am only 17 and have never taken a class for any fab skills. I dont think the welds will break.

here is another of the v6 sitting there

That V6 fits much better and looks good. As for the welds, clean up the area you are going to weld with a disc first and make both parts shiny. Welds do not penetrate rust well, and the weld will be neater too.

Don

I havent figured out the miller 150 wire feed yet. I know on an arc welder my welds always look the same, but with the mig the welds change about like the weather in Oregon.

got my frame mounts plasma cut out. I need to clean them up and cut some other peices to complete the mounts, then need to weld the together. I also ordered a pair of old style 3'' donut type motor mounts from speedway. Those should be in tues or Wednesday. where the motor sits now.

the oil pan is 8'' off the ground at it lowest point. the bottom of my motor mounts are about 3.5'' above the top of the frame. as far as where the trans is going to sit... I looked at the 4l60e which I wont use unless I find a cheap computer set up. it is 30'' long. the tail shaft is going to sit just under the floor and the top of the bell housing is going to sit level with the bottom of the dash. there is only going to be about 5-6'' of space on each side of the trans. bell housing at the fire wall.

WHERE AM I GOING TO FIT 2 PEDALS, A STEERING COLUMN, AND MY 2 SIZE 12 SHOES???

I am now about to enter the point of cutting the firewall and floor to fit the trans. and drive line. the floor is a aluminum sheet that has been glassed in there, but is coming apart on the drivers side. I found a glass body maker and he said that he would like to take the floor out and put in a all fiberglass floor for $200. I think sense now that I know there is going to be full tunnel for trans and drive line that price is going to go up a lot. I would like to be able to work with it my self and I dont wont to work with fiberglass, but I can work with metal, so I might keep the floor and try and glass it in again. I need to find some good info on working with fiber glass sense I have never touched it before and figure out how to get it done. what is the best way to cut fiber glass? I need to cut the firewall out a little.

Fiberglass is one of the most forgiving, easiest to work materials out there. Once you do a little of it you will think you have been doing it for years. My advice is to use Polyester resin as opposed to Epoxy resin. Epoxy is stronger and bites in better, but for what we are doing with our rods Polyester is fine, and a lot cheaper. Use something like 5/8 or 3/4 plywood that is designed for things like roofs on homes, it uses waterproof glue. Some people use marine grade plywood, and that is good, but for most purposes more expensive and harder to find. I think the stuff I buy is called CDX or something like that.

Buy lots of throwaway brushes to dab the resin onto the mat, and work with mat as opposed to glass cloth, it conforms to curves and edges better and soaks up the resin more completely. Buy your supplies at a marine repair store if possible, it is much cheaper than the prepackaged stuff at the so called marine discount stores. You want to buy your stuff where they pull the mat off of rolls and measure it out, and where they sell resin by the gallon or in bulk.

Don't be afraid of fiberglassing, except for the itch! :eek: If you wear long sleeves and vinyl gloves while grinding (and a mask) you will be fine. The guys on here taught me to use pantyhose to rub your skin to remove any slivers that get into your pores and it worked great, (I think that was Uncle Bobs suggestion, and I DON'T want to know how he learned THAT one! :eek:)

Don

I will have to call around to some places and see what I can find for materials.

You might check out this place, looks like they have everything from do it yourself DVD's to all the supplies.

http://www.tapplastics.com/index.php...15361222704875

Don

so I looked through there web sit a little and have a lot of different fabrics, resins to choose from. what materials would you recomend Itoldyouso? they even have to locations that are about 20-30 miles from me too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jawman

so I looked through there web sit a little and have a lot of different fabrics, resins to choose from. what materials would you recomend Itoldyouso? they even have to locations that are about 20-30 miles from me too.

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If they are that close, go see them directly! Talk with them and I'll bet they give you a lot of pointers and tips on how to use their products! My point oh 2:LOL:

I called the one place the guy was a reel jack ass, then I called the other place and the guy was somewhat informational for about $50 being the most I can get everything to glass the floor back together where it is coming apart. finishing the firewall should be cheap too. scene there is only going to be about a 5-9'' area to do after I cut it for the trans to fit.

Like I suggested, buy Polyester resin. Epoxy does have some advantages, but the majority of new boats being sold are made with Polyester. If they sell a house brand, buy it, especially in bulk (some places fill your container out of a 55 gallon drum) There are two kinds of resin......laminating resin and finishing resin. Finishing resin has wax the comes to the surface so it cures dry. Laminating resin stays sticky forever. Just buy finishing resin and it is fine as long as you lay up all your layers in one sitting.

Mat is what you want, not cloth. I think it is called 1.5 oz, but it has been a while, so ask them what they would use for "tabbing" and "laminating" a wood floor into a glass body.

Buy lots of vinyl gloves (Harbor Freight sells a box of 100 cheap and they are fine for glassing and painting)

Buy a box of throwaway paint brushes, about 1 to 1.5 inches wide. You will use a ton of them and toss them after each layer you put in. Get LOTS of stir sticks.

Buy a 5 gallon can of wash (cheap) laquer thinner to clean up with. Acetone is also ok. Get lots of plastic tubs to mix the resin in, and don't mix it too hot or too cold.

Buy one of those white paper hooded suits that sell for about $ 10. It will keep you from itching so much when you are grinding. (You need to grind the fiberglass to get tooth, after wiping with laquer thinner to get the wax off....resin has wax to let it cure)

Use a good pair of shears to cut strips of glass. You want narrow ones, and progressively wider ones so you can lay up strips that get wider and grab into a larger section of the floor on each layer.

Ask the glass shop for any DVD's they might have on laminating.

Don

Here, a picture is worth a thousand words. Go to post 1125 on this thread and for the next several pages fiberglassing basics are discussed.

http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/sho...=23618&page=75

Don

I have an aluminum floor. I noticed some people say the aluminum does not bond very well. should I take it out and put in a wood floor?

have been getting a little done. went to a swap meet last week end and picked up some stock Harley Davidson feet rests and a pan hard bar for some thing. the feet rest should work for a good step to get into the T sense the body is about a 1' off the ground and the pan hard bar will get shortened to fit on the back of the T. I got my old school 3'' donut rubber mounts from speed way the other day, but I can figure out how they mount. I know the top plate that comes from the engine mounts on top of the big donut on the 7/16'' part of the bolt, but cant figure out if the lower plate that comes from the frame mounts on top of the big washer or under it. also dont know what size to drill the hole. if anyone could clear that up and give me some pictures of how they mount that would keep progress going. thanks

so here is the rest of the motor mounts coming along. slow progress, but got no money or time to work on it and dont even have my drive train yet. the v6 that I am using to mock everything up with was supposed to be a good runner, but I think it sat out side to long and it got all rusted up in there. I took the heads off last night and there is dirt in one cylinder. I was thinking of getting a gasket kit and just cleaning everything up and putting it back together. if I get a rebuild kit that will cost $400-$600 plus labor and head work and stuff. I just want it to run, so I dont know what to do any advice?