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Thread: What do I tell the machine shop for a standard rebuild?
          
   
   

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  1. #1
    JimBeam's Avatar
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    What do I tell the machine shop for a standard rebuild?

     



    I am working on rebuilding a Ford 302 out of a 1994 Mustang with the intent of putting it in a 1932 Roadster build. I am not looking for anything amazing for performance and really just want to do a standard engine re-build.

    My understanding is that I should be asking the shop for a 10-under grind on the crankshaft and then I buy the bearings to match. Does that sound about right? Or what should I be asking for when taking in a block for a standard rebuild?

  2. #2
    shine's Avatar
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    find a 5.0 roller motor from an explorer , far cheaper than building an engine .

  3. #3
    JimBeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    find a 5.0 roller motor from an explorer , far cheaper than building an engine .
    AFAIK the motor I have on the way does run. But I want to rebuild it myself so I can also learn from this process and have an engine that I know works.

    Here's the engine that's on the way:



  4. #4
    Hotrod46's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with doing something for fun or to learn. However, given your goal of getting the car built in a reasonable time, you might just want to do an inspection on the engine as it sits. Modern EFI engines don't wear like the older carbed engines did. Better manufacturing with tighter tolerances, nearly perfect mixture control and better oils have contributed to engine lives exceeding 200,000 miles. If that engine is still tight there is no reason to slow down the build to rebuild it. It will be more than powerful enough to reach your goal of "a lover, not a fighter".

    You are starting out as I see many builders do. The engine should be the last thing you build.

    First, you will need it to fit everything to the car as it is built and engine rebuilds, like everything else, can drag out for months. That would basically be time wasted on the actual build of the car.

    Second, you will spend a lot on the new engine build and that money may be needed to actually build the car. You will constantly be reminded how much you have in an engine that is just sitting there waiting on a car. And, you will have a brand new engine just sitting waiting to be started. I wouldn't recommend starting your fresh engine until the car is nearly finished. That way all of the heavy oils and break in lubes used during the build will stay in place to protect the machined surfaces.

    IMO, the engine shouldn't be touched, as far as rebuilding goes, until the car is torn down for final paint. If yours goes like most builds, it will come apart several times before you finally drive it.

    I would do a leak down test or, at the least, a compression check to check the condition of the rings and valves. If you are going to convert the engine to carb, then you could do that now and test fire the engine. You would need to do the conversion brefore the build anyhow. Hook a mechanical oil pressure gauge up and see what kind of pressure you have.

    Remember, whatever that engine came out of was most likely running when it was scrapped, especially if it was wrecked.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Mike

    I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc-
    I'm following my pass​ion

  5. #5
    shine's Avatar
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    i have not built an engine since i quit racing 30 years ago .

  6. #6
    JimBeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrod46 View Post
    Nothing wrong with doing something for fun or to learn. However, given your goal of getting the car built in a reasonable time, you might just want to do an inspection on the engine as it sits. Modern EFI engines don't wear like the older carbed engines did. Better manufacturing with tighter tolerances, nearly perfect mixture control and better oils have contributed to engine lives exceeding 200,000 miles. If that engine is still tight there is no reason to slow down the build to rebuild it. It will be more than powerful enough to reach your goal of "a lover, not a fighter".

    You are starting out as I see many builders do. The engine should be the last thing you build.

    First, you will need it to fit everything to the car as it is built and engine rebuilds, like everything else, can drag out for months. That would basically be time wasted on the actual build of the car.

    Second, you will spend a lot on the new engine build and that money may be needed to actually build the car. You will constantly be reminded how much you have in an engine that is just sitting there waiting on a car. And, you will have a brand new engine just sitting waiting to be started. I wouldn't recommend starting your fresh engine until the car is nearly finished. That way all of the heavy oils and break in lubes used during the build will stay in place to protect the machined surfaces.

    IMO, the engine shouldn't be touched, as far as rebuilding goes, until the car is torn down for final paint. If yours goes like most builds, it will come apart several times before you finally drive it.

    I would do a leak down test or, at the least, a compression check to check the condition of the rings and valves. If you are going to convert the engine to carb, then you could do that now and test fire the engine. You would need to do the conversion brefore the build anyhow. Hook a mechanical oil pressure gauge up and see what kind of pressure you have.

    Remember, whatever that engine came out of was most likely running when it was scrapped, especially if it was wrecked.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Mike - thanks for the complete answer. Certainly a few things to think about there. Here's some general thoughts that I'd love your feedback on:
    • My general understanding is that roadster frames and bodies basically always need to be adjusted during a build, firewalls moved, radiators put in just right, etc. That's why I'm starting with the motor, to essentially build around it. Or are you suggesting that I still do that - mount the motor for dimensions and fit - but not build it just yet?
    • Yes, my intent is to go carbed. I've never had a carbed engine (too young for that era!) and I like the look it will add to this car.
    • The junkyard doesn't tell you much beyond pictures but the Mustang that I got this out of was in a wreck. While there was some front-end damage, all signs point to the engine functioning; the car was not junked due to any mechanical issues.

    So, is that goal here? Should I just be using the engine as it sits for mock-ups and complete the car (up to paint & finish) and then do the engine internals?

  7. #7
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    I'll agree with Mike. Just clean the motor once you get it. Handling a greasy dirty motor just drags it all down. You can use it to mock up all the mountings etc... I'm still curious as to what trans you'll use too. I run a 347 stroker 302, based in a 86 5 point oh. With an AOD trans and a 3.90 rear axle.. We named her Citation...as the local cops were handing them out liberally.. My avatar is that motor.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 34_40 View Post
    I'll agree with Mike. Just clean the motor once you get it. Handling a greasy dirty motor just drags it all down. You can use it to mock up all the mountings etc... I'm still curious as to what trans you'll use too. I run a 347 stroker 302, based in a 86 5 point oh. With an AOD trans and a 3.90 rear axle.. We named her Citation...as the local cops were handing them out liberally.. My avatar is that motor.
    Nice motor! Remind me, the AOD is the automatic right? Right now I'm leaning towards a T5 but would not be opposed to an automatic.

  9. #9
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    yes, automatic over drive. T5 is great choice for what you're after too.

  10. #10
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    If the engine is good, don't spend the money or the time to rebuild it. Swap to carb and run it as is. If you are building the 32 Hiboy style with no fenders, you could pull the engine back out easily over a winter if it actually does need rebuilding. Clean it up and run it. Get the car running and driving first. Keep in mind you may need a shorter water pump and a rear sump oil pan for the Ford engine.

    I have never built a 32, so I am not the guy to answer all your questions. But I can say, yes the doors will need to be adjusted on practically any roadster from that era. The bodies are not stiff enough to hold their shape independent of the chassis.

    You need to decide what body manufacturer you will be wanting. Or, ask for recommendations from the folks on this site that have built 32's. Not all bodies are made the same. As with any car project, start with the best you can afford. Getting a body that fits well and has slick gel coat will go a looong way toward making body and paint easier and cheaper. Also, get the body with doors and trunk hinged and latched (at least I would for my first build).

    If it's going to be a fiberglass body, then you should be able to get it with the firewall mods in place (if any are needed for the Ford engine). You need to call the body manufacturer and find out what their lead time on supplying a body actually is. Might be days, weeks or months.

    The same goes for the chassis. If you are going with TCI (I think you said that in the other thread), give them a call. Tell them what you want to do. They will most likely be able to weld in the motor mounts while building the chassis.

    I recommend using everything from them if this is your first build. They have been doing this for years and know what works for their frames. By using their complete package, if you have trouble, you can call them for support. If you do it piece meal and have an issue, who you gonna' call? Getting a Stage 3 chassis package will cost more, but like getting the best body you can afford, it will make your job much quicker and easier.

    If I was doing this, I would want the engine and transmission actually together as a package so that I could tell TCI what the length is. That way they can get the trans mount in the right place.

    I would also want to have the body, hood, radiator shell and radiator, in addition to the chassis before starting any construction. Also, you will need a way to lift the body on and off the chassis or have several strong friends that will come over when you need to do it. The body needs to be well supported, too, or it can get distorted just sitting around.

    And don't forget about crating and shipping charges. All the big parts will need to be shipped freight, unless you plan on going after them.

    Edit: If you have any big car shows in your area that your chassis and body vendor will be at, check to see if they can bring your body and/or chassis to the show. I've seen that done and it saves on shipping.
    Last edited by Hotrod46; 01-29-2022 at 08:35 PM.
    Dave Severson and falconvan like this.
    Mike

    I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc-
    I'm following my pass​ion

  11. #11
    JimBeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrod46 View Post
    If the engine is good, don't spend the money or the time to rebuild it. Swap to carb and run it as is. If you are building the 32 Hiboy style with no fenders, you could pull the engine back out easily over a winter if it actually does need rebuilding. Clean it up and run it. Get the car running and driving first. Keep in mind you may need a shorter water pump and a rear sump oil pan for the Ford engine.

    I have never built a 32, so I am not the guy to answer all your questions. But I can say, yes the doors will need to be adjusted on practically any roadster from that era. The bodies are not stiff enough to hold their shape independent of the chassis.

    You need to decide what body manufacturer you will be wanting. Or, ask for recommendations from the folks on this site that have built 32's. Not all bodies are made the same. As with any car project, start with the best you can afford. Getting a body that fits well and has slick gel coat will go a looong way toward making body and paint easier and cheaper. Also, get the body with doors and trunk hinged and latched (at least I would for my first build).

    If it's going to be a fiberglass body, then you should be able to get it with the firewall mods in place (if any are needed for the Ford engine). You need to call the body manufacturer and find out what their lead time on supplying a body actually is. Might be days, weeks or months.

    The same goes for the chassis. If you are going with TCI (I think you said that in the other thread), give them a call. Tell them what you want to do. They will most likely be able to weld in the motor mounts while building the chassis.

    I recommend using everything from them if this is your first build. They have been doing this for years and know what works for their frames. By using their complete package, if you have trouble, you can call them for support. If you do it piece meal and have an issue, who you gonna' call? Getting a Stage 3 chassis package will cost more, but like getting the best body you can afford, it will make your job much quicker and easier.

    If I was doing this, I would want the engine and transmission actually together as a package so that I could tell TCI what the length is. That way they can get the trans mount in the right place.

    I would also want to have the body, hood, radiator shell and radiator, in addition to the chassis before starting any construction. Also, you will need a way to lift the body on and off the chassis or have several strong friends that will come over when you need to do it. The body needs to be well supported, too, or it can get distorted just sitting around.

    And don't forget about crating and shipping charges. All the big parts will need to be shipped freight, unless you plan on going after them.
    Thanks Mike. The intended vendor for the chassis is P&J and the body will come from one of the makers that makes the extended cab version of the 1932 since I'm a tall guy. So my build is very much along the lines of user rspears and his "Followed Me Home II" build log.

    You have certainly given me a lot to think about and might be modifying my plans so that I'm ordering my chassis much earlier than anticipated and putting the complete engine rebuild on hold until later in the process.

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