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Have installed a stock 5.0 Ford small block with AOD in a 32 roadster project. Engine is currently stock, motor came from a Crown Vic. I am converting the EFI to a carb, motor has headers. I will be fabricating the exhaust shortly, what diameter exhaust tubing should I go with?
Thannks
I like to use tubing 1/4 inch bigger than exhaust valve and go as straight as I can wherever I can( not lots of tight turns and twists close to the head) this will usually give you an pipe ID about 1/8 inch bigger than the exhaust valve.
I also make an effort to pair the cylinders in 2 different lenghts to broaden the power curve and join the collector in the firing order rotation
Use a merge collector and tapered connectors where you can
id say 2 inch or 2.5
Most of the long tube headers for small Fords run 1 5/8". You can get 1 3/4 but I haven't seen them any bigger. That doesn't mean they aren't out there.
There are a lot of choices for short tube headers and block huggers and they can be found pretty inexpensive on ebay.
Personally, on a stock 302 for street use I would stay with the smaller tubing for headers and the 2 or 2.5 for the rest of the system as mentioned.
Jerry, I like your formula. I never heard that before.
on a relatively stock 302 a 2 1/4" exhaust system using 1 5/8" headers is usually the best size to use for a street car is what I was told by the guy that built the exhaust system for my Cobra roadster. Since my engine was a built, hi-reving, 7200rpm, 385hp 302, he built 1 3/4" tuned headers into a 3 1/2" collector, then into 3 1/2" muffler/side pipes, .
Somewhere on the net I found a couple of articles on exhaust/pipe dimensions for my mildly modified 5.0 Ford crate motor and ended up with Sanderson FF1 headers and 2.250 pipes. I haven't run the car yet, so really don't have performance figures yet, but have to "assume" that it will be fine for my general everyday driving as for sure, it's a whole heck of a lot bigger area wise then an Explorer or Crown Vic. For a race and most of the time full throttle operation, would have gone to 2.5 or 3 inch.
The only drawback to 2.25 - some parts are not always available
This mainly a progress report to IC2. It may fit in here right after the picture of his neat chassis layout showing his exhaust system. I am stumbling forward in my buildup and learning what I don't know at every turn so I just copied IC2's recommendation and went to a local muffler shop (Economy Mufflers at the Hanover Air Park) and had a system installed with turbo muflers and 2.25" tubing with an H crossover. With a chance to get underneath I also saw some aspects of my chassis that are very low and I may change some of that. As IC2 said, the muffler shop politely declined to use the pipes that I purchased from Speedway and welded their own setup in a few hours. Although the shop is called the "Economy Muffler" shop it did not seem economical to me, but then I remember when a Pepsi was five cents and gas was $0.259/gal. so I am out of tune with todays's costs. The whole system was just under $600 but I also had to pay towing to and from the shop. Hopefully this is the last time I will have to use towing! Turbo mufflers are about half the price of performance mufflers so I saved there and the shop said the turbos would be quieter and that will lessen complaints from the wife and yet still provide pretty good flow. One good thing is that this shop has worked on a lot of performance cars so they knew just what I wanted and actually there is no way I could have maneuvered the pipes the way they did around the SBC oil filter and my master cylinder. Using their pipe bender they made spaghetti out of those pipes! Another problem is that I have large brackets for the rear bumper so they could not put the pipes over the axle even though I have set the coilovers on the highest setting so they bent the pipes under the axle but still within the clearance carved out by the four bar brackets under the frame. If the fourbars clear the pipes will too, if not the four bar brackets will bottom out first. This was a major step forward for me and now I can spend time on the wiring. Thanks again for much help from folks on this Forum!
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
Don,Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Shillady
From what I can see it appears to be a very nice looking system. As far as $600 - probably about right with the current price of steel. My +/-$30 ten foot length of tubing is about doubled in price. The mandrel bent U and J bends I used have gone up a couple of dollars each. My $85 each Flowmaster mufflers are now ~$100. Then the cost of labor. And yes, I do recall gasoline at 5 gallons for a buck, then getting upset when Coke went to .06 (gasp!!) then looking at the bottom to see where the bottle really originated:LOL:
Talk about showing your age!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: Though I do remember as a high school kid when $.50 would get you a Coke, bag of peanuts, and a pack of smokes!!!!!:CRY: :CRY: :CRY:Quote:
Originally Posted by IC2
How much was beer back then? You guys only mention coke for a nickel.
Hot rod mag did a story in the last couple of months about this subject, they tested all different size pipes on the same car and if i recall right , the horsepower/ rpm range went up with the larger pipe diameter Ie with 1.75 was 300 horse at around 3500 rpm, but with 2.50 pipe it was 425 horse at around 5000 rpm. It was pretty consistant with the highest horse peaking at lower rpm with the smaller pipe, then gaining both with larger pipe diameter.Ill try to find the issue.
A case of Budwater was less then $4.00 and Cooraid was a regional drink and only popularized by Smoky and The Bandit movies in the '70sQuote:
Originally Posted by hotroddaddy
Since I haven't read a Hot Rod Magazine in years, for sure would have missed that article - plus in the last few years their credibility IMO seems to have slipped. I wish that I could find the formula that I used for mine - but it did come up with the 2.25 diameter
I had my local muffler shop bend 2 90 degree front pipes based on 2 crappy pipes and a cardboard sketch and measurements of what I wanted changed. He charged me $50.00 (the lowest charge he does) for what could have been a "No, we do not do custom work without the car" refusal. I haven't tried the pipes yet but he did do exactly as requested + throw in a couple of cast iron manifold flanges I could not find anywhere. If these pipes do not work, its my fault not his.
When my dad was young and lived in oregon he and his buddies would drive down to north cali just to get coors, cause they did not sell it there yet. that was way before smoky
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotroddaddy
Here in Colorado in the long ago times a sixer of Coors was $.98 +.02tax. For five bucks you could put gas in your car, get a sixer, take your date to the drive-in, get a couple of burgers and fries at the stand...and if you were real lucky..."get lucky" lol
Coors before Smokey wasn't sold East of the Mississippi - probably had some verbal agreement with Budwater or Miller or Piels or Yeungling. I thought it was a big deal and the regular stuff is even OK - then they started pushing that light near beer........:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by hotroddaddy
Guess I was wrong, the story was about header size not exhaust. Here is the results.
That brings back some ugly memories. In the summer of '62 my brother and I, along with a couple of buddies, got into the habit of going across the Mississippi to Rock Island to pick up a case, 12 quarts, of Canadian Ace beer (@ a $.25 a quart) Then we would each would buy a 1/2 pint of our favorite (mine was Hiram Walker Imperial), for $1.00.Quote:
Originally Posted by G.R.
$3.00 for beer,
$1.00 for the hard stuff
$1.25 for a large pepperoni hand tossed,
$1.00 for a bag of shrimp from the local choke and puke,
staying sick for the entire next day....Priceless.
The problem was we did it dang near every Saturday night all that summer. A kid just never learns. Now just the thoughts of that make me sick to my stomach.
John
Geez, I just reread this and I am not sure if I should admit to being that stupid.
Well maybe I hit it right with the 2.25" diameter just copying from IC2. The shop I went to did not use the H-pipe kit I bought from Speedway which I measured today and found it was 2.50" diameter. But I asked for 2.25" diameter and that is what I got. The initial system on my car is 1 5/8" diameter tight fit tubular headers with ceramic coating. For a shop, the welds are not that smooth but they are not visible unless you really look under the chassis. Back when I was really young on a full scholarship I invested in every book in my field that I could find and benefit even until today using those classic reference books but I still had a little money left and used to buy Bavarian brown beer at $6/six! Years later as a married family man on a budget I found "Old Milwaukee" for $1.97/six and that price held for quite a few years in the 1980s. There is a lot of attention paid to where water comes from for beer and the local beer where I grew up was Ballentine Three Ring for all the Philly games but Valley Forge beer in the suburbs which unfortunately drew it's water from the upper Schuykill river which at that time was at least 20% coal dust but the price was low; maybe the all the coal had a charcoal filtering effect? By the way "Todd", the top guy at the Economy Muffler shop, said he had personally done many, many dyno runs to optimize H-pipe position and pipe size and his opinion is that the H-pipe does nothing! That reminds me of the Preacher who had a horseshoe over his door for luck and one of his congregation wondered if he believed in the luck of the horseshoe. He replied that he did not believe in it but folks said that it worked even if you did not believe in it! Maybe that is how an H-pipe works?
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
WOW! Thats...aaa:rolleyes: ...a long time ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by G.R.
But more to the point. Check this
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...exhaust+tubing
I use the 2.5 inch and sandblast or wire wheel the aluminum coating off before I weld. Custom exhaust on a budget. 3" is better but hard to fit most chassis applications. A set of Flowmaster 40's is the "icing on the cake"
Good Luck
In a high RPM situation, the H pipe will probably not contribute much to the performance - if at all. An X pipe might. But what an H pipe will do in a standard driving situation will smooth out the exhaust pulses and probably make the exhaust note more tolerable. In a racing situation - that is engine RPM above a certain number, and for the sake of discussion, let's just use 5000 or above. That high RPM operation just wont allow the pulses/engine exhaust to bleed from one side to another as the speed of that exhaust just pushes it right on out and past the cross over tubing. Now with that said, how often in your driving, day to day do you run your car at an extended RPM operation? Open road driving, depending on transmission and diff. gears, 1800 to +/-2500 at 65mph. Town driving - maybe up to 3000 before the transmission shifts. So keeping that in mind, yes, Don, your guy is right, but.....you aren't driving your car on a dynomometer, nor are you often running it often, if ever, at full throttle. You want a nice sounding exhaust, you don't want annoying drone or resonance while you and your lady are touring the back roads of Virginia.
So far with the very little bit of engine operation for my car (yes, it does run:3dSMILE: ) the exhaust is a nice, almost too quiet rumble, no drone, but we'll see after a few hours more operation.
In the late 60's 6 packs ran $1-$1.50 depending on brand I drove for PBR around that time Draft was 25 cents and Large pitchers $1.25 to $1.50,but then we had smaller paychecks but with 28 cent gas you could buy more beer:D :pQuote:
Originally Posted by hotroddaddy