Help with a Stang...

Hey guys. I'm a new member to Club Hot Rod. I also relatively new at the whole rebuilding, car tuning thing. I try, but am not quite the professional yet. I have a 1975 Mustang II with a 140 in it. I get crap about it alot by the guys, but hey, I have a mustang. haha. Im not sure what ford was thinking, or what I was thinking when I bought it, but hey, its a car and it runs.

Anyways, I have the Mustang II Ghia. It came stock with the 140, but i was thinking of puting something a little bigger in it...possibly a 302. I ran into a little trouble with the rearend tho. I'm not sure what size to use. Thats a separate project though.

Right now, I am driving it with the 140, but it smokes blue really bad. I tried pouring some diesel down the spark plug holes and letting it set for a week before dry-firing it and cleaning the holes out. I was hoping that would loosen the rings and clean everything up a little to help cut back on the smoke/oil usage but it didn't work. Any ideas??? It gets good mileage and i would love to drive it back and forth from college!!!

Like i said, I'm new at this. I hope I'm not too dumb for you guys.

Once they start smoking there is almost no "cure in a can" that you can add to fix them up. The engine is just not seating in the rings, but probably the valve guides and more.

You could try a heavier weight oil, like straight 40 to see if that helps. I have also kept cars alive with a few cans of STP in the crankcase. I know lots of mechanics will shudder at that suggestion, but I kept a Pontiac 389 alive with 3 pounds of oil pressure for a few months until I could tear it down.

The 302 swap is a natural, in fact, didn't Ford make a Mach I version or something with this engine in the MM II already?

Good luck, and welcome to the forum.

Don

Thanks Don! Yes, I'm sure Ford did make MMII. They made a Mustang II stock with a 4cylinder, 6cylinder, and the 302. I've been told that the 4 cylinder has a smaller rear-end though...not really sure. One guy told me if I didn't change the rear-end with the engine swap, I'd tear it apart really quick.

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

The 302 swap is a natural, in fact, didn't Ford make a Mach I version or something with this engine in the MM II already?
Don

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The King Cobra's had V8's

The 302 was available for the Mustang II in 75-78 (sorry, no factory V8 in 74). Parts for the swap are available, as is a 8" rear end for the V8 equipped cars, while the 4-6cyl cars used a 6 3/4" rear end which will be short lived in any V8 application.


Bill S.

So an 8" rear end is all i really have to worry about? I'm assuming the swap will go kosher as long as i change the pilot bearing and the rearend. Will the stock 4 speed trasmission still be ok?

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Originally Posted by TuffTrax

So an 8" rear end is all i really have to worry about? I'm assuming the swap will go kosher as long as i change the pilot bearing and the rearend. Will the stock 4 speed trasmission still be ok?

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the 140/ 2.3 4cyl retains the same bell housing, but I'm not sure if the transmission is a standard T4 4spd, if it is, it could hold the power but it could be a light duty unit and blow up..

you want the truth, I'd get another 2.3 block, start building a turbo motor. 2.3's respond well to turbocharging and Ford did it from the factory in the T birds... 2-300 HP and 20-25 MPG if you keep your foot out of it.:)

I like your way of thinking on the turbo charged 2.3L. Is that a very hard, expensive, and time consuming job? I guess I've never really heard anything about turbocharging. Is it just performance parts or what? I'm not really sure of all the little secrets...let alone some of the building.

I've thought about it. I've heard so many diff things. One guy advised me to put a 4 barrel and a header on my 2.3. Here i'm getting ideas of turbocharging. They both sound like good ideas. I've thought about a 2.8 but nobody has every really given me any spectacular reason to go with one i guess...its always about the 2.3 or the 5.0. I guess that's why i'm here asking for your guys input. I'm looking for some speed, and mileage, yet affordable. Afterall, I am a college student.

The old 200 cu in straight sixs get good gas milage, have decent torque and if it's just for commuting, get great gas milage! My mom has a 69 6cl 200, with a three speed. Fun old car!:D

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Originally Posted by DennyW

The 6 would be cool...is there enough room ? Your adding 2 more cylinders in length. I can't remember right off. :)

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IIRC the 200 I6 is 3 37" measuring front to back across the block face.. I measured mine a while back when I was rebuilding it

"...as is a 8" rear end for the V8 equipped cars, while the 4-6cyl cars used a 6 3/4" rear end which will be short lived in any V8 application...."


True Bill except a lot of the V6 cars also came with the 8".

The V8 (289/302) is pretty much a bolt in with.....bigger radiator, V8 springs, V8 Frame perches and motor mounts. The Mustang IIs had a unique (smaller) bellhousing flywheel/flexplate for both 4 spd and C4 cars than the standard V8 cars and as such also a special pan with clearance for the starter, however a standard oil pan and bellhousing can be made to work.

A nice addition for the V8 cars is the "performance suspension package" 1" front and 1/2" rear sway bars.

THe V8 RAD 4 speed is heavier duty when compared to the 4 and 6 Cyl units but they still break. A RUG 4 spd OD from an 82-3 mustang is a good unit even behind a 351.

Here's my wifes 74 2.3 auto car, my dailey driver 351/4sp car, and the old Cobra II we had a few years ago.

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Originally Posted by TuffTrax

I like your way of thinking on the turbo charged 2.3L. Is that a very hard, expensive, and time consuming job? I guess I've never really heard anything about turbocharging. Is it just performance parts or what? I'm not really sure of all the little secrets...let alone some of the building.

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just get the cyl head and turbo from a Thunderbird Turbo coupe.. they were factory stock 2.3 turbos and the stuff will bolt to your block.. and theres room for upgrades w/ the Tbird setups.


Turbocharging is not cheap tho. I'm working on a Turbocharged Ford 200 I6 and I built the engine for the turbocharger to get the most out of it.. I'm in it $6k so far but that's for the rebuilt engine, new fuel system, ignition system, Turbo piping, intercooler ( turbo was free ) ect...

Nothing cheap about putting a turbo on a 4 cylinder!!!! For the same or less money with the combos Mike suggested you can swap to a V-8 quite easily and cost efficiently. Switching to a 6, be it an I-6 or a V-6 is probably going to be just as expensive or possibly even more then a V-8 swap. Resale considered, a V-8 Mustang of that vintage will attract more buyers then a weezy old 6 popper.....

Lots of V-8 conversion parts around cheap, check eBay and other resale sources.... If you're going to go to the work and expense of switching engines, might as well go for the gusto!!!! Or, as they say on TV....."I could have had a V-8!!!!!"

Puting a SB Ford on a diet is a little pricey, but not a big deal. My 351 car is actually lighter than it was with the 302. Aluminum head, aluminum intake, Optima Battery, Sanden compressor (yes it has AC). With the sway bar package it actually handles and rides considerably better than the wifes 2.3 car and is A LOT more fun to drive.

At 75 with the OD trans it actually gets about 3 MPG more the the 2.3.

Besides what you you rather see when you open the hood,

a 2.3

a reasonably stock SB (I went the sleeper route on the 351, stock valve cover and painted the heads and intake)

or a dressed out SB

What to do with your car is of course your choice. Do you need it for everyday transportation,or can you lay it up for a few weeks while tweeking things out? If you are serious about putting in some power,I'd locate and install the 8 in. rear first,as it would be an easy weekend swap. As to what engine, I'd say go with what you can get for the best price. Even a 2.3 can be made into a tire burner,with cam ,carb, headwork and a good header. Hank

Then... there is always the just buy one with a bigger engine than what you got, and sell yours idea. It might be a hell of a lot cheaper than converting yours over, for the difference in price of what you sell yours for and what a v-6 or v8 one costs. Those old mustangs were mass produced, and still go for a low dollar price tag. Just a thought, but if your in to doing it yourself, a small block v-8 can be found abuilt fairly cheap.:D

I have the 4 speed manual tranny in mine. i have a 302 block, but it needs everything else, including being rebuilt. i figured it would be cheaper to tinker with the 140 thats already running while building up the 302...that way i can drive it all the while it takes to build up a V-8 and acquire parts such as a rearend and tranny. its not my everyday driver, just one for fun. Its fun to beat a 6 or 8 cylinder with a 4. It really gets guys wondering. haha.

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Originally Posted by TuffTrax

I have the 4 speed manual tranny in mine. i have a 302 block, but it needs everything else, including being rebuilt. i figured it would be cheaper to tinker with the 140 thats already running while building up the 302...that way i can drive it all the while it takes to build up a V-8 and acquire parts such as a rearend and tranny. its not my everyday driver, just one for fun. Its fun to beat a 6 or 8 cylinder with a 4. It really gets guys wondering. haha.

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here you go then.

http://racerwalsh.zoovy.com/

If you can find a '79 or later 2.3 Turbo cheap, that's the way to go. The standard 2.3 is a poor relation to the turbo version. The turbo version had a forged crank and pistons, a set of special rods and other minor odds and ends. The basic 2.3 can be built up to be virtually as indestructible as the turbo engie - all you need is money. Unfortunately, the major downfall of these engines is, of course the turbo as they didn't have an "after run" oiling system to cool the housing - so the bearings would make funny screeching noises if you didn't let the engine idle (like it said in the owners manual) for a minute or more. Several hundred parts dollars and up to a days worth of labor later you were back in business. My son did me in - I parked the car, then left for a job in Saudi Arabia. But did that car run !!!!:3dSMILE:

Then there were the intercooled Mustang and T'Bird versions that were even better.:eek: :D :D

Myself, and at this time, I find a V8 donor car(Maverick/Comet, '79 or later Fox bodied maybe), would jack your body up and slide all that good heavier duty stuff in place.

getting alot of good ideas here guys. thanks! im not sure what i'll do just yet. i might just go with the 2.3 and try to make it as good as i can, whether it be a turbo or a 4 barrel and a header...but it does definately need to be rebuilt. not sure yet. ur ideas are all floatin in my head. maybe i'll keep this guy roughly what he is and put more work into my 410. i have hopes of getting that goin too and puting it into a smaller car such as a cougar. keep the ideas coming guys...they are great! i need all the input i can get.

I never realized how hard it is to find a thunderbird turbo or even the turbo and cylinder head...mite have to go another route...

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Originally Posted by TuffTrax

I never realized how hard it is to find a thunderbird turbo or even the turbo and cylinder head...mite have to go another route...

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There is a listing for a NOS turbo head for $150 here

http://www.mustangsvo.org/classifieds/classifieds.html

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Originally Posted by TuffTrax

I never realized how hard it is to find a thunderbird turbo or even the turbo and cylinder head...mite have to go another route...

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in my neck of the woods there dime a dozen. whole cars for about $500 all the time.. my grandfather even got 1 free a few years ago, he drove it for a year and then sold it for somthing like $600 after he fixed it up a little

i wish thats the way it was around here, but i live in the boondocks in north dakota. i can about imagine what its like in new york...

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Originally Posted by TuffTrax

i wish thats the way it was around here, but i live in the boondocks in north dakota. i can about imagine what its like in new york...

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keep an eye out on Ebay and Craigs list for entire cars.. some people might pull the engine/ trans for you and ship just that. if you ask them. if you got the whole car, Tbird coupes have T5 5spds so you could have an upgraded trans too.

Would this Thunderbird 2.3 SVO XR4Ti IHI Turbo be sufficient? I found it on ebay. He said he was keeping the engine for his other turbo though...but would be willing to sell the tranny. It cheap so far. Would this and a cylinder head from a 2.3 turbo do the trick?

keep the boost low but yes, that would do the trick... factory turbo blocks did have forged cranks and pistions but the stock cast stuff will hold, just don't get crazy with the boost

What do you boys think of this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Merku...spagenameZWDVW

Snatch it up, it'll do the trick

Hey guys. I've done some thinking and have gone to work on this project. Here's what I've done thus far:

I tore down the engine and got everything cleaned up. The next step was taking it to the machine shop. My dad used the same machinist for 30-some-odd-years so I felt he was credible enough. He bored the block to 0.03 but still had a little ridge so continued to bore it to 0.04. There is no ridge left now. The block was bored and honed and then hot-tank rinsed to remove all oil and grease, etc.

Next came the crank. Henry, my machinist said the crank looked and measured up alright. He polished it up anyway.

The head was next on the list. My buddy has a shop not too far from my home. Just a mechanic shop, but they have a head planer. I've got him planing the head and knurling the valves...maybe some new vavle guides. Depends on how it looks i guess. I also got a new cam. I purchased a Comp Cam with a lift of 410 and the duration is somewhere around 255 i believe.

I had Henry order up a master kit for me after he finished the machining. With that I got all the parts u usually do, but i upgraded to some forged pistons...more compression = more happiness. haha.

Basically Ive got a some performance parts and when its all said and done should be happy. Planning on getting a header, and possibly a 390 or 500 cfm carb. Maybe a turbo in the future, but i've heard turbo carbureted engines aren't worth it...better off with fuel injected engine.

Any other ideas to spin off of this would be great. Thanks for all your help. PS. Will my stock oval port itake work with a 390 or even a 500cfm?

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Originally Posted by TuffTrax

i've heard turbo carbureted engines aren't worth it...better off with fuel injected engine.

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people that tell you this, don't know how to tune a carb for boost

i can't say too much on that topic cuz i don't either. im trying, but its my first time. learnin from some stupid mistakes tho...

Hey guys. Got the car up and running. sounds like a mean machine with the exhaust off. haha. anyways, i love it. any ideas on how to help lower the rpms? im running about 3250 at 65mph. bigger tire maybe???

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Originally Posted by TuffTrax

Hey guys. Got the car up and running. sounds like a mean machine with the exhaust off. haha. anyways, i love it. any ideas on how to help lower the rpms? im running about 3250 at 65mph. bigger tire maybe???

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What in the world rear gears are in it - sounds like mid 4's??

I was thinking the same thing Dave. I've been trying to figure out where I want the the rear ratio at, and have decided around 3:1 should keep the RPM's down on the freeway!
Mike post a video of it running! Great to hear progress of this sort!

Hey guys. I believe my rear ratio is 3.18 or 3.4...not exactly sure though. I wanted to put a 5 speed in, but then i'd have to modify the driveshaft. Thinkin maybe gears and wheels would be cheaper??? I don't know. I just want the rpms to stay a little lower. Better mileage goin back and forth from college...

Neither ratio would put you at 3450 RPM - unless you had your little brother's 12" wagon wheels on it - tho 3.40 is a common Ford ratio.

RPMs run 3250 at 65mph. The tires i have now are 185s on a 13 inch rim. Thinkin about goin up to a 15 inch rim, but hard to find a 4 bolt pattern that size...or any size for that matter. I found a 5 speed tranny, but then i'd have to do some driveshaft work...

Maybe you can help me out with this. I called back home (Im back in college) and had my dad get the tag code from the rear differential. I don't know if its stock or not. Could you guys help me decode it? From what i've got, the tag reads GF-R5EC5567 231D. I'm not totally sure on all the spaces, but thats the number anyhow. Help Please!!!