Engine for 30 "A" Truck project

I am in the planning stages of a Model A Truck project and need some advice.
My experience is with the early Mustangs and because of this, I would like to put in a 289 with a C4 Tranny and a 9 inch rear with 4 11 gears.
My father thinks the 289 will be too long and narrow for the engine compartment. He thinks I should use a "Y" block with a thunderbird dress up kit. I know next to nothing about "Y" blocks, and realy don't like the way they look. When I asked if I could have one of his flat head engines he said that I would easily spend 6grand getting it set up and running, compared to the 1500 it would take to get the "Y" block going.

All I want is a dependable, fuel efficient, sporty, good sounding hot rod with out taking my Toyota apart and creating an abomination. I think I can do it with a 289.

Any suggestions?

The Ford engines are longer than a comparable Chev engine, but I see a lot of model A's running Ford engines. I do know that the cab is incredibly tight on a model A truck, and for every inch of firewall recess that you have to put in to accomodate a long engine, you pay a big penalty in foot room. That being said, I think that pound for pound, the 289 mustang engine makes a lot more power than any Y-block.---as far as being too narrow, I don't think so.

I have a 302 in a model A framed '27, so the swap would be similar. True, they are a little longer but also narrower. Recent developments have made it easier to do, the biggest help coming from shortened water pump kits that trim about 1.5 to 2 inches off the snout.

Mine is an original Model A frame that I boxed and modified with lots of crossmembers to take out the inherent twist they are known for. I used a Speedway engine crossmember, and Speedway transmission crossmember, welded into place. I am running a 3 speed stickshift, but a C4 or other automatic would be even easier due to no clutch linkage needed.

It makes a great swap, although you may have to cut into the firewall a little. The Ford is a little lighter than the 350 Chevy, and at shows people would walk up all the time and say "glad to see a Ford in there instead of another Chevy." Ford engines are a little more to build, but nowhere what the flathead would be.

Hope some of these pictures help you out.

Don

PS: When I built the car about 17 years ago short water pumps were not available, so mine is stock.......and very long. When I redo the car I am going to go with a shortened one.

:rolleyes: Put a 289 in it. As Don said, there are new choices for making it work. WIth a C-4 and 4.11 gears, you won't be sorry. (This is coming from a chevy guy)

It makes a great swap, although you may have to cut into the firewall a little.
A little??? Come on Don---I had to recess the firewall in the Wild Canary 4" to get a small block Chev in there. I would think that if you run a stock wheelbase and a stock length hood you would need a minimum 6" recess for a Ford engine with stock waterpump, even running an electric fan. I have it floating around somewhere in my head that a stock Ford engine is 3" longer than a Chev smallblock with a short waterpump on it.---Brian

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Originally Posted by brianrupnow

It makes a great swap, although you may have to cut into the firewall a little.
A little??? Come on Don---I had to recess the firewall in the Wild Canary 4" to get a small block Chev in there. I would think that if you run a stock wheelbase and a stock length hood you would need a minimum 6" recess for a Ford engine with stock waterpump, even running an electric fan. I have it floating around somewhere in my head that a stock Ford engine is 3" longer than a Chev smallblock with a short waterpump on it.---Brian

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good point Brian, but with the Ford, you don't need all the extra room above and behind the block for the distributor so it kind of balance out on the room thing.... The oil pan is another concern, but for the 289/302 engines the truck pan with the rear sump makes it doable, too....

Also, the short water pump really helps with fitment, too! or, maybe some long stainless tubes and a rear mounted radiator with the appropriate shrouding and ducting??????

I know better than to argue with Dave Severson--But----The "pocket" needed for the Chev distributor is up above "foot height" anyways, so doesn't impose such a trememdous "footroom penalty". The extra space needed by a Ford engine is right in the "gotcha" area around the bell housing and the back of the heads.----right where your darned feets gotta go!!!

This water pump give you about 1-1/2" of extra space.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
Not much, but ever little bit helps.

a 4.3 chevy V6 ? them small v6 run like hell in boats i would use one out of a boat if you could find one ? if not a 350 chevy they fit

Pat--You may very well have a point. I bought a 98 Chev new with a V6 engine in it, and had it up untill last year. That friggin thing had awesome power and acceleration, for a 6 cylinder. It truly did feel like a V8. I thought at the time that it would really make a great model A engine/automatic transmission package. I think though that this fellow already has a stable of Ford engines.

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Originally Posted by brianrupnow

I know better than to argue with Dave Severson--But----The "pocket" needed for the Chev distributor is up above "foot height" anyways, so doesn't impose such a trememdous "footroom penalty". The extra space needed by a Ford engine is right in the "gotcha" area around the bell housing and the back of the heads.----right where your darned feets gotta go!!!

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How feasible would it be to relocate the radiator??? Some race cars run them horizontally with ducting and fans, others have rear mounts, old Indy cars had them in the side pods.... Your RPU, for example, would there have been room elsewhere to mount the radiator and duct air to it, then some stainless tubes to move the water back and forth? Just one of those out of the box what if discussions, I guess????

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

a 4.3 chevy V6 ? them small v6 run like hell in boats i would use one out of a boat if you could find one ? if not a 350 chevy they fit

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Heck, look what the 3.8's used to do in NASCAR racing, or the 3.8 with the superchargers????

Dave---A guy over on the HAMB is running what I think is a 34 Ford with the radiator in the trunk area. He pipes water to it with an auxiliary pump, has a louvered trunk lid, and dual pusher fans to pull air from under the car and up thru the radiator. I have seen another with the radiator in the bed of a pickup. I don't know how succesfully they run, but yes, it has been done.

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Originally Posted by brianrupnow

Dave---A guy over on the HAMB is running what I think is a 34 Ford with the radiator in the trunk area. He pipes water to it with an auxiliary pump, has a louvered trunk lid, and dual pusher fans to pull air from under the car and up thru the radiator. I have seen another with the radiator in the bed of a pickup. I don't know how succesfully they run, but yes, it has been done.

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Just another of those deals that is on my list of things to try some day.... I have this V-10 Ford engine that is long, wide, and tall and I think someday it would look drop dead kewl in a slinky looking super low roadster!!! Way down on the priority list, but it takes my poor old brain a considerable amount of time to even began formulating the concept!!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

About 20 years ago one of the hot rod magazines (I think Rod and Custom) did a series buildup on an orange, full fendered Model A with a 302/C4 in it. The project was entitled "California Orange." This was before short water pump kits, and they got it in there rather easily, with no major chopping of the firewall.

I'll try to find the article and post it (my Son Don bought me a scanner, so I am out of the dark ages............now I just have to figure out how to use it :D ) It went into pretty detailed info on what all they did to get the engine and tranny in there, and it ran well when completed, according to the wrapup article they did.

Don

You guys have been a great help. Once I get started on this, I will be sure to put on some pictures for you.

If you not going to run a hood a 94 - 95 mustang serpentine accessory drive is a short water pump . Getting it under a hood is a challenge if your going to run A/C . I am cutting the power steering side and rewelding A/C to the top . If you just run Alternator its a piece of cake . Pic shows it under hood on my A. This puts the 5.0 at the same length as a 350 and gains the move forward . The firewall will only be recessed about 3 or so inches .