Timing gear instal on 400M

I got a new timing set for the 400M I am putting in my truck.

How difficult is it to change the timing set on a Ford M motor? Are the gears pressed on? Am I likely to break something?

I got a set with multiple keyways. I was told if I change the timing I can recover some performance lost due to emissions controls. I am using an aftermarket 4 barrel and non emissions intake. If I change the timing on the gear set I need to degree the camshaft correct? What would be the ideal setting for the timing set for a non egr/emissions motor?

Thanks,
CHAZ

So what I am gathering I cannot replace the timing set and change the timing without replacing the camshaft as well? Maybe I will put it back together stock for now and possibly do the cam later. If I do the cam I will do roller rockers, and then I should just rebuild the whole motor!
CHAZ

I can replace the timing set, which I plan to do, but I need to leave it set at the same timing specs as stock in order to avoid problems?
CHAZ

cams in the Smog era were ground as much as 3* of retard, so if you figured that your cam had 3* of retard, you could advance the timing with the timing set 2* and pick up a few HP, and still be where you want to be.

I don't remember if the 400 M's were retarded on the cam or not. I don't really see any reason you couldn't set the cam in their straight up???? Unless Denny or somebody knows of a situation on a 400 M that a straight up cam wouldn't work.... Just replacing a worn chain and gear does a lot to help the performance on a high mileage engine....

I have a 400M out of a 1977 Lincoln. It had all the first generation smog crap on it, it is all gone now! I have an aftermarket 4 barrel and intake.

I believe that my new timing set has three key ways, one at 0, one at 4 plus and one at 4-, does that sound right (I am not at home to look).

OK, help me wrap my mind around this. When the stock timing set is lined up mark to mark, it will be at 6 degrees of retard, only one keyway, only one setting. If I put the new timing set in at 0, it will be set at 0, and I will have advanced the timing 6 degrees?

Will the cam need to be "degreed?" This is a task I have already decided is outside of my ability.

Thanks,
CHAZ

Psssttt Denny doesn't that show the camshaft advanced? If you're looking from the front? (the retarded pic)

Cool! It just caught my eye there. Wanted to ask a stealthy kinda of question about it....OOPS I forgot this is read by everyone....:LOL: :LOL:

Put the chain on there and set it strait up. To my knowledge, you can only do this with after market timing sets, as a stock replacement (NAPA or Autozone replacements) will retain the retarded timing. Visit the 335 series engine forum here: http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum54/ Anything and everything you would ever want to know on these engines is there, including the fact that there is no "M" behind the 400. Only the 351 had designators such as C/M/W, there was only one Ford 400.

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Originally Posted by nitrowarrior

Psssttt Denny doesn't that show the camshaft advanced? If you're looking from the front? (the retarded pic)

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I had to stop and think about it too, but if you advance the crank sprocket in relation to the camshaft sprocket, then you're effectively retarding the cam timing. If retarding the crank sprocket, you're advancing the cam timing.

Advancing the crank sprocket retards the crank on the marks, thus advancing the cam. Retarding the crank sprocket, advances the crank, thus retarding the cam. (Psst, Richard look at Denny's picture again....Thanks bud for your deligence) I know it gets confusing but we play with the gears to change relationships with the cam and crank. Remember we still align the marks together and then you will notice a different position of the crank from straight up. That's why there are three marks for a three keyed crank gear.

No Denny, your pic is now right. Most right minds think of beer this time of day too! :LOL:

Ah, the Zen of beer!

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Originally Posted by DennyW

Check this out for the letters. :)

http://www.projectbronco.com/History..._ford_351m.htm

Actually, the 351C (cleveland), and the 400M, which has some different meanings, did stand for modified. Since it was a 351C, but, internals were different, and beefier in places, thus modified. Call it a nick name if you want. I know when I ordered parts from Ford, they would ask if it was the modified engine. :) This guy in the link above is Wrong !!

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I've come to the conclusion, having owned and worked on numerous M-Blocks, that there are alot of truths and myths out there about these engines.
Here's more info for those that might be interested:

http://home.earthlink.net/~bubbaf250/index.html.

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Originally Posted by nitrowarrior

Ah, the Zen of beer!

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every good backyard mechanic has to drink beer... or else their projects would be more or less just tasks :LOL:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nitrowarrior

Advancing the crank sprocket retards the crank on the marks, thus advancing the cam. Retarding the crank sprocket, advances the crank, thus retarding the cam. (Psst, Richard look at Denny's picture again....Thanks bud for your deligence) I know it gets confusing but we play with the gears to change relationships with the cam and crank. Remember we still align the marks together and then you will notice a different position of the crank from straight up. That's why there are three marks for a three keyed crank gear.

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Yep, you're right, my bad :whacked:

It's cool Richard.....just say that you didn't have your glasses on! :LOL:

I didn't have my glasses on. :)

On a 400M the retard is in the timing chain set. just get a good aftermarket set and set it up and you will be good to go. the 400 gets a bad rep due to it being a smog motor but with todays cams and better intakes these engines respond alot better than some think