Too......Much........Carbon!

Hey guys. I have yet another question for the Ford gurus. The town car that i just bought for my father has a problem that is driving me Nuts! its a 1983 Lincoln Town Car with a 302 TBI hooked to an AOD metric. The problem is that its dumping too much fuel. It runs strong, but it spews carbon out throughout the driving range. I put a scanner on the thing and diddnt get any codes. Also, it tends to bog down if you get into it. Finally, it has a hard time idling when its up to temp. I bought an o2 sensor tonight that'll go in tomorrow afternoon. But does anyone else have any suggestions? Im stuck on this one:confused:

Oh, a bit of information i forgot. This thing has non-adjustible timing.

sounds like to me who ever had it first did a lot of in town driving. try a can of Top Engine cleaner for the carbon. as far as the timing go the computer should take care of that, but there is a base timing, but its only a ref. point. ford had some conv. problems, and it might not be carbon you see, but conv. breaking up. :HMMM:

The injectors could be dribbling fuel, check for O-ring leaks. Just changing the O2 sensor won't help, the carbon will soon wreck it.

Doesnt seem like its convertor damage. As for the injectors leaking, thats a possibility. And top engine cleaner, thats like fuel injector cleaner?:confused: Luckilly, i diddnt place the 02 sensor in today. I was stripping down the merc. Oh, and if anyone wants a 87 grand marquis body, ask for it now:LOL::LOL::LOL:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by drg84
Doesnt seem like its convertor damage. As for the injectors leaking, thats a possibility. And top engine cleaner, thats like fuel injector cleaner?:confused: Luckilly, i diddnt place the 02 sensor in today. I was stripping down the merc. Oh, and if anyone wants a 87 grand marquis body, ask for it now:LOL::LOL::LOL:

---

more of a carbon cleaner. i run it through the intake while the motor is running. water will do the same thing if you know what not to do. GM sales the top engine

Well on an 83 Town car it shouldn't even have the option to use a scanner. That should have an EEC III engine control system on it. A scanner wasn't used until Ford switched to an EEC IV system. It's been a while since iv'e tested one but you had to pull a vacuum on the MAP sensor three consecutive times to enter the test mode than count the light flashing , or something like that.
This might be a wild shot but I have came across a few of them that had similar concerns and found it to be a faulty Fuel Injector Driver located on the PCM. I noticed that usually one Inector stops working all together making it very sluggish and has poor idle quality. See if the injectors are both spraying after it starts acting up. If this is what happens then I would replace this, it unbolts from the main Powertrain Control Module. The other thing that might make it run rich is the MAP sensor, they are a common problem too in those earlier years of the evil EEC III era Powertrain Controls.
Hope the info helps you out.
Luke

check fuel pressure and volume.

if somebody has put a cold thermostate in the motor that will make it run rich also. been there done that. need at least 195 or it will flood it.
when you change something on a gm car the next time you crank it you would tell the dif, but on a ford it has what we called a slow learn computer where you would need to start the motor put it in gear x many times so the computer could make the changes, so if the ford dont respond the first crank up that dont mean nothing. after you change something elec. on the car take the bat. cable off for a few min. also to clear the computer.

Change out the intake air temp. sensor.
very common problem on those with the exact symptoms your'e having, sensor costs about $18 bucks, its located in the rear driver side intake runner......
when ya pull the old one out it will be loaded up with gunk....

Yeah, i noticed that sensor was there. Did they phase that out in the newer multiports? Cause i never saw it on the 87. As for the cold thermostat, im not betting on that one cause it would run rich when it gets warm, not when its cold. That dude, the EEC IV system came into effect during the conversion to EFI. And yes, you can use a scanner. The diagnostic port is on the passanger side fender. Randywrench, I diddnt even know that you were still here! :) I did notice the fuel pressure was a bit low and that the fuel filter was stock, so i have a new one. But being busy, this is a tomorrow project. As for the injector driver, it seems that both of them are firing evenly. I'd like to thank everyone whos interested in my case.:)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by drg84
Yeah, i noticed that sensor was there. Did they phase that out in the newer multiports? Cause i never saw it on the 87. As for the cold thermostat, im not betting on that one cause it would run rich when it gets warm, not when its cold. That dude, the EEC IV system came into effect during the conversion to EFI. And yes, you can use a scanner. The diagnostic port is on the passanger side fender. Randywrench, I diddnt even know that you were still here! :) I did notice the fuel pressure was a bit low and that the fuel filter was stock, so i have a new one. But being busy, this is a tomorrow project. As for the injector driver, it seems that both of them are firing evenly. I'd like to thank everyone whos interested in my case.:)

---

you said it was dumping fuel. :confused:

It is. Its sending too much fuel down the intake. The injectors are firing evenly, just too long. Or too much. Not sure how that works exactly:confused:

Bad MAP sensor can cause these problems. Check the vacuum line
for cracks or blockage.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by drg84
Yeah, i noticed that sensor was there. Did they phase that out in the newer multiports? Cause i never saw it on the 87. As for the cold thermostat, im not betting on that one cause it would run rich when it gets warm, not when its cold. That dude, the EEC IV system came into effect during the conversion to EFI. And yes, you can use a scanner. The diagnostic port is on the passanger side fender. Randywrench, I diddnt even know that you were still here! :) I did notice the fuel pressure was a bit low and that the fuel filter was stock, so i have a new one. But being busy, this is a tomorrow project. As for the injector driver, it seems that both of them are firing evenly. I'd like to thank everyone whos interested in my case.:)

---

Most all use an air temp sensor,but most of em won't effect the run like them old fords will,lots of em are in the air intake snorkel or air filter housing, Thermostat is very important on anything puter controlled as they hafta see 180-190 before they go into closed loop (i.e. control ) anything is possible with the ecm but since the onset of puter cars in 1980 I can probally count on my fingers the puters I've had to replace,and the majority of em where G.M. and any thing with a Mitsubishi puter....

Quote:

---

Originally posted by HWORRELL
Most all use an air temp sensor,but most of em won't effect the run like them old fords will,lots of em are in the air intake snorkel or air filter housing, Thermostat is very important on anything puter controlled as they hafta see 180-190 before they go into closed loop (i.e. control ) anything is possible with the ecm but since the onset of puter cars in 1980 I can probally count on my fingers the puters I've had to replace,and the majority of em where G.M. and any thing with a Mitsubishi puter....

---

i was just thinking about what you said about the computers HWORRELL, when they first came out shops blamed everything on the computer and it never fix anything. GM had a run on them in the late 80's that had some bad ones, but sense then there hasn't been a problem.

Ah, the great computer conflict. Anyway, i checked the thermostat and its is a 190. So i think that can be ruled out. Just out of curiosity, what is the plugs i have to jump to get the dippy light flash codes? It has a 4 plug style connector. Quite frankly, i dont trust my code scanner. Yet again, thanks for the help guys. I havent really gotten as much time on this thing as i would have liked, but a guys gotta work, and thats been 56 hour weeks lately:(. I'll tell you when i get it fixed.

Dave:)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by drg84
Yeah, i noticed that sensor was there. Did they phase that out in the newer multiports? Cause i never saw it on the 87. As for the cold thermostat, im not betting on that one cause it would run rich when it gets warm, not when its cold. That dude, the EEC IV system came into effect during the conversion to EFI. And yes, you can use a scanner. The diagnostic port is on the passanger side fender.

---

Wow-wee, threw some pretty good chops in that one for me, but I do believe I can still help you out if you just put down the big ego. How to test EEC III and code chart. just check out

www.tomco-inc.com/Tech_Tips/ttt3.pdf

Oh and by the way the Air Charge Temp sensor is now located inside the MAF sensor on Fords.I guess working in a Ford/Lincoln/Mercury dealer for the last 16yrs may have tought me a few things on repairing them, anyway good luck!

Sorry bout that dude. I had the chart for my diagnostic scanner and it registers a EECIV. Then again, I should only trust 1/2 of what i read. ;). So, No Ego intended, and thanks for the chart.:)

No problem man
Luke

Thanks for the info denny. But, oddly enough, i dont have the ECM style connector listed. This is a simple strip with 4 female connection points. Sort of like the 6 connector style usually seen minus the top 2. But, in any sense, it doesnt really matter. I found a few things were causing the problem. 1)the left injector was partially plugged causing the right side to have to pulse heavier. 2)Low fuel pressure easily fixed by the filter and finally,3) the 02 sensor was completly Shot due to the long time fouling out. Thanks for the help guys. I appreciate it:)