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I am thinking about doing a 347 in this 302 of mine in my 66 when it is time for a rebuild... Any pro's or con's I should look at with a 347 stroker kit, etc? Is boring the 302 this much to make a 347 too much to make the block not last so long or what? I have a Ford book I bought all on stroked small blocks and am really considering doing this once I learn more about them.
Thanks a lot for any info.
To me, it's a matter of return for the money. Yank the 302, bolt in a boneyard 460 and you'll have way more power for way less money. That's just how I look at things.
Right, factory cubes are much cheaper. A 351 Windsor, for example.
Well reason I ask this is because I have a lot of money just put into this 302 now. Well not TONS but I just bought a new intake manifold, new carb, all new hoses, valve covers, it has a big cam in it and some other things. Would kinda suck to just buy a big block and then have to start over again. Plus this is my everyday driver, I dont need a huge gas guzzler. Just something with a lot of HP but good for street and on gas. The 48 is going to have the big block in it....
"big cam"........."this is my everyday driver"
Whoops!!!
Yeah I know but I didn't put it in. Two owners before me did it and I don't even know the size of it. All I do know is that it's not like a more mild edelbrock performer cam... bigger than that because it rumbles pretty good. My dad said he had some radical cams in his cars at times and that mine is pretty big it seems.
The 347's are a nice motor. Nothing sez you couldn't run the 347 in it til you find and build a 460 (or whatever). Then save the 347 for another project. In that year of pickup an FE motor would be nice, but I guess I just like the FE's
How much more gas does a FE motor drink compaired to a 302 or 347, much more or not too much of a difference.
FE's are notorious gas hogs. Don't go there if you want double-digit gas mileage.
If you want a daily driver, and you want a Ford engine, your better off just doing a good rebuild on your current 302. Is it due for a rebuild? Sounds like someone has already rebuilt it for you, or did they not touch the bottom end when they did the cam/intake/carb swap?
I have no clue on the motor. The guy said the owner before him drag raced the truck some, rebuilt the motor and he had the truck sit. The guy bought it, put it back on the street with 2 bbl carb, stock intake manifold, etc. I put a new intake manifold on it, new 500cfm performer series carb on it, etc and changed new gaskets on manifold and valve covers, etc of course and now I don't gear the cam so much, it's pretty quite now but you can still hear it some and it still rocks pretty good. The headers I am sure have leaks too because they are old crappy looking so that will make it sound more rumbly in a way too (hard to explain the sound). But yeah I think I may stay with this motor and do a rebuild later on. The guy I bought it from said he has had it for about 5 years and he never drives it much, just once in a while (1 time every two weeks sometimes more but not far at all) and said that it should last a TON more miles. I bought it from my old metals manufactoring teacher and I can trust him, it's just he doesn't know much about motors, he said it's been all rebuilt and that's all he knows but the pistons and cam are not stock. I am going to build me that compression test thing that Denny sent me the plans for and see if there are any leaks (leak down test I meant) and see how well they are holding. I am thinking that it's burning a little oil because every 3 weeks or so I am a quart low and I don't leak much oil at all, probably 2 tiny drops of oil on the driveway when I park it and that's it.
I just wanted to know basically if going to 347 is pushing the wall thickness a little too much on a 302 LTD block. Also, any idea if these LTD blocks are any good. My father said he would think that it's good because LTD's were pretty big heavy family cars and they would need a strong block. I have that book here and they have a huge list of different places to buy the 347 kits from and tell the pros and cons of each ones, which ones to use if you run nitrous or a blower, etc but they all run 2000-2500 and I have seen them for 1000 and I think Dave or someone on here told me a guy on Ebay sells them for 800 bucks.
Not sure but I am still looking for more info so keep it comming if possible and I appreciate all the help and time you guys are taking to help me out here. So far today and yesterday I just learned quite a ton of stuff about building top ends because I screwed up a couple times but nothing that can't be fixed with a little time, money and elbow grease (or hair grease if ya got some).
The 347's get all the cubes from the increased stroke, the bore doesn't cause weakness in the block. If you want even better power, use a 351 block and stroke it to either 408 or 427. If gas mileage is a big consideration, then stick with the Windsor. I like my FE engines, but the fuel mileage is certainly not one of the reasons!!!
Ok I see. Yeah well I don't know about putting a different block in it. I plan to get a new and built C4 tranny with a 2300-2500 stall shift kit, etc. I went to a tranny shop next to the local speed shop here and a older guy that owned the place was pretty nice and talked to me about what he would do with it, etc. He has a drag racing background, etc so knows what he's talking about it seems. He was even nice enough to say that I can go and help/watch him put the tranny in my truck and all so I can see how to do it and learn. He said he will build a complete tranny with the stall, etc for around 500-650 bucks. That is building the tranny, taking my old one out and putting the new one in, hooking it all up and have it ready for me to just drive it straight home.
So basically what I am saying is, if I have all this stuff done to the motor and will have a new tranny in it already then not really a point for me to change it all out all over again.
You'd have much more fun with a toploader 4spd.Quote:
Originally posted by FMXhellraiser
Ok I see. Yeah well I don't know about putting a different block in it. I plan to get a new and built C4 tranny with a 2300-2500 stall shift kit, etc. I went to a tranny shop next to the local speed shop here and a older guy that owned the place was pretty nice and talked to me about what he would do with it, etc. He has a drag racing background, etc so knows what he's talking about it seems. He was even nice enough to say that I can go and help/watch him put the tranny in my truck and all so I can see how to do it and learn. He said he will build a complete tranny with the stall, etc for around 500-650 bucks. That is building the tranny, taking my old one out and putting the new one in, hooking it all up and have it ready for me to just drive it straight home.
So basically what I am saying is, if I have all this stuff done to the motor and will have a new tranny in it already then not really a point for me to change it all out all over again.
And even more fun with a Tremec 5 speed!!!!
Sounds like a good price on the C-4, the guy is obviously quite experienced in tranny building. The price for the work is certainly a good deal, I'd go for it!!!
The price on the C4 is a good price. I just had my C6 rebuilt, and built to the max. I went with a manual/automatic valve body, extra clutches, new 1800 rpm torque converter, stage-2 shift kit..... cost me a little over $900 (very reputable tranny builder). And, he's giving me a 24,000 mile gaurantee......even after seeing the engine it was going behind....my built and punched 400. He said he would make it fun for me, and oh my, it is fun. That automatic/manual valve body is sweet. No more kickdown linkages for me. It's like a standard tranny without the clutch.
Back to your 347 stroker, I believe Ford SVO has a crate 347 that puts out 450 HP and 400 ft-lbs torque, but costs around $6500, and I'm not even sure if it is complete..........ie, intake and exhaust (headers).... You will need the money to do one though. Most 347 kits start around $1000-$1500, and that won't include, your machining (block and heads) or any of your valve train components (the kits I've seen anyway).
What model C-4 do you have, if you have a post 69/70 there's where the fun begins with making it bump (chirp second, break necks,etc...) seriously if you have a 70 or above ask the guy building your tranny which servo you have now if you do not know. depending what servo you have can make or break your performance shifts. -Just trying to help a fellow Ford guy!
Hoss I don't know. The guy said right now all he has is a Core and that he can build the rest.... Is the core what your talking about? I don't know a thing about tranny's really.
If you look at the casing it should push in modulator valve or another way to tell is the vent but I cant be 100% sure if the '70 had the vent/umbrella on the top of the casing but pretty sure it didn't. The man should be able to tell what year it is. I heard from an older friend of mine that has been around that it is possible to put extra band in 3rd to promote a stronger/firmer shift to third by not slipping as it applies pressure to the bands. I love my C-4 after the top loader swap, more street performance.Good Luck!
If you're sticking with an auto, don't dismiss a built AOD. I run a C4 in my old Comet, but wish I'd had the foresight to go for an overdrive. You'll either pay on the bottom end or the top with a c4, depending on your rear end gears. With an AOD, you can have the best of both worlds.
My 2 cents...
Well I am not sure, I would like an AOD but I don't know which is better. I still wan't performance on this truck. I would rather have more performance than just a plain everyday driver. Like I have said before... I am still younge so of course I don't care as much about comfort and smooth power, I'd rather drive something loud, powerful and good looking, heh. Well all that is to an extent of course but you get what I mean. So what's the Pro's and Con's with the C4 and the AOD, anyone?
Thanks a whole lot again guys!
With The 460 u got a little bit more "fat" to drag around the corners too :rolleyes:.. My next engine is a 351W stroked to 408. No use for power if you got to stop before each turn on the road. Over here we got a lot of them turns :DQuote:
Originally posted by techinspector1
To me, it's a matter of return for the money. Yank the 302, bolt in a boneyard 460 and you'll have way more power for way less money. That's just how I look at things.
Yeah that is TRUE! I don't need a huge engine like that. Just takes more gas, more weight, etc. I'd rather keep the 302 and get about 50-100 more HP outta it if I can. All I have done to it anyways is the cam, whatever the aftermarket pistons that are in it, Edelbrock intake manifold, 500CFM edelbrock carb, air filter, then some dress up parts and a huge radiator now. In the next few weeks I am getting a C4 tranny and then after that my interior and wheels and tires too soon and then back to the engine work again!
I have been running a 347 stroker in my 1966 Mustang for several years now and couldn't be more satisified. I heard stories about them burning excessive oil but have seen zero oil consumption with mine. I see people telling you to go the Big Block route. Sorry, but you can't do that in a '66 without $2k worth of front suspention mods( remove shock towers, coil over spring conversion, etc.
Disregard my previous message, I just releaized you were speaking of a truck. I forget that there are other vechicles than Mustangs. Duhhhh...
Hey Lonnie - how did you build your stroker? Crate or did you piece it together? I'd love one in my Comet but can't really pop for a crate right now (I REALLY need to get that garage built!).
Not really a thread jack since this was the original question...:)
Thanks for the info. I have a book on how to build Big Inch Ford Small Blocks and it has a TON of different 347 stroker and 331 kits to use. The guy even put which ones to use on the street and which ones to use for race or race and strip both or ones that cant take nitrous and blower or one that can, etc. The kits they list are like 3 grand or more. There are a few in there that are 1300 bucks but they said they wont last as long.... :( I plan to stick with small block route though. I wont be doing it for a while though this motor still runs nice.
Tezz, I bought it as a stroker kit from Eagle. I have been bowled over by the increase in torque. When coupled with the 430 positraction 9" rear, i find that it will about lift the wheels with aggressive acceleration or pull stumps and move small buildings when used with mild acceleration. I will add some picts to the gallery. I don't know how you all add a picture to you profile on the left.
Tucker, go to "User CP" link at the top of the page here and there will be a thing that says to change or modify the Avatar. Press that and push browse. I think you need to have the picture sized down to like 45X50 or so. If you need help then ask me or send the picture to me through email and I will size it down for you.
One thing I forgot that I think will help lay down more power is posi traction. Someone said to try and get a detroit locker for my truck but not sure what kind since I know there are other kinds of lockers. It's my everyday driver but then again my hot rod project right now. When this thing is finished my 100% focus will be on my 48. I have about 4500 more bucks to put into this truck and then I will be done with it. Of course it will break still and need this and that but I mean I will be satisfied with the looks and performance and move on after this. A lot of people ask me what I have in it and I tell them it's a 302. Some like it and others think it's weird to have such a tiny motor in a huge heavy truck (well not a huge truck but you get what I mean). It does fine to me and heck they came with inline 6 300 motors so no difference. 347 with my new C4 built tranny would be real nice.
Thing I am wondering though is that I have a 500CFM 4 bbl edelbrock carb and a regular performer series intake... Will that be ok for the 347 do you think? I am hoping it will since I spend a lot of money and a ton of time getting this stuff. I will need new heads first since these 77LTD heads are crap and really tiny. New heads with bigger ports and polished, etc would be nice.
Thanks for the picture info. I went with World Products, Dart II cast iron heads and 2.02 ss Manley valves. I upped the ante quite a bit with a fairly radical Comp Cams roller cam with Hydrolic lifters.
I have an orginal 1966 3 duece intake. For performance I would have just as good or better with a big 4 barrel but after "the look". Men and small boys smile when they see it.
Can you calculate carb size by multipling 347CI /min by desired RPM to find how many Cubic Feet per minute the carb needs to flow? Does it come out 500 CFM?
I am not too sure on that one. Math is my least favorite or good subject.