352 2bbl vs 4bbl

Hello. I dont know donkey about motors. I am looking to buy a mid 60s f100 to learn things. so if this is too ignorant of a question for this board i appologize in advance.

main question. all 3 trucks (1965-1966) i will be looking at have their (said to be) original stock 352's in them. or close to stock.

from what i could find about the 352's (aside from most people here think they are not worth messing with) was the HP difference between the 2bbl and 4bbl versions is almost 80HP?

so - and nothing is too obvious here - what is the difference between the two? i realize they are more than likely all 2bbl (i have asked the owners, and no one knows) but obviously everything else equal i would buy a 4bbl over a 2.

if i wanted to convert a 2bbl to 4, would i change: exhaust, headers, manifold, carb? does it have to happen all at once? i mean, could you do exhaust and headers first, then manifold, carb later? can this be done without yanking the motor?

i have been looking at trucks pretty hard for a good while now, and nothing in that era truck ever pops up with anything above a 352 in it. i would be way more than happy with 325-350 hp, so i think the 352 is good for me. i am basically just looking to get my hands dirty, and learn what makes and engine run, and eventually really be able to understand them. but i want the truck to have some balls too. so if the 352 doesn't cut it, i would get a bigger FE and tear it apart and rebuild it, and swap when it was done. that is ultimately what i would like to do anyhow. but i want to start on the 352.

all 3 trucks have a 3 speed column shift. anything else to look out for motor wise when looking?

I really do appreciate it.

First off, welcome. As far as the additional HP of the 2BBL over the over the 4BBL versions of the engines in addition to the areas you mentioned, the 4BBL engines also often benefited from higher compression and a hotter cam.

The Ford FE engine series (which includes the 352) CAN be a pricey engine to build properly. If you eventually plan on building a bigger FE to eventually transplant into the truck and basically plan on using the 352 as practice, I would suggest you buy the truck that has the most solid engine in to begin with.

I can be well worth having a professional mechanic go ever the drive train, checking things like oil pressure, cooling and compression. Throwing speed parts on a tired old engine will be an exercise in frutility.

The external parts you buy can be transferred to the bigger engine when it comes time to build it……although you will probably want to upsize what ever cam you put in the 352.

A 352 will respond to a 4bbl and dual exhausts, either with headers or stock manifolds. An aftermarket aluminum manifold removes a lot of front end weight, the factory manifolds weigh a ton! Don't pass up a cheap one, though, they do work, and the truck is pretty heavy anyway.
If you have a 3 speed stick, a good swap is a four over from a mid-70's pickup. It fits the bellhousing, clutch, and driveshaft you already have, and is a 70% or so OD.

BTW, you should go to the 'Slick 60's" site for lots of info on your truck.

FEs are very cool engines..But they are probably the worst V8 on the planet to do an intake change in the car because of the design..If you are installing an iron intake you need two guys of a cherrypicker and more than likely the gasket will still leak when you're done...Not to mention that you must R+R the pushrods adn rocker arms to do the job.I would definitely go with an aluminum intake.They are also the worst exhaust manifolds/headers to deal with due to bolt breakage. When I first started out it was all FEs, the one good thing about them is that if you work on those, everything else is easier..

If your looking to buy/buildcustomize a mid 60s f100---but the truck that body and frame is in the best shape

You can then buy a 390/410/428 FE core engine with a 4barrel carb/manifold and rebuild it to put out from 300-400 hp economically

You can buy the engine for less than you;ll pay for a fender or seat

Welcome to the site!

This is a great place and there are no “dumb questions”. We sometimes check people’s attitude if the questions are asked incorrectly, but love to share our ideas. Several of the Ford guys on this site have blue ovals tattooed on their forehead and have forgotten more than I would ever know about these FE blocks but I have a bit of experience and exposure (vicariously through Ford friends mostly!)

I love those 60’s Ford trucks. I had a friend with a 65 F-100 that punched his 352 .090” over giving him +/- 370 cubic inches. He put on the Edelbrock 7105 with a 750 Holley, aftermarket cam (no idea – may have been from Comp Cams) and a set of Headman Hedders with 2-1/2 inch exhaust through Flowmaster 40’s and that thing really came to life. It was still Ford dependable and yet would just smoke the daylights out of the hole. He had a crossover pipe just at the transmission in the exhaust and that truck sounded like it had a 500 cubic inch monster in it!

The Edelbrock 7105 Intake Manifold RPM fits FE Ford 352-428. It is designed for “high performance” street use with an rpm band from 1500-6500 rpm. This manifold fits standard FE cylinder heads as well as Edelbrock Performer FE aluminum heads and 427 low and medium riser cylinder heads. It is a dual plane manifold that is advertised to “build low and mid range acceleration while optimized runner paths make exceptional top end horsepower.” It has a standard flange carburetor mounting pad (square bore) and will allow you to bolt up about any Holley or Edelbrock aftermarket carb.

You can run a lot of different carburetors from a 600 cfm Edelbrock to an 850 cfm Holley. As has already been noted – to remove the original cast iron intake will require a friend (or two) as it is a monster and a half. If it were me – I’d gunk the daylights out of the engine bay and pressure wash it before touching anything (remember to cover the distributer with a plastic bag and then wrap aluminum foil tightly around the plastic bag - Nothing worse than moisture in the distributer cap!) Changing the intake is an all day sucker as also noted – the pushrods run through the manifold (hmmm… now there’s an intelligent design!).

Headman Hedders - http://www.hedman.com/products makes a nice set of headers. Part number 89100. They’re dear ($400 plus!) but the quality is superb and they fit right the first time. They will not fit California trucks with emissions controlled heads, but as you’re in Florida, the trucks you’re looking at are probably okay.

Have fun and keep us informed.
Glenn

killer Glenn, thank you. thank you all. im pretty surprised at the willingness to help. checked out the slick 60s site. lots of good info there too.

i guess maybe i will think about keeping the 352 stock, and just rebuild another engine while i do the other stuff to the truck. then swap it in when i finish. i really want to drive it for a while first. i will take the 352 to a professional mechanic (uncle) who has his own shop and he can check it out for me.

i had planed on swapping tranny's - so i will keep an eye out for a 4 speed from a mid 70s truck. awesome.

Hey - we gotcha covered!

Welcome to the site - and to a great heavy Ford engine.

I've had many of the FE engines built but the 332 and find that they while can be a real bear to work on, are still a great way to go for any performance vehicle.

One of the downfall problems with these engines are the "silent timing gears" and stretchy chain. Change that out to a good double roller set up and that engine will run just fine - assuming the rest is in solid condition. Along with the other parts described above, will respond nicely. Of course cubic inches are still better:LOL::LOL:. Then there is the stuck distributor:CRY:, but we can talk about that when you get into the work.

That OEM intake - I believe it weighs 84 pounds, if my memory serves me right. You need to remove the hood and literally stand over the engine if you are working alone. A bunch of aspirin and a heating pad on your lower back will solve the pain problem.

The 352 has a standard cyl bore of 4.00" and a crank stroke of 3.50". In esscence that 352 block can be overbored to 4.05 (if it hasn't been already) which is the same bore as the 360 and 390 stock. Only difference being the 360 used the 352's 3.50" stroke crank and the 390 a longer stroke 3.78" crank. Same block, heads, intake etc.... can still be used. Down the road you can look for a 390 crank, rods and pistons. The 352 block can normally be overbored to 4.08 .030 without issue. Once you get past that you'd want to sonic map the walls for thickness. But there's nothing wrong with a good running 352. It's a very simple and well made engine once you learn some of the basics. The stock heads and intake will respond to a port match and run pretty darn well as is in stock trim. You can spend thousands on stroker kits, heads and intakes. But if all your looking for is a nice runner the 352 with a better cam and some headers will respond well. Easy way to remove the stock cast iron intake is with a engine hoist. As Dave said it's heavy. Save your back and let the tools do the work.

another truck just came on my radar. what do you think of this?

its local(ish). has a much better paint/body than the others(the others all NEED paint), and a 390 already in place. any thoughts on that truck? its about 1000 more than the others on the list. would it be easy to tell what kind of job he did on the camaro front end? generally speaking is that a good fit? thanks guys.

That Camaro clip( if properly installed) would be the best thing to ever happen to a twin I beam truck. The thing will actually handle now.390 is a good thing..Plus the disc brakes and power steering would be nice too..I would wonder if he has a rear sump pan to fit it in the clip..I would think the oil filter housing would not clear too well if it's a gen 2 camaro subframe.

I would ask him how he knows it's a 390. Unless he's been inside the engine it's anyone's guess. Just to cover yourself as it seems every 352-360 turns into a 390 on sale day. And he didn't post the VIN. You can measure the stroke easy nuff which I'd certainly request. A lot can change in some 40+ years. That's a pretty good chunk of change and you want to be sure it's what you want. Rest of the truck looks pretty nice. It's a solid $3k ride anyway.

I concur with the above - especially the Camaro clip. A number from the engine may be able to also settle the displacement issue.

Good luck on this one - it certainly has potential to be a sweet ride.

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Originally Posted by glennsexton

I concur with the above - especially the Camaro clip. A number from the engine may be able to also settle the displacement issue.

Good luck on this one - it certainly has potential to be a sweet ride.

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Numbers are no help on FE motors.. An external balance or a set of crossbolts helps but there's no easy way to determine a 390 over a 352.. I used to class race a 428 in L/SA because the tech guys were chevy guys and they saw the "352" on the front of the block:LOL:

Good point Daffy - the number on FE motors are a mystery lot

Nice looking though if you are interested, I for sure would spend some time under that truck looking at how well everything was put together, especially how the clip was welded into the existing frame. A shiny paint job can hide a multitude of sins. That paint job always seems to be a deterrent to crawling under a vehicle and maybe getting your hands dirty.

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Originally Posted by IC2

Nice looking though if you are interested, I for sure would spend some time under that truck looking at how well everything was put together, especially how the clip was welded into the existing frame. A shiny paint job can hide a multitude of sins. That paint job always seems to be a deterrent to crawling under a vehicle and maybe getting your hands dirty.

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I agree. It's a really nice looking truck for sure. Black paint shows off bad paint/body work making it pretty easy to see. Overall it's a sweet ride tho. Good luck and keep us posted.

i didnt buy the truck. those photos must be 10-15 years old. the body was in really decent shape overall, but there was rust coming through all the paint and from behind the trim. the trim was finished with clear silicon caulk. the bed cover's receiving snaps, were tech screwed into the body, all the way around the bed. bed was rusted out as normal, but wasnt disclosed in auction. everything was just jerry rigged.

the camaro front clip seemed to be installed very well. real good actually, from what i could tell. but when i took it for a spin, it was super jerky and bouncy for no reason. like it had square wheels.

motor looked/sounding good though. nice intake, carb, headers, and exhaust was welded nice.

regardless of condition i probably would not have bought the truck though. driving it required serious contortion of my leg....and the wheel was almost at my chest. i am only 5'11, but it was borderline unsafe feeling. i could not turn wheel a full rotation without taking my hand off the wheel because it was in my chest. seat and steering column were not original, but i couldn't see there being more room if they were.

Every time you go look at one you learn something else to look for on the next one.:)